Oh ok. Well if you don't wanna get to low going back for his CTA is a good idea then. I can't go as low as I use to anymore. I feel like my voice still sounds like pooh right now because it's so early and im still learning it but people are saying it sounds better. Guess I will know in 7 weeks or so? I'm sure with your CTA you will be so much more happy

Hang in there!!! You have at least a month of it sounding really bad before its gonna get better... Even then you will have good and bad days too...  Its taking a long time to fully heal here and Im not real patient and I still don't always now how to use it either

Ill admit I didnt listen to your post op recording yet but thats mostly because Ive been really busy with FFS... Its also too early to worry about it or to tell your final result... BUT I completely understand how you feel wanting to know because Ive been through it with the web part anyway...

Now that my FFS is done I just have to let it all heal for a while then make a decision on doing more with my voice... The CTA is still in interesting option so you having had both are of particular interest to me

Take care and get well soon

Hey Eva,

I am in the process of deciding which of the two voice surgeons to go see for May. Based off what you have experienced so far, would you recommend Dr. Haben?

Thanks,
Melissa

Yes Id do it again but you should do your own research... He's pretty easy to get a hold of via the email link on his VFS web page... For me Id rather stay in the USA for what looks very similar but possibly not the same thing Yeson does for less $$$...

Quote from: Eva on March 05, 2015, 06:20:53 PM
Yes Id do it again but you should do your own research... He's pretty easy to get a hold of via the email link on his VFS web page... For me Id rather stay in the USA for what looks very similar but possibly not the same thing Yeson does for less $$$...

Thanks Eva. I have listened to many Yeson clips and the 2 that are available with Dr. Habens patients on his site (plus yours). I guess for me there isn't enough information either way that makes me overwhelmingly choose one over the other.

Cool thats why I put mine here I couldn't find ANYTHING at all online when I made my blind leap of faith so I figured Id put it here so there is at least something out there for those that don't want to go all the way to Korea....

Keep in mind I smoked for 31 years and my voice was pretty deep pre op... Ive never had voice training or therapy aside from what I could find online and just RLE... Im also still not happy with my results so far and Im considering my options to raise my pitch... I can do a CTA, make the web longer or possibly laser tuning.... Im leaning towards a CTA...

Very interesting thread. I was firmly convinced Kim was the only way to go but now I'm looking into Haben. I don't have a particularly low voice (not sure what range I'm in) and I've never smoked so I'm starting to think that I could go with Haben and stay in the US and probably have a good result. I'll keep watching this thread for more info.

How are you doing now, Eva?

Quote from: Wynternight on March 14, 2015, 07:05:20 PM
Very interesting thread. I was firmly convinced Kim was the only way to go but now I'm looking into Haben. I don't have a particularly low voice (not sure what range I'm in) and I've never smoked so I'm starting to think that I could go with Haben and stay in the US and probably have a good result. I'll keep watching this thread for more info.

How are you doing now, Eva?

I'm in the same boat.  Dr. Kim's work is incredible but Dr. Haben's results seem very comparable.  Living on the east coast in the US, saving all of the time and money with a simple one hour flight to Rochester (or even a five hour drive if I feel like it) is just too hard to ignore.  Big thanks to Eva and Warmbody for sharing their experiences.

Super useful all this information! Thanks!

As far as comparability Dr Haben with Dr Kim goes - what does Dr Haben say about singing, shouting, screaming, speaking loudly after the surgery? Prof Nawka in Berlin told me that all of this is impaired or should be avoided, Dr Kim said that once the healing is finished, after 2 months one can sing and after a year it should be ok to do all of this - we know from the experiences of others that some volume loss occurs though and that in some cases singing does not work out as well as hoped, i most cases it seems to be very good though. Since the techniques seem to differ quite a bit, I would be interested in that. I guess when it comes to normal daily speech alone, the results seem to be good in both cases.

Quote from: anjaq on March 15, 2015, 03:44:29 PM
As far as comparability Dr Haben with Dr Kim goes - what does Dr Haben say about singing, shouting, screaming, speaking loudly after the surgery? Prof Nawka in Berlin told me that all of this is impaired or should be avoided, Dr Kim said that once the healing is finished, after 2 months one can sing and after a year it should be ok to do all of this - we know from the experiences of others that some volume loss occurs though and that in some cases singing does not work out as well as hoped, i most cases it seems to be very good though. Since the techniques seem to differ quite a bit, I would be interested in that. I guess when it comes to normal daily speech alone, the results seem to be good in both cases.

In my emails, Dr. Haben has said that he has worked on many singers and that while there is an adjustment period getting comfortable with a new instrument, his patients have regained their singing abilities with "no complaints" after the healing process is completed.  I asked about a loss of volume in regards to shouting, and while I didn't get a totally clear answer, he seemed to think that this was a non-issue after full recovery.  If you read through the Q&A on his site he does go into a little more detail about the different procedures and combinations and their effects in regards to singing.  I  am planning the glottoplasty alone because it is the least invasive and, according to Dr. Haben, preserves more of the overall range for singing.  My voice is already quite high so I think the 7-8 semitones gained will be more than enough.

