my first post, my husband came out to me, well multiple times in the last 15 months, and after 12 years of knowing him i just don't buy that he is transgender. let me explain. my husband likes women, no loves women. he loves strip clubs, porn, and any woman that is remotely attractive. a while ago about 5 years into out marriage i caught him cheating and we went to counseling and we worked out some relationship problems, and focus problems around what is important. so time passes and then he hits me with hes always been a women. ummm ok, i look at his childhood pictures and its all guy mode. he says, he always wanted to wear girl clothes, and wants to be called robin, hates his adams apple, etc.

so i went along with it and thinking about this made me angry, hurt, and just plain not buying it. so i called his bluff and told him, I'm not a lesbian, and that this isn't gonna work, and we should divorce. so he then back peddles and says he's not transgender, and was confused. so i told him i needed more and he explained that the whole idea came about. because, of the many things in his life he cannot explain, like wanting to wear girl clothes, wanting and gravitating to female things. i told em guys can like female things and not be transgender. to that he said thats true. so he saw a therapist who also supported me and said men have but female and male in them, same with women. yin and yang if you will. and it doesn't make a person transgender. the therapist also said that its fine and he's not transgender but balanced, and its ok to explore his female side some. so we did, he tried on some girl shoes, and pants, and i asked him how they made him feel and he said, silly. so.. we put it to rest. now months later its back, he says he wants to transition, and again i called him out, and now he says he is just confused, and just needed me to center him back.


so.... what is going on here? in my mind there is NO WAY he is transgender. am i wrong? i mean even therapist basically said he is not. i want my husband, and my life, and my sex with a male partner.

anyone else deal with this? did you help them to stay male, or let them transition? did you stay or leave? i cant imagine staying with my husband if he turned into a woman. sex will not be an option and im not attracted to females. to me, he is just ill. and i dont know how to snap him out of it. sigh...

thanks for listening and any advice.

Liking women means nothing. Sexuality and gender are completely separate things. Trans women can be lesbians and like women. It is perfectly normal. We dont have to fit certain narratives to be trans. Trans women can be into any of those things. Trans people can be trans even if its not 'obvious' to you. We can be too scared to show it or tell anyone so hide it by trying to pretend to be what is expected (dressing as a guy etc). It doesnt mean he isnt or never was trans. Childhood pics dont really mean anything. Known I was male since first conscious memory. My early pics wont show that because things were forced on me that I had no control over. Doesnt mean I wasnt trans then, I was

He might have said that because he was scared by your bringing up divorce so he tried to tone it down for you. Doesnt mean it was a lie, might just be fear at the moment. Yes men can be feminine and still be men. It comes down to does he just like that stuff or does he actually feel female inside? Thats the difference between gender expression and actual gender. They're not the same. Maybe he is unsure which it is right now and needs time to work that out. Therapists can certainly help but only if they are competent with trans issues. A general therapist who knows nothing about trans stuff is unlikely to be much help. If he really wants to work it out then it should be a gender therapist. No therapist should say someone is or isnt trans. Its no one elses place to say it apart from the individual. Only we know how we really feel. If they are so quick to say he isnt then I would be questioning the therapist here and how competent they are. Sounds like exploring it is definately needed to find out if transition is the right path or its something that doesnt need to go to that but can be explored in other ways. Ultimately only he can know that, therapists can just help to figure things out

No one can say for anyone else whether they are trans or not. Maybe you see what you want to see because of the set things you want. If thats not what he is then theres nothing he can do about that. Its who we are. We cant change that for anyone or shouldnt have to pretend to be something we're not. There is no 'help them to stay male'. That is the wrong thing to do. Its forcing them into something to suit yourself. No one should have to live like that. People have tried to force reparative therapy on us. It does not work. We cant be changed of who we are. We dont 'become' women or men. We already are. We align our bodies to match what we already are. Nothing more than that. If he is trans then 'he' already is a woman. But only he can find that out and know for sure. Trans people are not 'ill' and we cant just become cis. If he is trans theres nothing wrong with him. Scared to show it, express it, tell anyone, so we have to hide and pretend to be our birth gender to suit other people. There are relationships that survive this. Its dependent on the people involved. Ultimately we cant choose to change our sexuality so its understandable when things are no longer compatible. You cant make yourself be attracted to something you're not. If he is trans then it is something you will have to deal with. Those who stay may be more fluid in their sexuality and gender not bother them either way

Depending on what therapist you're seeing I would look into a gender one if it isnt already and spend more time trying to figure things out. He may or may not be trans. Only he will know that. Seems he needs more help to get to that stage of being sure though. He very may well not be trans but just into feminine things. If he isnt sure he needs help to figure things out before doing anything. Transition is very wrong for someone who doesnt need it. Do not rush into that when you're not sure. I hope he is able to figure things out either way and come to terms with things

Frankly, your opinion on the matter is immaterial.

