Here's the story...

Basically, I just started adding my work friends from my new job onto my Facebook page. I've been working there for about 7 months now, and have by now become confident that not a single person knows that I'm transgender. Basically, on my Facebook page, I set up an elaborate friend-locking system so that only people I'm out as trans to can see my old pictures, trans*-related posts, or posts where people used my old name. But at the same time, I didn't feel comfortable only posting pictures where I look completely 100% feminine, or deleting all of the little personal "celebrations" about HRT milestones and hair growth milestones from the pictures where I do look feminine. So I left a few things up that might make someone curious... I left a couple of very androgynous pictures up from back in the fall of 2013, and left up a few references to HRT and hair growth even though I never outright talked about transition. And I just kind of hoped that people wouldn't ask questions.

Well, at work this week, someone did ask a question. He'd gotten curious and browsed some of my old pictures, and saw my old androgynous picture from when I first came out and only looked about half-feminine, and he was surprised, he asked me "so did your hair used to be short? Like, really short? I mean, I saw that old picture, and it doesn't even look like you." He asked me about it, and asked what I'd meant by HRT in my most recent profile picture where I mentioned "2 years on HRT as of today."

This is one of my best friends at work. He helped me find my current apartment that I'm living in. So I know there was no malintent there, he was just curious for curious's sake, it wasn't a judgmental tone.

I'd been debating for months what to do if someone asked me about why I looked a bit androgynous/guyish, and I'd kind of settled on explaining it as a "hormone imbalance that's made me look more masculine ever since I was a teenager," but I didn't think the time would ever come to decide on whether I'd use that explanation, or just tell the person outright that I was trans.

So here's what I said. "I've had a hormone imbalance since puberty." I hoped he'd leave it at that, but he inquired further. And fear got the better of me. So I said "Well, I had an excess level of masculine hormones in my body, and they caused me to basically go through a male puberty. So starting a couple of years ago I finally got it corrected, I started taking pills to balance them back out to normal female levels, and that's why I look so guyish in those old pictures."

"That must have been tough for a girl to go through. I can only imagine." He said.

"Yeah... no kidding. I got made fun of for it a lot. So basically I gave up on looking feminine at all because I was so tired of people making fun of me and so tired of feeling like a freak, and just decided to go for a butch look for all those years so that I wouldn't look so abnormal anymore. And that's why my hair was short."

"Butch as in... lesbian?"

"No, no... actually, I don't even know what my sexual orientation is."

So that was my conversation. And wow, I didn't realize how awful it would make me feel in retrospect. On the one hand, framing my gender dysphoria as if I was a girl going through a male puberty seemed to actually make him understand what it felt like to me even more. Is there any chance in hell he would have been that sympathetic if I'd just told him I'm trans? I don't know. The way I told it to him really did feel like the way it happened to me... I felt like a girl going through a male puberty against my will, and watching my potential youthful feminine beauty be destroyed by testosterone a little bit more every single year, until the point where I finally gave up and just admitted that I'd never be a girl, so I quit even trying.

But on the other hand, that wasn't really my motive for framing it this way. My motive was shame. And my motive was fear. I did it because I'm so scared of admitting to people that I'm trans. I'm so scared that they wouldn't like me, wouldn't accept me anymore, that the women would get standoffish around me, see me as a freak instead of just as a normal girl like they've been doing for the last 7 months. And hell, I wouldn't even admit that I was in a relationship with a girl for 6 years. Because I'm scared of the lesbian connotation too. I'm scared that the women would be afraid that I'm checking them out, would stop feeling comfortable around me... that was the motive... shame, fear, feeling embarrassed of who I am, embarrassed of my trans status, and embarrassed of the fact that I ever dated someone who, if they knew about it, might make them uncomfortable.

I have a lot of self-acceptance problems. I'm still hung up on all the things which make me "lesser" than cis women, and I hate every single aspect of my trans* status. I want so much to just be normal, and now it's basically leading me to lie to people's faces just in order to keep that illusion of normalcy going.