Edited to add: I seem to remember Abby saying that her singing voice never really came back and that she had lost some of her top register.  I haven't read a post from her in a long time and wonder if she was able to work through that...I hope so!  On the other hand, Amy has been able to sing again and J-Mi seems to be recording again so maybe it just depends.  Singing is a difficult thing to judge without hearing before and after clips.  If you couldn't sing before and didn't have a sense of pitch and rhythm, well...there's no surgery in the world that can fix that.  I have to imagine though, if you do possess those qualities that you will be able to sing again even if the register is somewhat different than what you were used to before.

Hi Warmbody,

How is your recovery going? I've been tracking this tread for a while but I seem to have missed your pre/post voice samples somehow or you never posted them to begin with? I'm considering going to Dr Haben this summer and I would be truly grateful if shared your results!

Many thanks in advance!

Quote from: Lunarain on March 15, 2015, 07:17:48 PM
Hi Warmbody,

How is your recovery going? I've been tracking this tread for a while but I seem to have missed your pre/post voice samples somehow or you never posted them to begin with? I'm considering going to Dr Haben this summer and I would be truly grateful if shared your results!

Many thanks in advance!

You should check out this thread instead:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,183384.0.html

Quote from: kwala on March 15, 2015, 07:28:53 PM
You should check out this thread instead:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,183384.0.html

I now see light at the end of the tunnel and I'm beyond grateful! I'm so happy I can't stand it!

I checked the homepage but it does not say anything about voice feminization and I did not found a FAQ.

I am sad that one does not hear some late updates of the ones who had been at Yeson a longer time ago, Jenny, Abby, Sarah - to hear what their experiences are in the long run.

Apparently one issue with some glottoplasty surgeons is, that they do not make the suture deep enough - a deep suture and permanent threads seem to improve the stability of the surgery, so that the suture cannot rip open when shouting and to avoid hoarseness and pitch instability. Maybe Dr Haben does that as well, the ones I heard of so far did not do that.

Quote from: anjaq on March 16, 2015, 05:00:59 AM
I checked the homepage but it does not say anything about voice feminization and I did not found a FAQ.

I am sad that one does not hear some late updates of the ones who had been at Yeson a longer time ago, Jenny, Abby, Sarah - to hear what their experiences are in the long run.

Apparently one issue with some glottoplasty surgeons is, that they do not make the suture deep enough - a deep suture and permanent threads seem to improve the stability of the surgery, so that the suture cannot rip open when shouting and to avoid hoarseness and pitch instability. Maybe Dr Haben does that as well, the ones I heard of so far did not do that.

http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx
For some reason there is not a direct link (or at least one that I could find) on his homepage.  That is a bit odd, but a simple Google search will get you there.  The FAQ is all the way at the bottom of the page.  I have no idea how deep he does the suture and he seems hesitant to compare his technique to Dr. Kim's.

Why is he hesistant? I mean, they seem to be relatively similar, so there should not be a need to hold back on that? Or does he have any new technique that he does not want to make public yet? I  know it was not really that easy to find out what Dr Kim does that makes his results better than that of the German surgeons I talked to - I guess in a way they also want to keep their patients coming to them - can't blame them for that in a way.

Before this turns ugly I just want to point out how great it is to have a CHOICE between two surgeons who don't do CTA and who have great results!  It wasn't 2 years ago that there was only one way to go if you didn't trust CTA to be safe enough. 

Bravo surgeons for advancing their art and opening their practice to include us.  I'm thrilled that we've gotten this far, hopefully this will result in even better and more convenient options for VFS all over the world!

You are right, ReDucks - I meant in no way to say that this is not a good choice. Part of why I am digging so much around about the differences is, that I try to convince my health insurance to pay for the procedure and possible this will end up before a judge, so I kind of am eager to prove that these new methods are indeed better then the previous glottoplasty results and better than a standalone CTA. The standpoint of the insurance is "this does not work anyways and if you still want to do it, you can do it with one of our contractors" (which have a self-admitted success rate of 30%). I dont really expect this to go through, but I still want to try. And it helps to know what the differences and details in the technique are. Just showing them some good examples does not convince them (I guess they believe I could have hand picked only the greatest results).

It kind of sucks that in this country you either get helped but have to get the suboptimal surgeries available in country (which often are even more expensive for the insurances than going abroad) , or you have money and can afford a proper surgery internationally. Admittedly this is still a better situation than in countries where insurance never ever pays anything because they dont believe that being transsexual is a sort of birth defect or health issue and not some psychological imaginary idea. But the result is that a lot of people here get rather bad results and everyone will warn you about voice surgery, because a lot of people are getting surgeries but expect the ones availabe locally to be ok and dont even look elsewhere or dismiss the idea because of financial issues.

Quote from: Wynternight on March 14, 2015, 07:05:20 PM
Very interesting thread. I was firmly convinced Kim was the only way to go but now I'm looking into Haben. I don't have a particularly low voice (not sure what range I'm in) and I've never smoked so I'm starting to think that I could go with Haben and stay in the US and probably have a good result. I'll keep watching this thread for more info.

How are you doing now, Eva?

Hi Im OK and Im getting by fine with my voice  From what I gather from my recordings and analysis I did gain 70-75hz at 4 months post op The problem for me is I started at 100hz so my voice is still more androgynous than feminine... This recording seems centered at about 170-175hz... I feel like since having this surgery the muscles I used to use to get my trained voice and control resonance have gotten lazy because I dont have to use them with so much intensity...

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Cd31AiHQud

For reference, my old voice.... I used to have to do a lot of practice and a lot of effort to get this voice... Its effortless now

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zL3oSchaQn