Quote from: Katelyn on March 24, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
Well, what happens if you born and accepted yourself as male based on your exterior at first, but then through self discovery, you find more and more that your actually like the opposite gender rather than the gender you born in?  And this incongruity thus gives you stress and feelings like your in the wrong gender group, and body as well?  And that staying in your gender group is akin to being in a straight jacket, or being slowly suffocated, because you aren't in an environment that you can freely express yourself?  And then you have to see people of the opposite sex having the same traits as you and being able to live freely, as you silently suffer in an invisible prison created by your own body?  That's kind of like me.

Like you, I don't have a strong sense of gender inside, but the way I want to be, the way that I found myself to be naturally, is largely female.  I may be more gender fluid in the sense that even though many times I don't feel a strong sense of gender, depending on how I express myself I do "feel" the gender, like when I am dressed as female or talk in my female voice for awhile, I do feel strongly female and easily able to identify as female, whereas if conditions are right, I do feel strongly male and "guyish", even though it's temporary, but it only goes to an extent (doesn't transfer over to liking my body or liking to "bang a chick" for instance) and within time (a day to a week) I feel the dysphoria again, and it gets more intense if I have to stay acting like a straight male.  Staying closer to the androgynous territory for me has helped me with my dysphoria, but it probably has kept the "critical mass" from happening to me (where I'd run away from my life and desperately seek to transition) compared to if I still had to pretend that I was a straight male.

If by seeing myself as opposite gender means I see myself behaving and feeling the same way as those who identify as the opposite gender, then in that case, I would go see a shrink as I am one of the last person to believe that there is fundamental psychological differences between members of the sexes/gender and I already came to the conclusion that they do not act all that differently at all after trying to see behavioral differences for years. Here where I'm at, once again, gender roles are dead and no one cares about how you act, and neither there is so much of a difference in the way that males and females act.

Quote from: Reptillian on March 23, 2015, 10:15:04 AM
Gender roles isn't as important as it once was and we can already see that through changing thoughts on the roles of women as well as the pay-rate though I must add that sexism is still a issue to this very day, but it's not as big as it once was. In here, where I'm at, the only thing they seem to enforce regarding genders are what clothes to wear.

Quote from: Reptillian on March 25, 2015, 10:29:55 AM
Here where I'm at, once again, gender roles are dead and no one cares about how you act, and neither there is so much of a difference in the way that males and females act.

If you mean archetypal gender roles like what professions to choose, how much someone gets paid, how to divide household and parenting duties, etc then maybe yes, these are reducing in importance but not fully dead. And yet some of them are strictly enforced such as what to wear, as you yourself said.

But there are psychological differences which can be attributed to body parts, as you said, and they are very much real. And the mismatch resulting from that is what most people on this site go through, else we wouldn't be here in the first place. It is difficult if not impossible to imagine unless one goes through it themselves. And then it spills over into social dysphoria too, not just physical, because even if gender roles are becoming less important for cis folk, they suddenly seem to crop up with a vengeance if one wants to 'cross the gender divide'.

Quote from: Reptillian on March 25, 2015, 10:29:55 AM
I am one of the last person to believe that there is fundamental psychological differences between members of the sexes/gender

Quote from: Reptillian on March 25, 2015, 10:29:55 AM
I already came to the conclusion that they do not act all that differently at all.
neither there is so much of a difference in the way that males and females act.

Also, I hope you realize that these two are slightly different positions to take.

The first quote says that there are no fundamental psychological differences between genders which is an absolutist position, which can easily be carried over to say that there is no such thing as transgender, that there is no such thing as an internal gender identity and that gender is purely socially constructed. Many people, including famous psychologists, psychiatrists and even feminist activists believed this for years, and many still do despite evidence to the contrary. It is also funny that especially when this thinking was applied to denying the right of transgenders to even exist, they found themselves in agreement with precisely the same patriarchal nut-jobs who were otherwise quite happy with upholding traditional gender roles that oppressed women.

The second quote is a more nuanced position, that there is 'not much of a difference', which may be true. Not just behavior, but even all those theories about men being better at one skill v/s women being better at another etc may be quite exaggerated, if not completely false.

Quote from: cindy16 on March 25, 2015, 10:51:42 AM
If you mean archetypal gender roles like what professions to choose, how much someone gets paid, how to divide household and parenting duties, etc then maybe yes, these are reducing in importance but not fully dead. And yet some of them are strictly enforced such as what to wear, as you yourself said.

That's the sad thing about society today is that they still enforces things like this when it should have went irrelevant a while ago, and while there's less support for gender differences in the modern society, a lot of places still heavily enforces gender roles or what members of gender are suppose to wear (clothes are not gender roles).

Quote from: cindy16 on March 25, 2015, 10:51:42 AMBut there are psychological differences which can be attributed to body parts, as you said, and they are very much real. And the mismatch resulting from that is what most people on this site go through, else we wouldn't be here in the first place. It is difficult if not impossible to imagine unless one goes through it themselves. And then it spills over into social dysphoria too, not just physical, because even if gender roles are becoming less important for cis folk, they suddenly seem to crop up with a vengeance if one wants to 'cross the gender divide'.

