Hey no I paid for CTA but I didn't have it... I had "laser thinning" and the web glottoplasty but only 1/3rd tied up...

I had no idea he was even doing just the web when I started all this...

I MIGHT still do a CTA with FFS IF I could guarantee exactly where the "low pass filter" kicked on Id set it at 135hz and be HAPPY... CTA is too unpredictable for me though... IF Dr Haben AND Dr Speigel said Id benefit from a CTA Id do it though.... Im working on getting both opinions now

I may never make it to youtube or even post my FFS pics here, Im OLD, (46)....

Eva, that's good to know.  Thanks for the info!  I wonder, can you still do really high squeaking?  Hertz is somewhat misleading the higher you go since it increases exponentially in terms of actual notes.

Warmbody, I can't wait to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing.  Dr. Haben sounds pretty reasonable so I'd be surprised if he didn't refund your money if you opt out of the CTA.

Quote from: kwala on February 11, 2015, 09:19:35 PM
Eva, that's good to know.  Thanks for the info!  I wonder, can you still do really high squeaking?  Hertz is somewhat misleading the higher you go since it increases exponentially in terms of actual notes.

Warmbody, I can't wait to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing.  Dr. Haben sounds pretty reasonable so I'd be surprised if he didn't refund your money if you opt out of the CTA.

Your welcome and I don't think he will refund anything since he's runing a business.  But I guess it's ok as long as I have good results . I can't wait to start posting videos 7 days post op

Seeing as other VFS folks (Yeson) who do a very similar procedure advise 1 year til the final voice, I'd wait at least 6-8 months before coming to any conclusions. Ballpark of 3 months is probably way too early.

Personally I'm starting to consider Dr. Haben since he is considerably closer to me than Yeson, and in recent months, as in your example, has been starting to demonstrate noteworthy work.

(Also my relaxed speaking is around 140hz and I'm mildly scared that Dr. Kim might crank me up too high.)

Quote from: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 01:44:15 PM
Seeing as other VFS folks (Yeson) who do a very similar procedure advise 1 year til the final voice, I'd wait at least 6-8 months before coming to any conclusions. Ballpark of 3 months is probably way too early.

Personally I'm starting to consider Dr. Haben since he is considerably closer to me than Yeson, and in recent months, as in your example, has been starting to demonstrate noteworthy work.

(Also my relaxed speaking is around 140hz and I'm mildly scared that Dr. Kim might crank me up too high.)

I would send an email to the link on Dr. Haben's page.  He replied to me personally after only a few days and answered my initial questions.  I'm still a ways away from actually having a consult but I feel more assured that he knows what he's doing after having a direct communication with him.

Quote from: kwala on February 11, 2015, 09:19:35 PM
Eva, that's good to know.  Thanks for the info!  I wonder, can you still do really high squeaking?  Hertz is somewhat misleading the higher you go since it increases exponentially in terms of actual notes.

Warmbody, I can't wait to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing.  Dr. Haben sounds pretty reasonable so I'd be surprised if he didn't refund your money if you opt out of the CTA.

Kwala at the moment NO I cant but I have kinda been able to... Its all kinda frustrating because it comes and goes... Sometimes its VERY good but mostly Im not happy with it... No matter how good it is though I can still go WAY too deep

Warmbody, Dr Haben told me he would have refunded my $$$ for the CTA OR do "laser thinning" which I had him do instead... He did say that would make for a longer recovery and it would slightly help increase pitch but mostly just make my voice "breathier"...

We didnt do a CTA at the time because I told him my next surgery was FFS... He said he couldn't guarantee what the incision/trach shave would look like after my face/neck lift...

Quote from: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 01:44:15 PM
Seeing as other VFS folks (Yeson) who do a very similar procedure advise 1 year til the final voice, I'd wait at least 6-8 months before coming to any conclusions. Ballpark of 3 months is probably way too early.

Personally I'm starting to consider Dr. Haben since he is considerably closer to me than Yeson, and in recent months, as in your example, has been starting to demonstrate noteworthy work.

(Also my relaxed speaking is around 140hz and I'm mildly scared that Dr. Kim might crank me up too high.)

I KNOW your right Rachel BUT Im just too damn IMPATIENT and like I said no matter how good I can talk in the female range (and I can pretty good usually) I can also go down way too deep as well

The CTA is VERY tempting....

Quote from: Eva on February 14, 2015, 07:22:52 PM
I KNOW your right Rachel BUT Im just too damn IMPATIENT and like I said no matter how good I can talk in the female range (and I can pretty good usually) I can also go down way too deep as well

The CTA is VERY tempting....

I wouldn't worry about the ability to "go really deep" as many women can as well as long as your comfortable speaking register remains in the female range.  I have a really good feeling that that's where you'll develop in time and even if you retain your lower register you'll probably forget all about it from lack of use

Quote from: kwala on February 14, 2015, 07:39:16 PM
I wouldn't worry about the ability to "go really deep" as many women can as well as long as your comfortable speaking register remains in the female range.  I have a really good feeling that that's where you'll develop in time and even if you retain your lower register you'll probably forget all about it from lack of use

This.

To clarify, it is not at all uncommon for a woman to be able to comfortably hit a C2 (135'ish hz.) I've heard plenty enough at 100hz or lower to consider it normal'ish, particularly "radio voice" ladies (Meg Griffin from the Loft on Sirius XM comes to mind) as well as those with Reinke's edema (the classic smoky, low voice.)