Many of us have distinctly 'male' pasts, there are some ex special forces peoples floating around.. And cops, firies and any number of stereotypically 'male' occupations. I'm a trans woman who still has an interest in cars - including mechanical repairs. I've been known to enjoy a cigar and a single malt whiskey. None of which makes us any less trans. My sexual preferences have nothing to do with my gender, I just happen to prefer women. You'd never know to look at my past that I was really a woman, I wore the mask that society forced upon me quite well.

And as for your spouse backpedalling when threatened with divorce? Entirely understandable really, if you think about it..

Was this therapist a specialist in gender issues?

Thanks so much for the replies so fast, my husband will be home soon. To answer some questions. he saw a regular therapist that had an eastern medicine slant to her style, thus the yin/yang style discussions we had with her.

I'm not sure what to do, I suppose letting him see a gender therapist is the right thing to do, but I want to smack him. I just don't see it, and if he is transgender, then what? should I allow him to laser his face, he says he needs to start now, because his hair is starting to get gray in it and laser won't remove it.

Are we to grow old as a couple of ladies? I think I could do it, but I don't think sex would be in the picture. what am I supposed to do about that, self pleasure myself for the rest of my life? I'm not sure thats for me. And not having sex is out of the question...  and what would our kids think (20 and 12, and 11). and seriously I don't see a pleasant future for him, I mean I don't see him as being a passing female ever, so people are going to be mean to him.  Sigh..this is just a lot to wrap my head around. and what about our plans to retire and all that? now thats up in the air, we would have to find a place where we actually might be accepted. All this is a lot to take in, I love him, but it feels like a crisis to me.

First off, welcome to Susan's, glad to have you here 

Well, transgender encompasses a vast spectrum and crossdressing is included within the transgender spectrum and there is nothing wrong with it, how far he feels he needs to go with it is up to him

Some couples like to use crossdressing and even role reversal to experiment, explore and understand these feelings, some say it adds a playful zing to their nightlife

Maybe play along and put on a suit and tie and see where it goes, might turn into something new and fun for the both of you

Hugs

Hi and welcome! It's not uncommon for transwomen to be attracted to women, nor for them to give the appearance of living "manly" lives (not doing so usually invokes bullying and ridicule). As mentioned above it really comes down to how they want to express their gender, they need to be true to themselves. And you need to be true to yourself too - if the transition processes and you find you are not attracted to them as a woman because you are heterosexual then it is your choice to decide to go within the relationship. Please don't use it as a bargaining chip or a threat, if you don't want to stay then just say so. Ultimately that would make things easier for you both.

I simply give my opinion...
its up to you what you do...

first transgender is an umbrella term including persons who show gender non conforming behavior. So crossdressers, androgynous people (meaning literally both man and woman ) , and many more are included.

You should think about visiting someone who has gender on their list. A good gender therapist should help sort this out and guide people along the way. This all might be a process, him trying out easy reversible steps and seeing how it makes him feel.
It might be possible he is content with an androgynous style for example, it might be possible he would like to fully transition.
The core of his person will stay the same, like a twin... with the same sense of humour etc...

You might ask plannedparenthood, a local lgbt center or transgender groups for a referral.
And you might ask them for their experience, and how they see their role.

If its connected with depression or emotional issues it might be covered.

Transgender people are sometimes told in their youth to adapt to gender roles. So they sometimes adapt to other peoples expectations, instead of talking it out. This might explain his going back and forth, which might be stressful for both of you.

For more thoughts you might look up a brochure for the british NHS called "doh-transgender-experiences.pdf" . Only thing I would disagree with is page 7, where they state stress, instead many experience relief.


Lesbian sex can be fulfilling and as well be penetrative.  But its all up to you.


I'd say remember its a process... it might take some time to get used to a few ideas... and talk about it....

I know you are feeling hurt and totally thrown a curve in your life.

Unfortunately the only one who knows who they are is the person you feel strongly can not possibly be.

It will be a answer they need to answer and feel is why they feel the way they do.

