Nice weaseling Steph

It seems some people think it's perfectly ok to say anything if it's preceded or followed by "in my opinion" or "I believe".  If you believe something, that inherently means you believe that the converse is untrue. 

If you believe there are only two genders then you MUST believe I am misguided to believe otherwise.  That's just how logic works...

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R

And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.

Steph

Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 05:30:14 AM
Nice weaseling Steph

It seems some people think it's perfectly ok to say anything if it's preceded or followed by "in my opinion" or "I believe".  If you believe something, that inherently means you believe that the converse is untrue. 

If you believe there are only two genders then you MUST believe I am misguided to believe otherwise.  That's just how logic works...

I've heard prefacing "in my opinion" or "I believe" some pretty nasty points of view.

and usually these were directed at me.

~I.V.

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:34:28 AM

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R

And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.

Steph

you dont seem to be getting this... saying  there are only black an white cars in the world, the statement 'this car doesnt belive itself to be black, makes it nothing
till expressed white...
if youare gender dysphoric
you simply dont feel your current form is you, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF ANY OTHER GENDER.
and  step. im somewhat upset to hear someone of your rank being so closed minded...

hitler 'BELIVED' in his 'oppinion' that the jews needed to be exterminated....
oppinion is strong stuff
R

OK...

The fact that I am an Administrator here doesn't mean that I have to believe that everyone else's beliefs are true.  It means that I will support their beliefs regardless of whether I believe the same or not, and I will ensure that they are treated with respect and dignity just as everyone else.  My support of "She males" on this site for example refers.   I am entitled to my beliefs and I have simply stated them here to support an opinion on this topic.

Now if we need to discuss this further it should be taken to a new topic as this conversation is detracting from the original.

Respectfully yours

Steph

what are ->-bleeped-<-s to do with anything? and you should atleast show some RESPECT.... ->-bleeped-<-s is a porn industry term, and you know better than that,
please, step  down from the JCB maam...
R

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"

ugh, that's a hideous porn term and one i find quite disgusting, and on a support site.

~I.V.

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:46:14 AM

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:34:28 AM

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R

And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.

Steph

you dont seem to be getting this... saying  there are only black an white cars in the world, the statement 'this car doesnt belive itself to be black, makes it nothing
till expressed white...
if youare gender dysphoric
you simply dont feel your current form is you, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF ANY OTHER GENDER.
and  step. im somewhat upset to hear someone of your rank being so closed minded...

hitler 'BELIVED' in his 'oppinion' that the jews needed to be exterminated....
oppinion is strong stuff
R

And comparing me to Adolf Hitler is truly hurtful.  I have had to endure and suffer much for my beliefs and I stand by them.  I don't have to "Get it" I know what I believe .  However I respect what others may believe.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 06:01:40 AM

And comparing me to Adolf Hitler is truly hurtful.  I have had to endure and suffer much for my beliefs and I stand by them.  I don't have to "Get it" I know what I believe .  However I respect what others may believe.

Steph

Then you probably know how the non-binaries feel reading this thread...

agreed. your hurting non binaries with your statements...
i personaly feel im a female, in the  binary sense, but im willing to accept female as a position on a spectrum to be inclusive, my id isnt compromised, and thiers is accepted, your statements are JUST as hurtful as what you found offensive.
steph, im jewish, i know how cutting hitler comments can be, but i feel its aprorpriate to display how 'oppinion' can cause massive pain, even if you state it as an opinion...
R

Hi Ivy

That a "BINGO!"

QuoteI present as female, as for me it's better than been male, picked one of the two, for me it's a happy place, and socially it's easier. and not matter what i do my body will never be female, it will always be sorta half way, and I'm happy with that.

~

I couldn't agree more. It has been a great relief for me when I discovered what androgyne means.
I have no interest in the duality of either sex and gender, but I still so love it when my soul mate Wing Walker caresses and hugs me. I just feel so secure I don't know what I would do without  her.

Before I met her I was, well, like stuck in a sargasso sea, nearly died of loneliness so I didn't waste any time beating a path to my soul mate when she offered herself to me.

Cindy 

Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man (as the case maybe).  My transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick.  Chicks with dicks are seen as perverse and unnatural by society and I doubt very much that this perception will ever change.  It's the old "Acceptance" or "Completely passing" argument again.

Steph

I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.

I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.

QuoteAnd for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.

Steph

Many years ago I was diagnosed as having GID and set out on the TS path to transition. I've felt intense pain and suffering from discomfort of my birth gender. What I've discovered is that for me, just because I wasn't male didn't mean that I absolutely must be female. Trying to shoehorn myself into the opposite gender didn't fit either. Gender is amazingly diverse... even as I communicate with other androgynes/genderqueers/twospirits/etc here I see how differently we each experience gender.

I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on this.

zythyra

Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 06:27:21 AM

I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.

I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.

I think a lot of people see it this way.  Being attractive gets you a long way, especially if you're a woman.  (Passability and attractiveness aren't the same I know, but most people view a transwoman who doesn't pass as unattractive).   Non-ops and pre-ops who look and act feminine will be treated better than a poorly passing post-op...

It's sad that people place so much importance on attractiveness, but they do...

indeed....
beauty gets you EVERYWHERE....
the pre ops are worse than post ops rubbish that circles trans forums and  commnities is simply, a 'i have more money than you, you suck'
R

OK, people, I really think it's time for this.  Hate to bring out the heavy artillery, but:



It looks to me like some people I respect greatly are getting way too serious about this.

Kristi

chill is all well and good, but when people start denying the existance of gender identities other than thier own, ESPECIALLY STAFF. I dont think there is a need for chill, but accountability.
R

Be gentle ladies and gentlemen...

Quote from: Susan on November 14, 2007, 07:08:03 AM
Be gentle ladies and gentlemen...

Is this a free pass for the rest of us? 

Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 06:27:21 AM

I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.

I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.

I think a lot of people see it this way.  Being attractive gets you a long way, especially if you're a woman.  (Passability and attractiveness aren't the same I know, but most people view a transwoman who doesn't pass as unattractive).   Non-ops and pre-ops who look and act feminine will be treated better than a poorly passing post-op...

It's sad that people place so much importance on attractiveness, but they do...

You miss the point, Steph said 'She males' were perverse and I disagreed with that. They are no more perverse than we are and I don't think we should make those kind of judgements. I have a 'she male' or chick with a dick' who stays with me and she looks every bit a woman than most girls I've seen down the high street. Her reasons for not wanting GRS are both medical based and personal and I'm angry that she should be judged and belittled in this way.