So where do you cross the line? On the one hand, I feel like I have a right to live my life as a normal person and not have to worry about other people's political biases about my very right to exist get in the way. I don't want my life of normalcy to change. But on the other hand, I'm disgracing the trans community. I'm not helping advance trans* rights, I'm just reinforcing the stupid heteronormative gender binary because I'm too much of a coward to admit that I'm anywhere on the LGBT spectrum, that I'm anything but a normal completely-socially-acceptable cis-heterosexual woman.

Is it okay to stretch the truth so that people won't judge me, or should I just tell the truth and learn to have confidence in who I am and demand respect instead of spending every moment being so damned scared of people seeing me as lesser or a freak or being standoffish around me just because of who I am?

ah yeah, shame. A constant monkey on many of our backs. I think you say what you need to say in order to stay safe and feel that you can maintain the respect of the people in your life. I know I did it for many years when I was post first transition attempt where I never mentioned it to new people I met. Problem was I was then always trying to keep the two halves of my life apart and there would always be people who came into my life who knew people who knew and I'd always be wondering if the'd been told. In some case yes, in some cases no, and as for others I still don't know. My point is it only gets more complicated from here on in - if you're going to persist with that story they you're going to have to remember it for future reference, because believe me, there will be a need. And what if someone you know on one side of the fence knows someone who knows someone on the other side of the fence? they'll make the connection eventually, that's the way Facebook works. So no, I don't think you've crossed a boundary but you have now embarked on what is likely to be an increasingly complicated juggling act. Having done it myself I know it is no fun at all.

I really don't think you should feel ashamed about trying to maintain the "normal" life you've built for yourself any more than you should feel ashamed about being trans.

I do the same and don't tell anyone unless we're really close. There are plenty of the "in your face" type of TGs to handle the task of activism by making those around them uncomfortable, all while claiming its for a cause larger than themselves and not in pursuit of attention.

For some, I'm sure that's true....and for some it isn't. To each their own, but don't let them drag you down if it's not something you're into.

Good luck!

Hi Carrie, I'm the reverse of you as I'm trying to say in the closet. I have come up with so many stories, like I have an enlarged prostate and need to get rid of this due to family history (not true) so I take Fincar, thus great hair and body changes. They google this and are satisfied. Now the changes are getting out of control and staying in the closet is raising eyebrows....I need to be a male for w while longer and considering some unusual options but NO cutting my hair or stop weraing in style clothing.

Shame.

The anchor that drags us to the depth of a lie.

why?

Lets think what you have to be ashamed off?

You say and endocrine problem. OK.

You could use intersex (wrong, unless you are).

Maybe you are a woman?


I have a lot of self-acceptance problems. I'm still hung up on all the things which make me "lesser" than cis women, and I hate every single aspect of my trans* status. I want so much to just be normal, and now it's basically leading me to lie to people's faces just in order to keep that illusion of normalcy going.

Why are you lesser than a ciswoman? Whatever that is, I have never met a normal woman; we are all different and wonderful.

Honey you are normal. We are normal. You are transgender - so what?


"That must have been tough for a girl to go through. I can only imagine." He said.

I think he accepts you. maybe just say, thank you, I'm having a tough time.

It is what women say.

Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2015, 02:43:46 AM
Why are you lesser than a ciswoman? Whatever that is, I have never met a normal woman; we are all different and wonderful.

Honey you are normal. We are normal. You are transgender - so what?

I think he accepts you. maybe just say, thank you, I'm having a tough time.
It is what women say.

Cindy`s observations are sage indeed.

I`ve seen your great YouTube vid.: "My Body...2 year HRT Upadate (MtF)" and {honestly} all I saw and heard on it, is a beautiful, feminine young woman......and that`s what everyone else sees and hears!

Carrie, please trust us!.........Comparisons to 'others' are not necessary (and cause you completely needless pain); because you are you! a unique, feminine and lovely young woman.

