I think I know the difference between the two. But I'm afraid I'm confusing them?
I don't feel comfortable at all calling myself a woman but being a man doesn't sink in completely (is better than woman but maybe I'm just getting used to it, is that normal?).
I have a masculine appearence and I want to get top surgery and take hormones, probably. But there's this little thing inside of me that tells me I must be 110% sure before telling my parents and more people and all that stuff is external so it falls into the gender expression term. (right?)
I'd much rather get called sir or young man and be refered as with male pronouns, but is this about gender identity or gender expression? I look like a man therefore I get called a man. Gender identity is how you feel inside but I just know that I feel like myself and I don't know if I'm woman or man... This has been on my head for months now and I just cant figure it out. I just want to be regarded and treated as a man all the time...

I always think labels are pretty unimportant! Maybe you are more non-binary than binary? Gender identity is a very broad spectrum from people who feel very feminine to those who feel very masculine and every single shade between. Nothing wrong with that! It is perfectly normal.

Gender identity is definitely different than expression.  I think people feel the best when they are able to express their true gender identity.  I'm not sure I can think of a case where expressing the opposite is preferable.  When not cis, Because of gender roles and stereotypes, being able to express the preferred gender isn't always an option, and unless you are able to express it outwardly enough, people don't even notice it.  For example, I can have no facial hair and long hair, but nobody has a clue I'm trans and trying to express androgynous or feminine look because of other subtle ques.  It is even harder in some ways for FTM before HRT, but usually easier for FTM to express a male gender identity after HRT.

As Cindy mentioned, identity is a spectrum and you may fall on one side or somewhere in the middle.  Maybe it is on one side closer, but you may choose to present even more towards that binary than you really identify for various reasons.  How you present is basically gender expression, which does not always line up with identity. 

Hey,

the two are different, but we can definitely use expression to communicate to the outside world how we feel on the inside. So they can match, even though they don't have to for sure (a person can have very feminine gender expression and still identify as 100% male).

I can relate to the feeling of "I have to be absolutely sure before telling someone". But if you're questioning, this is something you might tell someone you trust. Discussing this with others could be very helpful and bring more clarity (this is my experience). As the others have pointed out, gender is a spectrum and you don't have to identify with either male or female gender (although society would prefer us to ).

Quote from: adrian on April 19, 2015, 02:37:06 AM
Hey,

the two are different, but we can definitely use expression to communicate to the outside world how we feel on the inside. So they can match, even though they don't have to for sure (a person can have very feminine gender expression and still identify as 100% male).

I can relate to the feeling of "I have to be absolutely sure before telling someone". But if you're questioning, this is something you might tell someone you trust. Discussing this with others could be very helpful and bring more clarity (this is my experience). As the others have pointed out, gender is a spectrum and you don't have to identify with either male or female gender (although society would prefer us to ).

Buga society

We are society and we are equal to anyone

Quote from: Cindy on April 19, 2015, 02:47:49 AM
Buga society [emoji23]

We are society and we are equal to anyone

[emoji106] [emoji16]  This.

I should have at least used quotes. "society". <insert pic of Joey from friends doing air quotes here>

I don't want to disrail Awkward-shark's thread. But hey. I'm privilged to know many transmen. They are men. Real men. No matter their gender identity or expression, they are honest about it. So many cismen cannot be or will not accept their spectrum.

Being a man is not physical strength, having a penis and testicles or drinking yourself to oblivion with your mates. It is attitude, being strong leaders, taking responsibility, being a man.

I tried. I couldn't. Because I'm a woman. I'm equal to anyone on this planet, but I am a woman. You are men; that does not previcate against emotion, gender expression or role modelling.

Be proud of that. Many, many Tmen display all the best characteristics of 'manliness', I am so proud to walk hand in hand with you.

Yes, we are society. We are normal men and women. We belong.

<Cindy stops ranting >

Thanks for your answers people. I also see myself more in the middle of the spectrum or like towards the male part... but not completely male.
The reason I'm mostly concerned about is that I do not only live in a binary society but also I speak a "binary" language (spanish) and there is no gender neutral terms like they/them. I'm a linguistic and I just can't make those up! I like language too much to try and change it... it would be almost imposible to do so, anyways.
What I'm trying to say is that on my daily life (outside of an english-spoken community like Susan's and other forums and blogs) I have to present as a male and there are no language for non-binary or queer or anything and people will most likely say "you just made that up". And of course, it'd be way easier to just say I'm ftm but.. I don't know how much I can relate to them.
In my mother thonge there is no way I can say I'm this or that only how I feel. As I said, I'm a linguistic and part of me loving words is that I also find comfort in them. That doesn't mean that I looove placing labels on myself, but that I feel safe when I can hold onto a word with meaning.
I've talked with some close friends and I feel very good about it, they use a short, gender neutral version of my name and also the masculine form when talking about me. I feel very good. Maybe I've been told often that I'm not trans enough (and by that they meant I'm not trans at all) and now I'm looking at every single aspect of my life just to be sure... I should stop thinking about what other people thing too.
I'm pretty sure my gender identity doesn't match my assigned sex, I don't know (or I don't know how to tell) in which way or meassure but that feeling is there.

I totally understand about the language -- mine (German) is similar. While there are gender neutral pronouns, they are extremely derogative when used for a person. I also very strongly believe that language shapes the way we experience "the world" (Sapir-Whorf and all that ) -- at least to some extent. I'm not saying, this is insurmountable, but the categories we have been taught can definitely make it more difficult for us to think outside of the black and white gender box.

And labels can be very threatening, but they can also give us a place we feel we belong. And please let me re-assure you that there's no such thing as "not trans* enough".

Quote from: awkward-shark on April 19, 2015, 01:32:37 AM
I just want to be regarded and treated as a man all the time...

In my opinion, AS, this is what's important. The rest is just distractions.

Identity is in your brain, expression is what people can see when they look at you. They don't have to match.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 19, 2015, 05:50:56 AM
In my opinion, AS, this is what's important. The rest is just distractions.

Quote from: ftmax on April 19, 2015, 09:07:56 AM
Identity is in your brain, expression is what people can see when they look at you. They don't have to match.

Ditto to both.
I've never been considered too 'effeminate', even if some of my behaviors or features have always been somewhat feminine. More than expression, it is what I see myself as and what I would be comfortable with that helped me decide my identity.