Reading entirely through your initial post, I feel as if your personal experience corresponds almost perfectly to that of mine prior to when I started hormones and other processes of transition from male to female. I'm in no position to say which road or what choices are the best for you right now, but I can tell you that the feelings you may or may not be going through (assuming and basing this on what I understood from your writing) are not at all uncommon among transgendered people. I've treaded that exact same road with extreme difficulty, and in all truthfulness those last two-three months before I finally began my transition process from hormones to electrolysis and living full time, I genuinely felt as if I could lose my mind at any point and snap from the mere weight of the social and psychological pressure that resulted from the daily dysphoria of presenting as male, and being expected things of me that are of purely male nature.

Part of what you feel might be somewhat attributable to the rigid gender roles and lines in our contemporary culture. People often say that we live in the most gender-neutral and gender-various time in recorded history, but I've always been of the opinion that it's in fact the complete opposite. We're used to categorizing different types of behavior types, physical appearances, interests and activities to gender / sex and then expect this and that to be the standard in women, and this and that to be the standard in men. Honestly, if we're to take, say, a German or French nobleman from the eighteenth century, I'm one-hundred percent sure that all of us would perceive him to be highly effete, frail and weak - from the modern masculine point of view, that is. But in those times, what we now see as "effeminate" interests or appearances was perfectly acceptable and common among males. I think, for instance, that it's absolutely absurd that boys / men who like poetry and romance are deemed as effeminate metrosexuals or whatnot. I'm a male to female transsexual, but I'm not ashamed at all to admit that I like watching sports and that I enjoy male peer groups more than female ones. It's not something that I feel should be "purged" in order to artificially buff up my femininity, because those interests are just a part of me as a person, not as the sex / gender people expect me to belong to.

Also, speaking of categories, I highly recommend you refrain from perceiving yourself as transgendered, gay, straight or whatever. I've always told people that they are what they are, not what they are called. You are who you are as a cohesive person, capable of making the best, conscious and most informed decisions and conclusions for yourself. Of course you might present yourself in society and to the rest of the world as transgender in order to feel as a part of a group, and to help people understand better as to what and who you are, but in terms of personal experience and growth, it's better to think in entirely different terms and looking past and over established horizons.

Quote from: orangejuice on April 07, 2015, 07:01:11 AM
No not at all. It's just a combination of things that for me I'm taking into account in deciding how to deal with this. And again I'm not saying others are wrong by going ahead with transition even if they are in the same position as me.

I know. The point I was trying to make is that you are probably starting from a position no worse than any of the rest of us.

Quote from: orangejuice on April 07, 2015, 07:01:11 AM
I know it may seem like I am in denial but I feel I have actually been through all that.

....  I feel like I've gone through that whole process and come out the other side and realised that just because I am trans, (or am likely trans) doesn't mean I have to do anything about it or that I will necessarily be happier doing something about it

... If I do that then I feel happier everyday and more confident and content with who I am. If I was outwardly identifying as female then obviously it would be at the forefront of my mind 24/7. The better choice just seems to be doing what I have done the past month.

If you think you have a solution that works for you then try it out and see. Take your time. Do whatever feels right.

Quote from: orangejuice on April 07, 2015, 07:01:11 AMif I really had guts I'd be completely open about how I feel with friends and family even still. Come out, as it were, without changing a thing. I think that would be really helpful in making people realise how dumb a lot of our perceptions of gender really are. But I'm not that brave unfortunately.

Do not run yourself down. You do not have to transition. I did because I ran out of choices Bravery had nothing to do with it. I was not brave, I was desparate

I was concerned about acceptance as well. I suspect my parents and one of my sisters would be fine. I suspected two of my sisters wouldn't be. I was right. I had to cut ties with one of my sisters because it got bad. Fortunately I was in consoling at the time and it helped. It still sucks that they don't accept me. But overall I'm happier by transitioning without 2 of my sisters than living a lie with my whole family.