Kindest,
Deb. 

Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 06, 2015, 02:01:37 AM
So where do you cross the line? On the one hand, I feel like I have a right to live my life as a normal person and not have to worry about other people's political biases about my very right to exist get in the way. I don't want my life of normalcy to change. But on the other hand, I'm disgracing the trans community. I'm not helping advance trans* rights, I'm just reinforcing the stupid heteronormative gender binary because I'm too much of a coward to admit that I'm anywhere on the LGBT spectrum, that I'm anything but a normal completely-socially-acceptable cis-heterosexual woman.

Is it okay to stretch the truth so that people won't judge me, or should I just tell the truth and learn to have confidence in who I am and demand respect instead of spending every moment being so damned scared of people seeing me as lesser or a freak or being standoffish around me just because of who I am?

IMO, stealth is essentially a lie. I'm not saying it's wrong or no one should do it, but when you go into stealth, you need to resign yourself to the fact that you are reconstructing a significant portion of your life as an illusion. As long as you never get close to anyone, it won't be a big deal.

But as you start making closer friends, they'll want to know more about your life, right? Your history, your background, and what made you into you. At that point you can either deny them any information (in which case you will be limited in how close your friendships are), lie, or break stealth. Lying is not, IMO, a moral absolute. There are some occasions when it's fine to lie, and others when it's a betrayal. Only you can decide how much of the truth you owe a given human being. But ethical or not, lying is a risk. There's always the possibility someone will find out you lied, or at best allowed them to believe something about you that is not true, and will feel horribly betrayed. Powerful friendships have fallen for less.

True stealth is a lonely existence. I, for one, do not have the stomach for it.

It's a tight-rope walk between how close you get to people, and how much you want to let them in. You never have any obligation to reveal information that you consider private, or personal about yourself to another, and when cornered, often the only thing to do is lie, or give half-truths.

The closer you let people get though, and the more difficult it becomes to hide personal things about yourself.

Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2015, 02:43:46 AM
Shame.

The anchor that drags us to the depth of a lie.

why?

Lets think what you have to be ashamed off?

You say and endocrine problem. OK.

You could use intersex (wrong, unless you are).

Maybe you are a woman?


Why are you lesser than a ciswoman? Whatever that is, I have never met a normal woman; we are all different and wonderful.

Honey you are normal. We are normal. You are transgender - so what?

I know I'm not. (Even though I kinda have internalized that mindset.) The problem is, I'm afraid that nobody else does. Like, having gone through it, I know that one's gender identity and one's sexual orientation are so freaking subjective and trivial that it's ridiculous. But I know that other people don't see it that way, I'm afraid that they'd see it as "does that mean you're actually a MAN?" and I'm so scared of that reaction, and again, I don't want my very right to exist becoming a matter of someone's political beliefs and preconcieved notions about trans* people. And I'm not a very strong-willed person. I depend heavily on the approval of others to feel good about myself. So I really don't want to have to be the one who goes through the hassle of educating them and changing their views.

You said what you needed to in order to stay safe. It's true you stretched the truth, but when you think about it that is how we actually view it. In our minds that is exactly how it is and so as far as were concerned that is the truth. In regards to my facebook page, I started a completely different one eventually discarded the old one. As a result, I have some people who don't know I'm trans on my new page. I would handle it the same way as you did. I've actually started to explain to people from that point of view instead how I came out to many in the first. The key is do what you need to in order to feel comfortable and be safe at the same time. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 06, 2015, 02:01:37 AM
Here's the story...

Basically, I just started adding my work friends from my new job onto my Facebook page. I've been working there for about 7 months now, and have by now become confident that not a single person knows that I'm transgender. Basically, on my Facebook page, I set up an elaborate friend-locking system so that only people I'm out as trans to can see my old pictures, trans*-related posts, or posts where people used my old name. But at the same time, I didn't feel comfortable only posting pictures where I look completely 100% feminine, or deleting all of the little personal "celebrations" about HRT milestones and hair growth milestones from the pictures where I do look feminine. So I left a few things up that might make someone curious... I left a couple of very androgynous pictures up from back in the fall of 2013, and left up a few references to HRT and hair growth even though I never outright talked about transition. And I just kind of hoped that people wouldn't ask questions.