At first, I thought it would make sense regarding psychological differences being attributed to how apparent are certain body parts, but then I realize that a lot of that has to do with society's belief, and how they treat them. Saying that there are psychological differences between members of sexes/gender isn't enough for me to support the idea that females and males are different (I have yet to see a convincing case that there is fundamental psychological difference between the sexes/gender that can't be attributed to society), and even if gender roles are vanished, there are still going to be people who are transgender much in the same way that there are people out there who thinks they're too skinny or fat when in reality, their body is fat or skinny when compared to others. My point is that there is always going to be people out there who thinks their own body is not what they should be regardless of what society tells them, and gender is no different.

Quote from: cindy16 on March 25, 2015, 11:11:53 AM
Also, I hope you realize that these two are slightly different positions to take.

The first quote says that there are no fundamental psychological differences between genders which is an absolutist position, which can easily be carried over to say that there is no such thing as transgender, that there is no such thing as an internal gender identity and that gender is purely socially constructed. Many people, including famous psychologists, psychiatrists and even feminist activists believed this for years, and many still do despite evidence to the contrary. It is also funny that especially when this thinking was applied to denying the right of transgenders to even exist, they found themselves in agreement with precisely the same patriarchal nut-jobs who were otherwise quite happy with upholding traditional gender roles that oppressed women.

The second quote is a more nuanced position, that there is 'not much of a difference', which may be true. Not just behavior, but even all those theories about men being better at one skill v/s women being better at another etc may be quite exaggerated, if not completely false.

While, yes it can be carried to that being no such thing as transgender, one must note that psychology is not the same thing as neurology, and with that line of reasoning, there being no fundamental psychological differences does not translate to there being no conditions in the brain that exists to one being transgender meaning that gender can still exist even if there is no fundamental difference. Regarding evidences, there are things like Reis and Carothers study, and there are other studies that have evidence contrary to that study, and the thing is that we can't eliminate social factors as a whole and we can't eliminate biology which means we can't get into a proper conclusion of what reality is really is. 

Quote from: Reptillian on March 25, 2015, 11:23:52 AM
there being no fundamental psychological differences does not translate to there being no conditions in the brain that exists to one being transgender meaning that gender can still exist even if there is no fundamental difference. 

As long as one is aware of these nuances, it's fine.

hmm... Exact same clothing and exact same social roles in society. I don't care if If everyone has to wear ratty jeans and a  Duck Dynasty T-shirt, I would prefer to do it with a female body.

I am in a belief there is a difference between male and female psychology.

Why do I say that is we learn by experiences and it is proven that females have a better sense of smell, see colors more vivid and lets face it CIS have to learn to deal with the period. Take the first 2 at least and think if one sees the world in a different light then they will also come to different conclusions and therefor react to certain situations in a different way. Which would then mean they do in fact think a little differently but being both intelligent and human well not that different as to be alien. From what I have read the brain structure is a little different as well which also changes the way we think. What made Einstien so smart well his bridges between both sides of his brain was very small so he could think more efficiently. Of course there are similarities yet there is also differences even if subtle does add up to yup different in general.

One general example comes to mind the does have a high tendency to be accurate is the male response to physical threat is to attack the female response is to run aka fight or flight concept. Oddly I think if it was a verbal threat it has a higher chance of it doesn't really matter the gender which goes to show some things are a little different but have to look at the sum of it all.

Perhaps and this is just my theory of course is why some are transgender and some are not is that those who view themselves as transgender find something in themselves that is not right in some way not overly explainable and wish to align themselves accordingly. Perhaps a greater self awareness then most to certain aspects of themselves and their surroundings and an imbalance with surroundings. Of course with the something not right pertaining to fit in with what we are taught by society as to what is and is not for one or the other gender. A big but is that is the logical explanation then there is the spiritual/emotional/soul aspect that is not logical but rather irrational and not really easy to convey in words.

If there Is no difference in that aspect then I ask this what is the difference between a mean and nice person is there really no difference well of course there is. So why could there not be a difference between genders or a mix of such as the mean/nice person idea. There are after all very nice people and people that are indifferent and some down right nasty. Gender is one albeit important aspect but just one aspect of who we really are but there are tendencies due to experience and really in a sense just how we physically formed that are in fact different just not so vastly as comparing apples and oranges but ya they are both fruits.

PS not saying we are fruity or nutty:)

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 22, 2015, 05:16:57 AM
My brain is wired so that when I see myself as a female, I like what I see. When I see myself as a male, I don't.

It has nothing to do with "feeling" feminine or masculine or wanting to be a different person. I'm me, that's all I'll ever be, whether masculine or feminine. There are some very masculine trans women and feminine trans men, but they still need to be who they are.

That's not it.

My brain needs me to be female. It's that simple.

I didn't "need ->-bleeped-<-". I am transgender.

Thats how i feel!!!