I am a bisexual male in a relationship of 13 years with a male to female spouse. We have always identified our selves as a male and female couple. She has really started over the past few years to embrace herself as a pre-op mtf. As of late...she no longer wants to have sex with me at all I am a masculine type of guy and I know she is in love with me and sexually attracted to me. We don't have many options for having sex as I am sorry if this is too direct and too open but she says she doesn't want to have anal sex anymore but getting the reassignment surgery is out of our reach right now but is a goal we are working on. I love her to death with all my heart as she does me, but I have my needs and she looks at porn constantly but won't touch me at all. I don't know what to do. Any advice will help sometimes it is months before we have any intimate contact and it is killing me. she hasn't started on hormones yet, and used to have a really huge sex drive that matched my own. but over the past year or so it has almost stopped all together. I literally hate the pornography she looks at which is all male on male porn porn in general does nothing for me at all. I need the actual physical contact that is just how I am. I don't know what to do. I wait soo long it is getting harder to not look elsewhere and I don't want to do that as I really don't want to betray her trust at all and we have spoken about this she says flaty out she just isn't comfortable with the anal sex andoral sex is out she isn't into that masturbation is out its freaking ridiculous I am in love and cant see myself with anyone else but if things don't change I know I will have to look elsewhere I feel terrible for even saying that but Like anyone, I have my needs. HELP!

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It sounds a really tough situation. Is she seeing a gender therapist as yet? If so I think maybe both of you should attend and if not I suggest bringing a professional gender therapist in too help.

She is obviously struggling with something and it sounds as if professional advice is really needed.

I agree but until finances are better she refuses to see a therapist....she is against the gender therapy all around says "its not right a therapist should dictate what she does with her body" until my promotion at work comes through in about a year or so therapy is out. Especially being that at this present time we live in a small town where there are no gender therapist the closest one is about 3 1/2 hours away. I am working hard to make that promotion come through...with that promotion comes relocation.

I think maybe explain that the therapy is nothing to do with her identity, she is secure in that, but about your relationship.

If you both love each other, a loving intimate relationship is very important.

Don't approach with 'I need to get my jollies off' but that you both need security in your relationship?

Maybe?

Nekoboy79
Welcome to Susan's Family
Changing fluidness in relationships with a mtf I can relate to.  I so hated my body and took all I could do in letting some intimacy to happen.  Same with my ftm spouse.  Communication and finding a way forward.  Even after surgery if that is her goal will make things hard without communication. I wish you both the best. 
So many topics to explore and posts to read or write.
Many article of news, wiki, links ,minecraft and chat
Safe passage on your path, Popcorn?
Hugs

I have tried that approach. I've said to her which is the truth "I can get myself off, but It is you I want to be close to. The intimacy with you is important to me. Intimacy is important in any relationship it helps with understanding trust and helps us stay close as a couple." She snaps at me with, "it is all about sex with you?" Even when I try to explain to her that isn't the case she doesn't want to here it but her porn addiction is her outlet. So I guess im as confused as ever.

Well, porn addiction rather than partner participation is usually a bad sign in any relationship.

Maybe try that approach, but it may be throwing petrol onto the fire!

Quote from: mrs izzy on March 30, 2015, 12:47:08 AM
Nekoboy79
Welcome to Susan's Family
Changing fluidness in relationships with a mtf I can relate to.  I so hated my body and took all I could do in letting some intimacy to happen.  Same with my ftm spouse.  Communication and finding a way forward.  Even after surgery if that is her goal will make things hard without communication. I wish you both the best. 
So many topics to explore and posts to read or write.
Many article of news, wiki, links ,minecraft and chat
Safe passage on your path, Popcorn?
Hugs

I never thought about that. I mean she has to have a sexual outlet and I think porn is it...but the self loathing and not allowing intimacy I never really thought about that. Kind of opens my eyes some.