I don't want to make it sound all rosey though because it isn't. Transitioning should scare you as there are some really big changes and you have no idea how the people in your life will react. Not to mention SRS itself is a scary deal, but I still want it.  Originally I didn't plan on transitioning either. I thought I could contain it to wearing women's clothing late at night. I was wrong. I couldn't take that for long. If you can not transition and be happy I would recommend that route. If you decide later on you can't deal with it, then great go ahead and transition. If you can deal with not transitioning then great don't bother. This is one of the many reasons why you need a therapist. Mine helped me to not only accept the final outcome of my transition (even though its years away), but to accept myself as I am today and while I'm transitioning. Yours will help you determine if transitioning is right for you.

I simply cannot take anyone seriously who puts forth the  ->-bleeped-<- theory, which has been discredited multiple times as well as being latched on by people who have also been discredited.

TS Roadmap has a good writeup about why the  ->-bleeped-<- theory is, quite simply, a load of rubbish. You really should read it.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 07, 2015, 03:47:24 PM

In my opinion, there are too many cheer leaders around here. Transition is not easy stuff. It will change you. There's no way it won't. You also have to consider if your life would be more practical if you decided to transition. Are you femme in the least bitzy way? Is it impossible for you to hide your femininity right now? Does everyone think you're a "weird guy"? Do you have very strong body dysphoria? Hate you penis for example? It sounds like you're not in the least distressed by using your penis in sexual relationships, so yeah...you need to be very cautious and calculate all the risks and possible gains. Everyone here will tell you "women come in all shapes and forms", or "why can't you like sports, football, fishing, hunting and be a woman?" , "you don't have to be feminine to transition" which is all true, but if you are VERY stereotypically masculine and like women before transition, this will only make things harder. Can you deal with not passing? If you're deep-voiced, tall, very beardy, with rough features and masculine, be prepared because HRT may not be enough. You'll need lots of money to correct some things. Again, i'm just playing devil's advocate, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. But it's a sad reality that if you don't pass, you won't be viwed as woman at all by others and be ridiculed. Hell, even if you pass there will be ridicule and nasty people. And the whole "passing is confidence" OMG it's not! Never fool yourself like that. cis people don't need confidence to "pass", so there's no reason why this should be different for trans people.

Ye bascally what you have said there is every reason why doing something about this feeling is not for me. I'd definitely feel more comfortable in life I was female. But its sort of only on such a deep level. My emotions and observations are definitely more female in nature, but then I think why should I feel I can't just be myself and not attribute certain aspect of my personality to a gender? Whatever, I just know I do feel uncomfortable with what the world expects of me as a guy, and I would feel more comfortable as a girl, but it has never manifested itself in any kind of outward mannerisms or interests. I don't appear feminine in any way. Honestly part of the reason I avoid dating now is because I'm the kind of guy that girls are attracted to (sometimes) because I look and appear to be that strong silent alpha male type but then when they got to know me they realise I'm actually pretty sensitive (though I try to hide that from everyone) and very in touch with my emotions and emotianal too. The whole thing feels weird and awkward to me so I just avoid it altogether. The first part feels fake, but then I like the attraction that seems to result in that, who doesn't like that feeling, and so I like playing that role, and then the second part is so uncomfortable because I'm embarassed that they will find out what I'm really like. 'Guys' aren't supposed to be like that. Anyway, ye bottom line, I wake up tomorrow as a cis-girl=a completely authentic person in which I feel my mannerisms would sort of slide in naturally to fit that deep part of me that I describe above, but a hormonally induced female body that is unlikely to pass ( a man with moobs basically) =a weird uncomfortable looking transperson who appears to remain male in mannerisms and interests anyway.