Well, at work this week, someone did ask a question. He'd gotten curious and browsed some of my old pictures, and saw my old androgynous picture from when I first came out and only looked about half-feminine, and he was surprised, he asked me "so did your hair used to be short? Like, really short? I mean, I saw that old picture, and it doesn't even look like you." He asked me about it, and asked what I'd meant by HRT in my most recent profile picture where I mentioned "2 years on HRT as of today."

This is one of my best friends at work. He helped me find my current apartment that I'm living in. So I know there was no malintent there, he was just curious for curious's sake, it wasn't a judgmental tone.

I'd been debating for months what to do if someone asked me about why I looked a bit androgynous/guyish, and I'd kind of settled on explaining it as a "hormone imbalance that's made me look more masculine ever since I was a teenager," but I didn't think the time would ever come to decide on whether I'd use that explanation, or just tell the person outright that I was trans.

So here's what I said. "I've had a hormone imbalance since puberty." I hoped he'd leave it at that, but he inquired further. And fear got the better of me. So I said "Well, I had an excess level of masculine hormones in my body, and they caused me to basically go through a male puberty. So starting a couple of years ago I finally got it corrected, I started taking pills to balance them back out to normal female levels, and that's why I look so guyish in those old pictures."

"That must have been tough for a girl to go through. I can only imagine." He said.

"Yeah... no kidding. I got made fun of for it a lot. So basically I gave up on looking feminine at all because I was so tired of people making fun of me and so tired of feeling like a freak, and just decided to go for a butch look for all those years so that I wouldn't look so abnormal anymore. And that's why my hair was short."

"Butch as in... lesbian?"

"No, no... actually, I don't even know what my sexual orientation is."

So that was my conversation. And wow, I didn't realize how awful it would make me feel in retrospect. On the one hand, framing my gender dysphoria as if I was a girl going through a male puberty seemed to actually make him understand what it felt like to me even more. Is there any chance in hell he would have been that sympathetic if I'd just told him I'm trans? I don't know. The way I told it to him really did feel like the way it happened to me... I felt like a girl going through a male puberty against my will, and watching my potential youthful feminine beauty be destroyed by testosterone a little bit more every single year, until the point where I finally gave up and just admitted that I'd never be a girl, so I quit even trying.

But on the other hand, that wasn't really my motive for framing it this way. My motive was shame. And my motive was fear. I did it because I'm so scared of admitting to people that I'm trans. I'm so scared that they wouldn't like me, wouldn't accept me anymore, that the women would get standoffish around me, see me as a freak instead of just as a normal girl like they've been doing for the last 7 months. And hell, I wouldn't even admit that I was in a relationship with a girl for 6 years. Because I'm scared of the lesbian connotation too. I'm scared that the women would be afraid that I'm checking them out, would stop feeling comfortable around me... that was the motive... shame, fear, feeling embarrassed of who I am, embarrassed of my trans status, and embarrassed of the fact that I ever dated someone who, if they knew about it, might make them uncomfortable.

I have a lot of self-acceptance problems. I'm still hung up on all the things which make me "lesser" than cis women, and I hate every single aspect of my trans* status. I want so much to just be normal, and now it's basically leading me to lie to people's faces just in order to keep that illusion of normalcy going.

So where do you cross the line? On the one hand, I feel like I have a right to live my life as a normal person and not have to worry about other people's political biases about my very right to exist get in the way. I don't want my life of normalcy to change. But on the other hand, I'm disgracing the trans community. I'm not helping advance trans* rights, I'm just reinforcing the stupid heteronormative gender binary because I'm too much of a coward to admit that I'm anywhere on the LGBT spectrum, that I'm anything but a normal completely-socially-acceptable cis-heterosexual woman.