->-bleeped-<- is of a large spectrum. Many have for so many years stuffed there feelings away to please the people around them. They truly try to live a lie for the sake of society and what society expects.

So.... as so many have suggested here. Find a Gender therapist is where I would start. One who has special training in Gender Dysphoria. GD has noting to do with sexual preference. That is a huge misnomer. ->-bleeped-<- is not about sex.

Please take the time to check out the SO section of the boards for others who have spouses or children who are dealing with GD.

For your reference please review,
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Je suis un être humain,Popcorn?
Hugs

If you had met me 5 years ago, you would've said there's no way I could be trans. I can tell you that struggling with those kinds of feelings--yours and your husband's--is very painful.

I agree with the therapist's idea that men and women have "male" and "female" aspects, but that is normal, and does not make a person either male or female in their mind/soul. There are manly women, and effeminate men. There are people who have a male mind but have a female body, and those with a female mind but a male body.  It's all about how we see ourselves. (And of course, there are those born "intersex" (previously known as "hermaphrodites"; this is considered inappropriate now). Quite the variety in gender+body presentations! 

Of course, see a therapist who specializes in gender issues. Keep your husband informed as to what you're doing (if s/he isn't already actively looking for one). It's important that both of you have a safe "place" (physical, as well as mental/emotional safety) where both can say what's on their mind without threats of divorce, mocking or ridicule, suicide (yes, this might come up; stats show that 41% of transsexuals attempt or complete the act), etc.

Be safe with each other. Be loving. Yes, it hurts...but be aware this hurts your husband just as much.

Good luck! And please, come back if you have more questions, a need to vent, or just to let us know how things are! Welcome to Susan's!

--Beth

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this; your fear, hurt, and anger come through clearly, and I sympathize. It's scary to feel that the person you love might be someone different from who you thought he was. I'd ask you to consider this, though: he is who he is, and he's always been that person; that isn't going to change. What's changing is that he's getting in touch with parts of himself that he's hidden, perhaps from himself as well as from other people.

But he's just as scared as you are. Speaking as someone who has made the decision to transition, the absolutely hardest thing about making that decision, at least for me, was the fear that the people I love would be unable to accept me as I am. I've been very lucky that way, but not everyone is -- people do lose husbands and wives; sometimes they're estranged from their children; sometimes their parents and other family members want nothing to do with them. But people do it anyway, because it is that important.  It's horrible to live your life pretending to be something you're not, and for many people it is literally a matter of life and death. It was for me. I felt completely worthless; I was depressed and very, very close to killing myself, and transitioning to male was my path out of that state and back to living.

It would be good if you could accept that his basic identity, whatever it is, isn't under your control. If your husband has "tried" to come out to you many times over the last year or so, there's something going on there, and it doesn't really matter whether you "buy" it or not. It's not up to you to decide who he is; the fact that you don't want him to be transgender has no bearing on whether he is or isn't. Along those lines, you've said a couple of things which really concern me.

"I suppose letting him see a gender therapist is the right thing to do, but I want to smack him."

"should I allow him to laser his face..."

Why do you feel that it's your choice whether he does these things? Why does he need your permission?  These are things that are up to him. If you love him, support him in the choices he makes. They may or may not be ones you can ultimately accept, but it's vital to recognize that he has the right to make them.

Yes, he needs to be seeing a gender therapist, and from all you've said, it would be good if you were also seeing a therapist, probably not the same one. You have a lot of feelings to sort out, and a professional would be really helpful with that. I think it would also be helpful for you to have the kind of outside support which a good therapist can provide; knowing you're not alone, that you have someone to help you who is completely on your side, would make all of this a lot less scary for you. Please take care of yourself this way.

so.. I took my wedding ring off and put it back on, and took it off, and then put it back on. I'm partially a person who fixates on things, and so him coming out, over and over is made worse by me not being able to get it out of my head. What do I do, what is right for me, the kids, him. I feel like its a titanic moment where one of us will be in the boat and the other is in the icy water. yet I don't want it to be that way, maybe thats not a good analogy. b

My father is very dominate and is clearly the alpha with my mom, and  I suppose I got some of that in me as well, the good news is that when my dad sits and thinks about things for a while, he usually calms down.  I'm very like my father, yet I fixate and I'm emotional and all that, so life around our house is not a happy experience at the moment.  I share the story about my dad, because that's why I say things like "should I allow him to laser his face" I guess I just want to be the final say in our marriage. To this date I have been, he bends a lot to me, but I'm usually right and he is wrong (I'm not kidding).