Ye can of worms with the  ->-bleeped-<- thing. I read about it but I actually can't remember too much in detail. I just remember I didn't really like the tone of the writing and research behind the whole area, from both those proposing it and writing against it. It all seemed to be sort of agenda driven. But anyway I'm far from an expert I just briefly read a few papers that I could find on the internet. I can't rule out that this is all part of my sexuality, but again my best judgement on the matter is that it is not, its just the sexuality aspect is the part that negatively impacts on my life and confidence to the point that it causes me a problem. And like I said, if I was born with the sexuality of a female body, then that could be saying something. But it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm a bit tired of trying to figure it all out I think I'm just going to leave it alone for a while.

orangejuice, if it's much consolation, I can relate almost exactly to your story.  I mean, the events aren't identical but the emotions are all the same.  I originally wrote a lot for this but it's just a convolution of feelings.

In short, I can relate to ALL of what you're saying, especially on sexuality.  It switched when I came out to myself last year (and I had always been strictly hetero, bar that short gay phase every straight guy supposedly goes through).  I still experience sexual attraction to women which accompanied by a strong and familiar tingling in my gut, but not as much as I used to.  Like you, I prefer the idea of being the woman.

When I was young, I wanted to experiment with my gender presentation and often dreamed of being in female roles but society soon stamped those feelings out to the point the idea of crossdressing seemed weird to me (even though I secretly wanted to).  However, I was fine with being forced into a male role.  I had a ->-bleeped-<-ty childhood but that is due to other strenuous factors like a dysfunctional household, poor social life/skills and bullying.  What I recall experiencing (in retrospect) was envy towards girls which I couldn't put my finger on at the time.  I felt this alongside the usual sexual attraction straight boys experience when they go through puberty.

I like my male side.  I like the swagger and presentation.  However, I still experiences those feelings of jealousy towards women and female characters in computer games.  I much prefer playing as female characters.  However, the desire to present as female isn't usually strong and I'm comfortable presenting as a male most of the time.

Interestingly, I find myself yearning more for my female side during periods of duress, as I have recently.

After some introspection, I get the impression it's a psychological thing for me and not a physiological thing.  I definitely experience some "dischord" (though it's not as strong as it was during my questioning phase last year).  However, it would be nice to try and work out what the confusion is.  I might arrange to see a therapist who specializes with issues in gender and sexuality.  Whatever happens, I am adamant I won't go full time.  In fact, I'm not sure my life would actually be better as a woman full time.

In the meantime, I'm just me and tend to leave it at that.  Kimberley is a part of me and I like that.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 07, 2015, 03:47:24 PM
Do you have very strong body dysphoria? Hate you penis for example? It sounds like you're not in the least distressed by using your penis in sexual relationships

I should say I think a few people here might have read something that I haven't actually said. I don't hate my penis and you are right that aspect of dysphoria doesn't seem to be there for me, but I'm basically a virgin and I've more or less given up on relationships. I haven't even kissed a girl in two years. Its not that I hate my body but for some reason I feel very uncomfortable in the act of sex. I tried once with my high school girlfriend and once when I was like 21 and for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me. I can be aroused with somebody but the actual act of em, parts on parts, turns me off. Like I said in order to orgasm I basically have a virtual vagina and imagine the physical sensation that comes with that.

That is the whole part of this that causes the issue for me. Its ruined my self-esteem. I feel like I'm a weirdo in a world that seems obsessed with sex and the need to find a partner. And the longer it goes and the older I get the more I hate myself.

Quote from: orangejuice on April 07, 2015, 05:37:42 PM
I feel very uncomfortable in the act of sex. I tried once with my high school girlfriend and once when I was like 21 and for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me. I can be aroused with somebody but the actual act of em, parts on parts, turns me off. Like I said in order to orgasm I basically have a virtual vagina and imagine the physical sensation that comes with that.

I can relate to this when it comes to intercourse 100%. I have had very successful relationships until it comes time for intercourse and then things become weird. I think the women I have been with are really happy in the beginning because they found a guy that likes foreplay and cares about their pleasure.  Things are great until intercourse starts getting pushed, and then it falls apart.  I have done it, but it is just so unnatural and awkward that I don't enjoy it at all.  In the end, they want a man in every sense, and I can't provide that for them.  95% of the fantasies I have had in my life have been about women. 0% have been about having intercourse with any of them.

