Hey Peeps,

Had a blood test and my T levels are still in the normal range for a male, and nothing we do can seem to bring it down. I have gone from a low dose of Spiro to the highest that is safe and recommended and it still stays normal. I just had a thought and wanted to know if anyone else knew anything about this, I have a HIGH Metabolism, like thorough the roof high. I have been around 115 all my adult life regardless of how much I eat.

Could the fact that I have such a high metabolism be causing the spiro to be much less effective? I just had this thought so can't bring it up to my GP till next visit.

Edit: Just to add I take both Estrace and Spiro Orally as for the life of me I can't figure out the subginual thing.

Spiro isn't the only anti androgen out there, even in the us where Androcur isn't sold there are things like Bicalutamide. If you and your doctor have a talk I am sure you can find something that works for you (or if not medication there is always an orchie for T reduction).

I imagine metabolism is a factor but probably not the only factor, people's bodies just seem to react differently, when I was first on spiro I was dizzy and tired and nearly passing out often, the after about 8 months on Bicalutamide I went to spiro again (it is so cheap) and had none of the issues I had the first time, so I feel there is a huge amount of variability in the reaction to this medication. 

Speaking as someone who is totally not a doctor I can't say that your metabolism would have an impact here. Mine is fairly high too and still responds to, what I presume is, a medium dose of Spiro. But definitely bring it up at your next medical appointment.

Quote from: Hikari on March 22, 2015, 02:09:02 AM
Spiro isn't the only anti androgen out there, even in the us where Androcur isn't sold there are things like Bicalutamide. If you and your doctor have a talk I am sure you can find something that works for you (or if not medication there is always an orchie for T reduction).

I will bring that up with him next time. I want a orchie however every surgeon I find that does them requires a Therapy Letter which I can't get as I just use a Informed Consent OB/GYN. (I went to therapy before, but had to stop as it simply costs to much and my work insurance won't cover *ANY* thing related to Transgender care.)

Quote from: Ms Grace on March 22, 2015, 02:15:00 AM
Speaking as someone who is totally not a doctor I can't say that your metabolism would have an impact here.

I agree...my metabolism is also through the roof,eat what I want when I want and as much as I want.
I did notice it that it took about seven months for noticing anything happened.that was only on low dose E,change of weather going into jeans,that now nearly don't fit. Going from 68 kg to 76kg in that time.im not a checker of things until I notice change of some sort,and all my life I've been 68 kilos.

Give it time

Hi Akegia,

I take my spiro oral (swallow) and I took my E under my toung when I was taking oral E.

Oral E has SHGB (sex hormone binding globulin) so free T is important to know. Total T is not the whole story.

I also take Finasteride which helps to block the making of DHT. The dose I am on blocks 89% of the DHT.

With a starting dose of Spiro and oral E high dose I had a T of between 20 to 36. I switched to intramuscular E (high dose) and my T is <20 (low as the test detects).

As others have said there are other approaches to lowering your T.

Wish I had a high metabolism

Do you wear tight panties?  There is a direct response between the position of the testes and sperm production.  Maybe it could help on you t too?  I was looking it up and came across this article too: http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm
Lower your zinc levels, things I didn't even know.  I'd read this and make sure you are not doing things to possibly be changing your e to t?  Dont want to alarm you, but after you break this hormone level thing, i hope you dont change your metabolism too.  For many of us, it is usually a struggle after that to control weight.  What id give to be 115lbs, id just be happy at 150;)  lastly, going back to the tight undies thing.  If by chance you do this, start slowly, don't try to make a tornaquete and an oven down there;)  you could in theory cause blood clots in your legs, which could lead to a stroke..  Good luck!

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on March 22, 2015, 07:07:54 AM
I switched to intramuscular E (high dose) and my T is <20 (low as the test detects).

Yes, intramuscular E is usually quite effective at significantly lowering T and that's another option you can discuss with your doctor without having to take Spiro. Also, GnRh agonists like Suprefact, Zoladex, Lupron. Best of luck.

Quote from: Cynobyte on March 22, 2015, 07:38:16 AM
Do you wear tight panties?  There is a direct response between the position of the testes and sperm production.  Maybe it could help on you t too?  I was looking it up and came across this article too: http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm
Lower your zinc levels, things I didn't even know.  I'd read this and make sure you are not doing things to possibly be changing your e to t?  Dont want to alarm you, but after you break this hormone level thing, i hope you dont change your metabolism too.  For many of us, it is usually a struggle after that to control weight.  What id give to be 115lbs, id just be happy at 150;)  lastly, going back to the tight undies thing.  If by chance you do this, start slowly, don't try to make a tornaquete and an oven down there;)  you could in theory cause blood clots in your legs, which could lead to a stroke..  Good luck!

Im a little skeptical of that website for increasing T. It suggested that increasing sexual arousal would raise T levels. I don't believe this is a true statement.

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on March 22, 2015, 07:07:54 AM
I switched to intramuscular E (high dose) and my T is <20 (low as the test detects).

I suppose I'll use this quote as well, I am on IM Estradiol Valerate, and Spiro (both from the beginning), at 9 months or just a week ago my T was 15.  It started at between 700 and 800.   Dani

I will inquire about going on Intramuscular Injections next time I am at my GP, The main reason I opted off of that to start with is I am very terrified of needles. Like to the point I will seize up and just black out

I fainted at my last blood test Friday and the one in September.

I fainted in September at my injection training. I redid the training 2 weeks later and almost fainted.

The 3rd injection I really had no issue. Also, one of the girls at group said she does her injections in  bed. I do that now, just as I go to bed. Not a problem injecting now and it there was I could just lay down.

Quote from: akegia on March 22, 2015, 11:15:53 AM
I will inquire about going on Intramuscular Injections next time I am at my GP, The main reason I opted off of that to start with is I am very terrified of needles. Like to the point I will seize up and just black out

I was too. VERY afraid, just like you.

Had a really good day, decided to go talk to my Endo. We did a new blood panel(don't have results yet), and we agreed to try Bicalutamide for two months(Thanks Hikari), we talked about getting off the pills and on to something else. He doesn't like Injectables, so he put me on Estradiol Patches.

So hopefully should start to see better results

Quote from: akegia on March 23, 2015, 01:59:22 PM
He doesn't like Injectables

Why?

I would say it's not metabolism. I'm also a pretty naturally skinny person and the Androcur killed my T very very quickly. I guess Spiro is weak compared to Androcur. I also read some posts here that said it can take a long while for Spiro to have an affect. Never tried Spiro though, for fear it would not go well with the high levels of potassium in my diet and also that I pee a lot even without Spiro, which is a diuretic.

Quote from: KayXo on March 23, 2015, 02:34:05 PM
Why?

He said the patches have been shown to have less complications and less possible side effects for higher risk individuals. I already have Heart, and blood pressure issues and they both run in my family so he opted for patches.

A study showed that injectables, similar to patches, in men with prostate cancer, did not lead to health complications such as thrombosis or cardiovascular problems. Is he aware of those studies? Patch, injectables both deliver estradiol directly into the blood.

Quote from: KayXo on March 24, 2015, 09:21:37 AM
A study showed that injectables, similar to patches, in men with prostate cancer, did not lead to health complications such as thrombosis or cardiovascular problems. Is he aware of those studies? Patch, injectables both deliver estradiol directly into the blood.

IDK, he probably is. I don't personally care that he opted for Patches over injectables as I am terrified of needles.

I was terrified too but thankfully, I did not let my fear get the best of me and it paid off...I'm doing quite well on injections. Better than on pills or patches.