To share I've been reading a lot on this board, the coming out forum, the hormone replacement forum, and others, I've been on ->-bleeped-<- transgender spouses forum, I think its  /r/mypartneristrans and I've now discovered youtube, for good and bad.

you know...I married him because I do love who he is, and I do want to be with him forever, and I do want him to be the FATHER/HUSBAND/MALE to our kids, not another mom. I can't imagine me with a woman, I suppose he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses" and that kills me, its not fair, and I know things are changing, the world is becoming more accepting, but I come from a generation, where these mind benders were even talked about, or thought about.

Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 08, 2015, 02:33:02 PM

you know...I married him because I do love who he is, and I do want to be with him forever, and I do want him to be the FATHER/HUSBAND/MALE to our kids, not another mom. I can't imagine me with a woman, I suppose he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses" and that kills me, its not fair, and I know things are changing, the world is becoming more accepting, but I come from a generation, where these mind benders were even talked about, or thought about.

A good gender therapist will absolutely *not* do that.  A good gender therapist helps people to be true to themselves, and that may mean male, female, or something in between.  You shouldn't be afraid of what will happen if your husband sees a gender therapist.  You should be more afraid of the confusion, depression, unhappiness, and potential lies if your husband does not see one.  If your husband decides to transition, your husband will still be the same person inside, but probably much happier and you might find that you really like that.

The personality of trans people does not change, except maybe for the better.
Can you be happy with your partner as a person instead of seeing them as a man/woman?
Explore your inner potential to love your partner unconditionally.
How far do you need to bend when you consider only the two of you?

The first lifeboat was half empty.

I tried to live as a man for most of my life because I was too ashamed to allow myself to be trans. But I couldn't hide behind a fake mask forever. Eventually it caught up with me and I'm better off as a girl even though I'm very early in my transition. I too am interested in women. I even got a girl pregnant once. If she hadn't miscarried I would be a parent. It was hard for me to accept myself to the point where I could live my life as a girl full time and I don't even have a significant other at the moment. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be living with someone and not being able to hide anymore.

Is your husband trans? I don't know. He might be. He might not be. I can't say as only he can say. Just be aware that its easy for someone to be in denial about themselves. If he said hes trans and then later said he isn't trans he might be afraid of being trans like I was.

Ok let me interject a few thoughts in the hope they might be helpful. So you can understand where I am coming from I'll preface my remarks by explaining that I'm an ultra longterm (30 years plus) post everything who in later life is now training as a doctor. I'm not yet qualified, so my thoughts carry no weight, but may, I hope, at least have a smattering of insight. These things are seldom straight forward I originally transitioned in my childhood, but even my emergence was not without its hiccups and setbacks.

So firstly I can fully understand that it will have been a huge shock, and the apparent oscilation may feel like a repeated injury. I am so sorry that you are having to struggle with this. Know one thing very clearly, like much in life it is not fair, or anyones fault. It just is what it is.

What I think you may need to consider is that this is someone who has had this as a guilty secret all of their life, and in bringing it out they become very vulnerable, so that any difficulties will tend to cause a reflexive withdrawl back into the shell. However the need to "emerge" is still there and so sooner or later annother attempt at emerging takes place. This is not because your husband does not understand the pain it causes, or because you are not loved. It's just part of the complexity of this condition, when it emerges later in life.

Most people of course have heard of the youngsters (as I once was). Those who "knew" from an early age. A few of us were lucky and got the freedom to express that there and then. Many did not, and as a result repressed the feelings often so deeply that they either lost sight of them, or held them in a dark corner of the mind. However what is sometimes not fully appreciated is that there are a group who simply never process the urges and feelings, they have, sufficiently to name them, and they can often emerge in later life. This does not mean they are not genuine. Merely that it has taken them until then to reach the level of emotional security and maturity that allows them to start exploring and processing this aspect of their makeup.

For some of them it is necessary to go on to transition, maybe take hormones, maybe even have surgery. For others it is sufficient to merely be able to express that side of their identity. There is no single right course or progression here.

Either way what treatment does is change the body. To some extent that can help liberate repressed parts of a someone's personality, things that they were previously embarrassed to express, so it can appear as if the personality changes, but fundamentally the treatment does NOT change who someone is. So I might argue that in a sense you have already been living with another woman, its just that the physical form, and a measure of social expectation, has disguised that from you. The core of who your partner is will not alter.