The more obvious thing is... you're critiquing your surgical outcome, before fully healed, when prosody (how you say things and shape sentences) and to a lesser extent resonance will at this point much more greatly influence how you're perceived now that you actually have a voice that, as you suggest, can more or less pass either way.

It's really how you can use your voice that determines what you need. In any case you likely still have swelling, and that will make your voice heavier/deeper with less range because of increased mass and decreased vibration. Also using the voice too much may have the potential to stretch things out - it's an anxious habit like picking scabs. It won't help things, and sadly this is the sort of thing where I think intuition is a bit necessary for knowing how much is too much or too little.

I wonder how many ladies here with good outcomes from VFS have truly been able to conjure a voice post-op that they could not access at all without training? Training does not necessarily mean lessons - talent can suffice.

Your right again of course Rachel... I just hear too much of the old voice in there and I wrongly assumed it would be totally different... I do hear from my Mom and my friends that its way better now but I guess Im not hearing it Id just like 2-3 notes higher but I worry about totally screwing it up with a CTA too...

Right now Im leaning towards just doing FFS and even skipping the trach shave... Mines not an issue at all now and I can always do it after FFS if I want it...

Im thinking full FFS will be brutal enough to recover from and I need to worry about getting through that more than my voice right now anyway

Quote from: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 01:44:15 PM
(Also my relaxed speaking is around 140hz and I'm mildly scared that Dr. Kim might crank me up too high.)

Haha, I am not alone then - But I know Dr Kim will hear your wishes and if you say you dont want to go too high, he will do it. Amy asked for that because of her desire to sing in a certain alto range and AFAIK he pretty much gave her that ability while still elevating her voice overall. But I am not sure how high is too high. I personally believe that such very high voices as I have now heard 2 from Yeson patients are solely caused by the VFS. I suspect that some way of using the new voice leads to that , especially in both cases it was desired by those in question that the voice is that really high. I think what we want to achive plays a huge role in what we get from the VFS. Those who did not dare to use a higher voice post op can actually still speak in a male range as well, even if it sounds in my ears a bit strained using the lowest end of their new voices, but if you are still not fulltime - well... I personally think its not a good idea to do VFS before going fulltime and then getting used to use the new voice in a wrong way due to that - which requires mental correction later on to re-train using the new voice properly.

I will talk to in person for my pre op consultation this Tuesday so I will ask him about the refun or the thinking thing your talking about. I'm not sure I need a CTA to be honest, I'm still young, don't smoke and my voice really isn't deep? Idk? Guess I will find out Tuesday? I am def excited though to say the least. Plus I would like to still be able to sing im my car on the way to work

I've been taught that even if your fundamental pitch is 220Hz or whatever, your habitual pitch (i.e. trained pitch) can be higher or lower.  When I first transitioned, my habitual speaking pitch was 10Hz lower than my tested natural pitch, as I had trained myself to speak more 'manly' to fit in.  So whatever increase you get doesn't necessarily mean you will sound like Minnie Mouse

Well I was finally able to get Dr Haben on the phone, he was on vacation.....
I tried sending him some recordings for him to analyze but he says he couldn't open them So I sent them again in a different format and I will get that compared to my pre op recording and find out the difference...

He says I should wait at least 6 months for the final, final result... He said there is a chance it could still increase dramatically... He uses a dissolvable stitch and he said it should be gone by now but it might not be...

He said I could do a CTA and it would definitely cut out the low end but he says there is no way to know where I will end up and it could end up way too high... He can also possibly tie the web shorter but he needs to see where its healed it right now... Im hoping to get Dr Speigel to take a picture for me to save me a trip out there to see him....

So Im leaning towards doing nothing at all, not even the trachea shave... Its not a problem for me right now and hopefully after my face/neck lift it wont be... I can always have that done later with SRS or body contouring or just as a single procedure if it becomes an issue but no one I know says I need it....

If after another 3 months or so Im still not happy and Im recovered enough from my FFS then I can decide on a CTA or my preference tying off more and making the web longer... It makes sense to wait because if I do the trach shave then later decide on a CTA Id have to have the original work redone and Id have two scars on my neck...

Of course it would be best if it would just go a bit higher on its own... Right now unfortunately its not too good... My "falsetto" is really weak though... When thats good, and it has been very good I can do a very good mixed voice at least... So Im really hoping it will just heal completely and end up a bit higher than my best so far... I think I could live with that... Its VERY disappointing to have it sound pretty good and then lose it

I think at that time, 3 months, it is normal to have good and bad voice days. I definitely would wait out the 6 months or even more (at Yeson they say up to 12 months) before calling it a verdict. so maybe it goes up a bit gets stronger - you will see and then you can still decide on what to do. Better like that than doing a double voice feminization now and in the end sounding like a mouse

Me and two others had our surgeries today. I'm going to start doing my updates and discuss the process as well as my detailed talks with the surgeon. Already know I'm coming back at 3 months for a fallow up as well.

Congrats and GOOD LUCK

thank you EVA

Eva i was wondering. for the removal  of your stitches did they just clip the ends or pull the blue stitch all the way out completely? you know when you went to see your primary care doctor?

Hey Hon, no I never had a CTA Im gonna be following progress to help make the decision on whether or not I want one... Id like my voice a bit higher, I can still go too deep with just the web surgery done