Is it okay to stretch the truth so that people won't judge me, or should I just tell the truth and learn to have confidence in who I am and demand respect instead of spending every moment being so damned scared of people seeing me as lesser or a freak or being standoffish around me just because of who I am?

QuoteIs it okay to stretch the truth so that people won't judge me, or should I just tell the truth and learn to have confidence in who I am and demand respect instead of spending every moment being so damned scared of people seeing me as lesser or a freak or being standoffish around me just because of who I am?

The judgements of other people cannot (for the most part) hurt you. There's no reason to be afraid of them...and those who can hurt you (i.e., employers) have their own fears of legal ramifications.

For myself, secrets based on fear are bad. I do like the "I had a hormonal imbalance since I was a child" (which is a true statement, in a manner of speaking), but further questions would be answered with, "I'd rather not continue this discussion, it's a bit personal."

If he's a good friend, he'll respect that you'll come out when you're ready--and if YOU want to.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 06, 2015, 10:23:32 AM
The judgements of other people cannot (for the most part) hurt you. There's no reason to be afraid of them...and those who can hurt you (i.e., employers) have their own fears of legal ramifications.

In my case, they could hurt me. I have so many problems accepting myself as female. My mind is a bully. It's constantly reminding me of all of the ways that I don't look "female enough" or sound "female enough" or act "female enough." So I'm really dependent on other people treating me like a girl to get my self-critical mind to shut up and leave me alone. So being treated like a girl by people, all of the little "girl talks" I have with my female friends at work, those are the things that remind me that I don't look as bad as I think I do, remind me that I really am normal. If they stopped treating me that way, started treating me standoffishly because they knew I was trans, I don't know what I'd do. I'd have lost the confirmation that keeps me going, and keeps me able to get the self-critical voices in my head to shut up.

Carrie, I think you equate being dishonest with being morally wrong, and its not always the case. Sometimes right and wrong are not at all clear. If you lied to save someones life, that's good not bad. If you lied to save you own? If you lied because of shame and fear that you lack the strength overcome, well what else can you do? Its not ideal, but its also not like you're going out of your way to hurt people.

There should be no shame in being transgender. I say should, because we can't simply wish it away. You didn't choose to be transgender, and there's no harm to anyone in it. If you had cancer, asthma, or almost anything else, you'd not feel shame. It's imposed from outside, by society, and its very difficult to dig it out. It's society that should be ashamed for how they treat transgender people, and perhaps one day people will look back and say how primitive those times were. I don't know how you can stop feeling it, but recognizing that there's no basis for it is probably a good start.

I don't much like being transgender, but luckily I don't think I've felt shame for it. I've been awkward and embarrassed far to many times, but I'm coming to terms with that. The first time I spoke to a gender therapist springs to mind, but I can talk to medical people easily now, if I choose to. I think its just practice, and the experience of doing it tells my emotional side what my logical side already knew.

It sounds like you fear others opinion of you rather than that they will actually hurt you. Any one who thinks badly of you for being transgender is not worthy of your respect, and why fear their opinion when its worthless. Like shame, its easier said than done, but I cant help but think of people like Cindy and envy the freedom they now have - and it probably wasn't easy for them either. I don't know how you can overcome it, but I think it is a goal that's well worth working towards.

I've not experienced social transition, but I've a strong feeling that the longer we leave things the more difficult it makes them. The usual "if only I'd done this sooner", and if only I had. I'm hiding, although in a different way, and getting increasingly uneasy about it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about having a lifetime of secrets in front of me.

I don't really understand how you're disgracing the transgender community or why its an issue even if you did. I don't think you're doing anything unusual, and you should worry about the community after you'd taken care of yourself. You won't be in any fit condition to help others if you don't care for yourself, and by caring for yourself you'll learn how to help others. None of us are saints to judge you, and if we were I'm sure you'd be forgiven for being only human.