**warning - this advice may not be worth the nickel you paid me, but here goes anyway**

What you describe sounds a bit like the divide I experienced in my last long term relationship. There was so much going on with her that wasn't shared with me.  that distance she maintained and the  lack of intimacy took its toll ending with cheating (on both sides) and too much ugliness to repair. Not trying to freak you out. In fact I wish I had had your instinct to look for help before things went south. Ultimately she is going to have to open up to you. Make yourself available. Let her know and see that you are and that it's safe for her. That's all you can really do! (And yes, take care of your own sex needs for a little while!) I find it very intriguing that she prefers male + male porn. This is totally reaching here, but to me that points to a gender conflict either within herself or between the role expectation between both of you. From the tone if your post I would also guess you may be putting too much pressure on her to be only one 'thing', whereas there are many 'things' going on for a person on transition. Or maybe she is just frustrated and wants to be finished with every part of her male incarnation. She wants to be intimate with you as a finished product but only sees the current setup as male + male. Either way, focusing on sex is only going to put more strain on the situation. Try to connect outside of those concerns and always around --> love!

the reason she says she watches m/m porn is  "i am not a lesbian" I don't pressure her at all I don't expect her to be one thing only all I have told her is be yourself I am happy if you are happy. I just want you to be who you feel inside who your heart and mind know you to be. Genetics betrayed you but I never will. those are some of my exact words. maybe you are right she wants to be herself making love to me but I dunno how long I can wait. She knew she was transgendered since the day we met and before over 13 years ago but recently she has changed and I dunno what it is....maybe the fact she is impatient about her transition I can understand that. SHe has no patience for anything at all never has. I am doing my best I am the only one working I told her if she wants to be the housewife and stop working because you aren't comfortable with not beign able to go to work as yourself I understand. She loved that idea It doesn't bother me. she doesn't do much at home lol I end up coming home and taking up her slack  because she also has an online gaming addiction to mmorpgs like world of Warcraft league of legends and so on. I am pretty exhausted. I admit her entire life she has had a temper loses control easily if she doesnt get her way in the games she plays she assumes everyone is hacking ive replaced computers more often than I care to. There is just a lot of t hings. I have tried the understanding husband routine...yes we are married, I have tried beign firm...not abusive. There are so many obstacles and stuff with her emotional and mental states and she refuses therapy....I am just at a lost the sexual issues isn't the only thing but its a major one.

Saddest part, I have spent our entire relationship trying to get her to communicate about anything. Via text while I am at work or sitting in the same room I have to email her so we can discuss anything. face to face verbal talking if we try to talk about anything even just random nonsense like music or whats for dinner she gets explosive or bored easily unless its via text or email. To me that is no way to communicate. She said we would work on it and have been for years but verbal communication at all she cant talk about anything for longer than a minute or two as she gets bored but via anything electronic she can go on for hours. Sorry I am laying a lot out there...it's just a lot of compounding stuff and everyone not just me sees that I am the only one trying she is more obsessed with the computer than anything else. I have in the past totally took computers out of our life but she got soo bored all she would do was sleep and well shes is beautiful but I didn't marry sleeping beauty. I dunno I am just lost. She says she wants to talk and connect but she is always angry about something years ago she went through anger management she beat up the anger management coach. so I dunno she only wants to talk about what she wants to talk about. And even that last for about a minute. I am exhausted. playing househusband plus sole breadwinner is hard. lord forbid I come home after 11 hr work days if I go to bed before her she raiss so much fuss I cant sleep says I am lazy while she sits on the computer all day and all night....if I ge tmroe than three hours sleep I am called lazy. Sorry just venting. sad when her family who is very supportive of her says that I deserve better. They don't say it to her but to me. They ask why I stay. I simply say because I love her and have always

Ok well it sounds she is retreating in a world where she feels better... and has a feeling of more control...

computer games and porn are both venues that take up quite some energy... she could try to concentrate a bit more on other things, that also fulfill her...
there are quite a few things she probably isn't happy with and she tries to step into a world where she is distracted...
she could try step by step a few things that fulfill her and help her in the longer term:
-cutting on porn
-concentrating on sexual experiences that please both of you. She might have disphoria concerning her bottom parts. You might try devices like a magic wand or smart wand. They are powerful devices, designed to stimulate a whole area, and allow for fantasies meanwhile. Pairs can use it together. Depending on the disphoria it might allow for feelings unrelated to parts, and instead allow for pleasurable fantasies .
All at your own risk just don't overextend yourself, those devices are powerful. Some people use a cloth in between, for example. Some smart wands have a few speed settings, so they might be regulated a bit better. You might look up a few experiences, there are people of both sexes who are very happy with those devices.
-she might do a few things she likes and which help her get in contact with herself, make for a creative outlet and improve her situation a bit:
-taking up cooking... its creative, can be fun and it could bring her into contact with her female and nurturing side... also gardening... raising a few plants...
-she could try a few minutes of rest every day... having a nice cup of tea, just sitting, enjoying and thinking about what she'd like... meditation like.. just feeling herself... without getting angry, just feeling positive things... what she'd like to do...
-therapy can be helpful. Its not other people telling what to do, in fact its the opposite. A good therapist should help uncover what she needs, and support her in the steps she takes... a gender therapist familiar with the process could guide her through the steps.
-there might be free counseling available at lgbt centers... she might even call there, it might not be necessary to go there in person...
and there are helplines, and maybe even local support groups...
she could call one of those for example, people are there to help and give advice (there are many others):
glnh dot org/talkline/ (this is the national lgbt youth helpline)
translifeline dot org
-she might do a few things that might help her feel her female side: growing her hair out, trying different clothing styles... wearing womens trousers, sweaters one or two sizes bigger... second hand stores could be a good source...
Well you could tell her to reduce step by step a bit of the virtual world and do a few things in the real world that could make her happy...