Locked.  We're not doing yet another ->-bleeped-<- argument here.   

Unlocked.

Any further references to ->-bleeped-<- will result in this thread self-destructing.

Quote from: orangejuice on April 07, 2015, 05:37:42 PM
I should say I think a few people here might have read something that I haven't actually said. I don't hate my penis and you are right that aspect of dysphoria doesn't seem to be there for me, but I'm basically a virgin and I've more or less given up on relationships. I haven't even kissed a girl in two years. Its not that I hate my body but for some reason I feel very uncomfortable in the act of sex. I tried once with my high school girlfriend and once when I was like 21 and for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me. I can be aroused with somebody but the actual act of em, parts on parts, turns me off. Like I said in order to orgasm I basically have a virtual vagina and imagine the physical sensation that comes with that.

That is the whole part of this that causes the issue for me. Its ruined my self-esteem. I feel like I'm a weirdo in a world that seems obsessed with sex and the need to find a partner. And the longer it goes and the older I get the more I hate myself.

Humans are pretty obsesed with sex, you aren't a weirdo though.  Humans literally are one of the most sex obsessed species- females have concealed ovulation which pretty muchs make it good for the average person of any gender to enjoy sex at any time rather than in a season like other social animals or carnivores.  We are ALL weird if that helps.

Do you know anything about asexual orientations?  You can still be attarcted to someone and be asexual- not interested in the physical act of sex.  Asexuals can still have libidos, masturbate and even engage in sex.  It's just not really a priority for most Aces.  I don't think asexuality is ascribed to anything, it's just an individual thing for every asexual person.  Also, if you experience a DROP or massive change in libido or desires, you may want to consult with a doctor if it's not due to something easily explainable like HRT or something!  brain tumors can actually do strange things, like make normally contolled people do really crazy things they would never otherwise!IE: exhibitionism or pedophilia when they have never had such drives before.

Quote from: stellarj1 on April 07, 2015, 12:36:25 AM
This also says so much for me.

I can relate to a lot of what you said orange juice. I lived off of the attention of others growing up. I was attractive, good at sports (eve thought I loved playing them til I was 36!). I figured out how to live as a straight male. I easily would have orgasms with girls. Heck, I was married for many years to an wonderful, beautiful woman!

I lived this way til my mid 20's without batting an eyelash. There were major hints along the way, but I didn't acknowledge that they were even questions. I treated those thoughts so distantly, it was as if it was from another person and not me.

It's taken me 38 years to realize that things I thought that I loved (sports, being a professional photographer and editor, etc) I actually didn't love. I loved the how they could give me attention if I performed well. There is a subtle but fundamental difference.

Eventually I started to realize that I was a master manipulator of myself and of others. It wasn't to deceive anybody. It was to survive, because acknowledging that inner voice which had been completely buried would mean the unthinkable....hering that little voice that whispered, you are a girl.

The other voice in my head, my ego, kept me scared an didn't let me come near this.

You cannot live off of other people. Eventually it turns sour. Relationships start to go bad. Depression and Anxiety start to rear their head and eventually start to turn into illness and possible dis-ease.

I am not saying that this is you, but I do hear something in your story that is very similar to mine.

I didn't know that the feeling I experience in my life was dysphoria. I lived with it. It was a major nuisance, but I did the best I could while trying to figure out how to feel better.

But the older I got, the worse it got. Eventually, my resistance to myself and all of the running manifested into chronic illness. My body was screaming to be acknowledged. That little girl in me wanted to be heard.

Dysphoria gets worse as you get older unless you accept what or who you are dissociating from and embrace it.

Eventually I started to resent my family and friends in my 30's because I lived for them and I no longer got the attention I did when I was younger.

This is spot on for me