Forgive yourself and try to get better.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 06, 2015, 02:01:37 AM
So here's what I said. "I've had a hormone imbalance since puberty." I hoped he'd leave it at that, but he inquired further. And fear got the better of me. So I said "Well, I had an excess level of masculine hormones in my body, and they caused me to basically go through a male puberty. So starting a couple of years ago I finally got it corrected, I started taking pills to balance them back out to normal female levels, and that's why I look so guyish in those old pictures."

"That must have been tough for a girl to go through. I can only imagine." He said.

"Yeah... no kidding. I got made fun of for it a lot. So basically I gave up on looking feminine at all because I was so tired of people making fun of me and so tired of feeling like a freak, and just decided to go for a butch look for all those years so that I wouldn't look so abnormal anymore. And that's why my hair was short."

I wouldn't have gone that far.

However my GD is treated as an endocrine disorder which is correct more or less.

Carrie,
I've gone back and forth on this one as to whether or not I had anything to offer.  My life has been one of anger, doubt, kicking myself at every possible moment, loathed my self image, and detested my lack of social skills.  I piled problem onto prolem because it offered the relief from focusing on any real solution.  When I got myself clean and sober 33 years later I was just a shell with nothing inside, so I used others to complete who I was.  I did this by pleasing, agreeing, conforming, lies, everything that seemed to give that immediate "in the moment" fix, and allow me to get on to the next.

At some point, I think it was about my 10th year I began to realize many of these people that I had spent such a huge amount of energy on, did NOT have what I thought to be qualities I wanted.  For me this was big, because I finally realized I had my OWN qualities, they just needed to be brought to light, looked at, tweaked a bit, polished, and then be USED.

Being true to myself, listening to that new little voice inside that said BE YOURSELF was my lifetime aha moment, second only to discovering my gender situation and the decision to use these very same principles, and be ME.

At night in bed, or those times looking in the mirror, or whenever, I can think:  They may not be happy, but I AM.   Dani

Some words in all caps because these were really important words to myself, I hope this helps.

Personally, I avoid letting anybody know because they appear to then see the side of me that I don't want to stand out. They'll start making more comments (from my experience) about how this or that shows that i "used to be female" and all that (FTM).
So it gets uncomfortable. If there's no point for somebody to know, I don't let them know. But I still avoid talking about old experiences because of that, I don't want to have to feel like I'm lying in order to preserve stealth, but I'll do it if I need to.

Shame is a weird beast.  It's an emotion that I denied as a man... that I didn't understand in others around me... and that I've started to accept and recognize in my present and past.  Yelling at somebody who threatens us is an action motivated by fear.  Crying, motivated by sorrow.  Hugging a friend, motivated by joy.  Actions motivated by emotions are okay, and it's good to put them on a level playing field.  A right action motivated by a particular emotion is still a right action.  It's good to consider the emotion, where it comes from, what it can do for you.

Unfortunately, shame is a spiralling emotion.  It sounds like you're ashamed about your shame!  That is okay, because that's how shame works.  Your "cover story" is beautiful.  It rings true to me.  You did a very prudent thing in not revealing everything to your friend.  It sounds like it was motivated in part by shame... but shame itself is motivated by our perception of how others will react to us.  In your place of work... that can be the difference between putting food on the table and not... shame is a very healthy emotion.  Sucks that it's a painful emotion... but that's how our body warns us of danger.

QuoteI have so many problems accepting myself as female.

Perhaps it's time to start working with a counselor so you learn how to accept yourself without having to depend on what other people say?    Hugs.

Being "Stealth" is being dishonest. No two ways around that. As Suzi said, lying sometimes is necessary.

Being stealth means erasing your past. It seems to me that you at some level want to be out. Otherwise why go through all you did to "scrub" the past, but left some cookie crumbs for anyone to see and entice their curiosity. All while trusting Facebook to not make some change which undoes all your measures to keep your past while hiding it.