Quote from: nekoboy79 on March 30, 2015, 02:46:46 AM
... I deserve better...

I wish my previous partner was a fraction as supportive as you seem to be. You are awesome. She sounds clinically depressed. Do you both go out? Have a normal social life, friends? The sex issue sounds like just a part of the total problem now, though clearly inter related. She also has to want to make things good between you two. You obviously can't do it by yourself.  If she is taking you for granted calmly, clearly state your position, feelings, needs perhaps that will motivate her. What more is there but to be patient? But unless you're the Buddha, that has its limit. Get her on here! She can't stay off the computer anyway. There's so many really wise people here to offer insight.

she refuses to make friends I would love to make friends but she thinks that all friends do is screw you over or steal from you...she doesn't let me make friends which is hard on me ive always been social. I don't know if its just she has a terrible bad attitude or clinical depression maybe both.

Quote from: nekoboy79 on March 30, 2015, 07:42:20 PM
she refuses to make friends I would love to make friends but she thinks that all friends do is screw you over or steal from you...she doesn't let me make friends which is hard on me ive always been social. I don't know if its just she has a terrible bad attitude or clinical depression maybe both.

She sounds controlling; sorry you are going through this, and I wish you the best.

She might look for a therapist who has gender on their list...
if its connected with depression it might be covered...
and quite a few therapists work online, so she might keep this one even if you would move...
a good therapist does help the client uncover what is inside of them, guide them along the way and help heal...
and its well possible to talk to them, if something does bother... just asking, and talking about it...

well a lot comes down to attitude...
if she is angry that she cannot have things now it does not help...
she could try to concentrate on things that make it worthwhile in the meantime...
working a bit on hair and clothing style... etc...
and, well, doing a few things she likes but are not only virtual...

hugs

Nekoboy79,

Disclaimer: These are my opinions and I don't guarantee any form of success. Implement these at your own risk...

I'm sorry that things have been difficult for you  We are in the same boat in regard to the full disclosure of Trans* issues from the beginning of the relationship, for people like us there are a different 'set of rules' shall we say that are NOT written anywhere that I have been able to find. I too am the sole breadwinner in my household, with a spouse that battles with debilitating depression (and physical issues as well, in my case). It is a tough situation to be in, and quite frankly I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I applaud you on your tenacity to have done this for 13 years...I'm on year 5.

Once upon a time I got a piece of advice from a lady who had a MtF spouse and she was lucky enough to work with a therapist who specialized in S/Os of Trans* individuals. The most important thing that she relayed to me from the therapist was: the individual in transition is going through a second puberty, and as we know pre-teens and teens going through puberty behave like selfish individuals. They appear selfish because they are trying to define who they are and how they fit within their family, peer groups, and society. They don't do it out of malicious intent, it is a byproduct of that exploration of self. If a person is that wrapped up in their internal self that far, it causes them to behave in ways that those of us on the outside perceive as selfishness.

I am giving that piece of advice to you, because I have to remind myself of that on a constant basis. Right now, my spouse doesn't realize how she is acting to me, her friends, or society as a whole. I don't know if once she emerges on the other side of transition she will realize this fact or not. If she does, then surely she will try to make it right. And if she never realizes it, then I have accepted this path knowing full well the issues that plague Trans* individuals, so I have to not hold any resentment toward her. I have only in the past couple of years came to these revelations...and if that had been completely laid out before me in that way all of those years ago I don't know what I would of done. I would have been paralyzed with fear because of my own perceived and real inadequacies. I thought I knew so much back then...when in reality I just had barely scratched the surface. Searching my own soul has been the only way that I feel like I can maintain any semblance of sanity through this crazy journey....much like a person in solitary confinement.