I suppose what I am saying is that the physical form may change - but person inside will not. Your husband will not suddenly become a stranger.

You asked specifically about lasering - the answer to that is diathermy electrolysis, which works equally well on white hair, however I think perhaps that is a detailed worry for little further down the track.

It is natural for you to feel confused, maybe even threatened by this. However the antidote to fear is knowlege and understanding, and in that respect you have come to a good place. I think also a gender counsellor may be of help, not only for your husband, but maybe also for you. Not because you need to change, but because they will be able to help you towards the knowledge that can dispell the fear and anger that it would be completely understandable for you to be feeling.

I hope that is of help. Of course I've never had to negotiate this situation, My 25 year long marriage took place long after I had my surgery and thus had completed my treatment. So the issue never arose. Sadly my partner is now deceased, however I have been active in supporting people going through this in the past, and hence I can understand just how scary and uncertain it can feel.

Take courage - there are no givens. Some couples do split up, others find ways to stay togther. Give it time, and keep talking, and the right course will become apparent. This is not the end, it is a new challenge.

Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 08, 2015, 02:33:02 PM
he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses"

Well, I'm not shure how this things work in US or Australia... but here in Europe it is very unlikely something like this would happen. In most countries there is closed and very regulated, superwised process, which could take well over 2 years of psychiatric observation, before ANY hormonal treatment or any other medical intervention is approached. For a cases, when a person is younger as very obviously transsexual, yes there are no such waiting lines, you get hormones as soon as possible, and surgeries available. But for someone who managed to live 40 or something years and function as a male, and especially if their intentions profundly effect other people such as spouse and/or children, no steps are made until the situation is clear and all questions answered.
You and your husband are in a situation where you must approach this very smart. Find a psychiatrist who has a LOT of experience with transsexual people, and work on resolving this situation. This hasn't go away in the past, and it's very unlikely it will go away and never come back now. Even if you find out you husband really is transsexual it doesn't mean they need to transition and live as a woman. There are many non-transitioning transgender and transsexual people, and one must choose the path that works the best for them (and their family such as in this case).

It might vary from state to state, but here in Alabama, I was able to start HRT in less than 6 months of counseling. Granted I don't have a significant other or kids and I already support myself fully.

It certainly is not an automatic thing to get HRT. Therapy is designed to bring out what the patient truly needs, not how far they can push things. Some people are content with cross-dressing, others with earrings, nail polish, etc. and don't *need* HRT, The Surgery etc.

Then again, what is enough for today's needs, may not be for tomorrow.

Given the control issues you mentioned, I wonder if this is a trans issue, or a counter-control effort. One way to find out is to let your husband transition by degrees: conventional wisdom among TS people is to do things s-l-o-w-l-y, and allow oneself and others to adjust. Then, after the person who is doing the transitioning is comfortable with that level, ask if they need more...or if they're happy where they are. Let your husband control the speed and progress, with just a caution about taking it slow. (Don't make it a command).

As others have said, I think it's possible he is backing down b/c he's terrified of losing you. I sympathize with you in a lot of ways - I am a control freak as well, and I was just wrecked by anxiety and fear when my wife first came out to me - but you probably aren't going to be able to control whether or not he transitions. You can, however, suggest that you compromise on things like timeline and which changes come first.

Unfortunately, if you can't see yourself being involved romantically with a woman, that's not a good sign for the relationship; it seems unlikely that he'll be able to resist transitioning forever if that is indeed what he needs to do. And I'm not going to tell you you should be willing to be flexible; I don't think people's sexual orientations are up for negotiation against their will regardless of whether someone is gay or straight. Some straight women do manage to stay with a trans woman as a partner, but not everyone can do that, and that's not a sign that something is wrong with you.

(My wife didn't exactly "change her mind" about being trans, but she did insist that she'd be fine cross-dressing occasionally... every weekend... every day... OK, maybe she wanted to make *some* transition steps... and then eventually admitted she'd suspected all along that she'd need the full deal. I don't think she was lying to me, I think she was lying to HERSELF out of fear, but it was a very frustrating time for me. However, the lesson I took away from it is that denial + desire to keep your partner = downplaying stuff as much as possible sometimes. My wife had also given in to me a lot over the course of our marriage, but this turned out to be something she simply could not give up.)

I think she is a mtf lesbian. Gender: Female, Sexual Orientation: Lesbian. I know it's complex and mind-baffling but there are many like her here.