Let her be selfish, and feel like she can be. When my spouse feels like I'm putting too much obligation on her or putting her inside of a space (whether physically or emotionally) that she perceives as limited (whether real or imagined) it causes her to feel like she doesn't matter. Much like a child is more likely to rebel if there are too tight of rules (whether real or imagined). The perception of the person going through transition is what matters, not what those of us on the outside see. It is about the person going through transition...not you that matters.

I feel like Significant Others most often leave because they either can't or won't accept that they need to be the solid rock in the background during their partner's transition. And in other cases where the person going through transition breaks off the relationship, it is because they      -feel- like they can't or don't have the spotlight (whether real or imagined). Let your wife have center stage, and care for yourself in a way that DOES NOT put you or your needs in the spotlight (or even perceptively so).     

I know that it is a hard and thankless job being the breadwinner, taking care of the domestic end of things, and being a constant support for the person you love who doesn't realize how they affect others and are self destructive. You have to be the 'bigger person' in the situation and go out of your way to make her feel special, accepted, and loved while juggling the internal emotions that come from the rest of everything, and not let the negative and/or selfish emotions you may have come out sideways. Do small gestures, pick random wildflowers, a card saying that you love her and want to be there for her (just because). Make her feel like a woman. Take her to get her nails or hair done. Take her shopping. I realize that money is tight trying to save up for everything that goes with transition, but these little expenses are worth more to her than you can ever know...and make the waiting easier to endure. As to issues of intimacy, communicate communicate communicate, treat her like a woman in bed with kisses, caresses, and foreplay. Ask her permission to touch her. Make her feel safe. When she feels like you are taking care of her, she will (hopefully) come around and start taking care of your sexual needs without you asking for it.

I know that I wrote a small novel with a lot to digest. These are things that I have found through my experiences, and I realize that every individual and situation is unique. Someone needs to break the cycle and you are more capable of doing so than your partner is. I realize that all of this is easier said than done, and trust me...I'm not perfect, neither are you. We all are human. "Let Go, Take Hold" Good luck on the ride.   

I have stayed out of this conversation because, quite honestly, neko's spouse sounds like she may be verbally and psychologically abusive.

however, Ashley's comment makes me want to add that *our* therapist said it's like second puberty but with an adult's coping tools... meaning some heat of the moment flare-ups are normal, but routinely and constantly treating your partner with disrespect and disregard is still unfair. My wife had some epic tantrums early in HRT (as did I, with similar hormonal reasons but less excuse!), but always apologized and reined it in shortly thereafter. Nobody should have to spend years with emotional terrorism, even for the sake of supporting someone who is also having a very hard time.

blueconstancy,

You are right and thank you for your addition. Perhaps I didn't see the 'emotional terrorism' (I like that phrase, btw) angle because I'm a masochistic person. Since I'm trying to be healthier and not 'self harm' anymore I may have the tendency to absorb my partner's stuff and internalize it. Since I can't be mean to myself anymore I would let people get away with bloody murder (turn of phrase) in regard to me. Not trying to hijack Nekoboy's thread. Thank you for what you said, as I'm going to need to look at my situation and interactions over the years through a different lens.

Ashley, my sympathy and support to you and neko both. I'm sort of both sorry and glad if my comment made you realize you deserve to be treated well... we all do.

(I suffered with a mother who engaged in many of these tactics, and it absolutely was abusive in that case. So just as your experiences influence how you perceive things, it's entirely possible that mine are making me less charitable about this sort of behavior.)

Quote from: blueconstancy on April 06, 2015, 07:07:57 AM
I have stayed out of this conversation because, quite honestly, neko's spouse sounds like she may be verbally and psychologically abusive.

however, Ashley's comment makes me want to add that *our* therapist said it's like second puberty but with an adult's coping tools... meaning some heat of the moment flare-ups are normal, but routinely and constantly treating your partner with disrespect and disregard is still unfair. My wife had some epic tantrums early in HRT (as did I, with similar hormonal reasons but less excuse!), but always apologized and reined it in shortly thereafter. Nobody should have to spend years with emotional terrorism, even for the sake of supporting someone who is also having a very hard time.

I fully agree.  It is true that trans people may have their share of emotional baggage, but from what the op is describing, there is a lot more going on with his partner than just MtF issues. Telling the OP that he cannot have friends is controlling, manipulative, and just wrong.