Quote from: lovelessheart on September 24, 2013, 06:39:38 AM
there is so much ignorance in this thread. there is no way you can clock a post vagina.. especially if they have went to one of the top surgeons. some of these girls that was 'cloaked' vagina must all be butched. i small a troll and it smells awfully like stool.                        ruling has been made. vaginas all come in different varieties. even women  who are born in the right body vaginas are sometimes ugly looking. get real. most of us are women here. some may be simply be drag. being happy and completed. our goal isnt to be like everyone else. just complete.    oh .. imo

I absolutely agree, I had several boyfriends over the years and none suspected I was trans, I guy did suspect, but it wasn't my vagina that clocked me, but betrayed by somebody. I dated my fiancé for 18months and he had no idea, couldn't  tell the difference, when I did eventually disclose my history he didn't believe me, he had other girlfriends before me, he is now my husband, Iv asked him heaps of times how my vagina compares to other women, with a twinkle in his eye he always replies ''its the best pussy he's ever had'' his words, not mine.
Its given me great confidence as a woman, all our vaginas are different, my goal was to be a complete woman, I'm now complete.

My neighbor has a Suporn vajayjay and she showed me. It was perfect. However things like her pelvis would get her clocked, not necessarily the operated part itself.

Vaginas do come in all shapes and sizes, but I think that there are some neovaginas that can be clocked. Some are much harder to tell. It all depends on the vagina really. All we can hope is that when we lay back and think of England the vagina is not a give away. Well this is for all of you post-op anyways. I hope that when I get to have mine I will have one that looks good, but hell will just be glad to not have a penis.

Eh, people seem to think that the worst type of insult anyone can tell a lady is that something belonging to her looks like it's mannish, belongs on a man, that she is "actually a man", whatever

women are under a LOT of scrutiny by misogynistic jerks who really don't know the natural variety vaginas come in.

And yes surgeries are more of an approximation but still, count me as +1 in saying that only someone knowledgeable about female anatomy would probably notice, which rules out a good portion of people. Anyone just seeing it in passing isn't going to go "OMG WHERE DID YOU BUY THAT BEAUTIFUL VAGINA???" unless they know about your journey already, of course

I plan to keep the lighting limited!

Heee Heee

He is going hell for leather you are both having a great time he is about to get his rocks off and stops and says----

I don't think this is a real one!

Right!!

This stuff obviously only pertains to those who are or plan to go completely stealth. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a sexual situation with anyone unless they knew my complete background.

It's nice to be stealth in public, but my genitals are not and will never be open for public examination

Yes they can be clocked sometimes, one does not need to be a doctor.
They can be pretty close to the ideal, but there will be minor differences.

Getting a good cosmetic revision may help.

Quote from: Jennygirl on September 29, 2013, 06:17:40 AM
but my genitals are not and will never be open for public examination

The case is different for sex workers as me who need to deal with potential transphobics/homophobics every single day to survive.

I can speak with authority since I have studied sexual dimorphism for years. It is NOT the neo-vagina what gets you clocked. Let me reiterate it: It is NOT the neovagina that gets people clocked. Unless, it is butchery, the ones I have seen and the one I have work perfectly fine. Think about it: imagine a truck driver with a perfect neo-vagina. What do you think it is going to clock the truck driver?

There are lots of urban myths about neovaginas. I can orgasm. I was told I would never be able to orgasm, but I can, and it is very intense. It is not psychological. It is physical.

I also get wet. However, if someone suspects about me, it is NEVER the vagina and it is NEVER the hands, as people think. Look, do you really believe that if you put manly hands on a genetic female she will be mistaken for a man? They might say she has manly hands, but she will still be a female. The clocking happens for other factors that have to do with voice and bone structure. Not simply being thin and small, but the shape of the cranium, the facial bones, are different. SOme are lucky to be able to get rid of masculine traits with FFS. SOme, no matter how many rounds of FFS they have, have a masculine, long skull.

However, there is a certain sadistic component in people, especially guys, who want trans people to think that yes, you can tell by the vagina. For a typical, average Joe, the thought of a vagina that used to be a penis is revolting. That is the way it is. The scariest thing for an average Joe is not to be able to tell.

A surgical vagina is higher positioned than a bio vagina.  Simply because the surgical vagina is positioned where the penis used to be.
And no swelling of labia majora and minora when aroused more often than not not getting wet etcetc

Quote from: Dahlia on May 20, 2015, 07:38:54 AM
A surgical vagina is higher positioned than a bio vagina.  Simply because the surgical vagina is positioned where the penis used to be.
And no swelling of labia majora and minora when aroused more often than not not getting wet etcetc

Maybe in the old days, not today. I remember reading an article that said this perception was caused by a hand-drawn  picture by a Johns Hopkins Dr in the mid 60s, which was not drawn to scale.

My ex as well as my current wife and I have looked at pics of post-op and OEM vjj's, they couldn't tell which was which.

Also, the neovagina is - by definition - going to have to correspond with the opening in the pelvis which permits access to the necessary space. The "male" pelvis is typically narrower with a smaller opening, but all that means is that there's likely to be *more* variation in vaginal placement among cis women. As Beth Andrea says, I haven't seen any obvious consistent differences, and I've been up close and personal with cis women's vaginas as well. I think another source of misunderstanding is that the penis shaft continues below the skin and deeper into the body; the neovagina is *not* placed where the penis "root" is at the base of the mons, and in fact I don't even have any scarring or other tells at that location - I'm not sure how!

(Funny thing is that in another thread people were insisting that a neovagina whose labia *did* swell and flush was clockable because that doesn't happen in cis women. Personally, I think that [again] the huge variation in cis vaginas and vulvas is sufficient to encompass most of the quirks of neovaginas as well. There are cis women without inner labia, cis women without a fourchette, cis women with scars... As with many things about being trans, it's all about the percentages, and as long as there aren't TOO many differences from the norm nothing will stand out as odd.)

Quote from: teresita on May 16, 2015, 07:31:46 PM
especially guys, who want trans people to think that yes, you can tell by the vagina. For a typical, average Joe, the thought of a vagina that used to be a penis is revolting. That is the way it is. The scariest thing for an average Joe is not to be able to tell.

Maybe this helps explaining:
gendercare dot com/library/italiano_paper1.html

"From months to sometimes years after skin grafting, the graft loses all of its skin properties and adapts to its environment, becoming a mucosa... (Sherfey, 1973)."

"they also showed that some artificial vaginas are capable of lubricating as well and as rapidly as any normally constituted vaginal barrel .. (Masters & Johnson, 1966)"

"Those post-operative male-to-female transsexuals who amuse themselves with the peculiar statement that they still have a penis, but that it's just turned inside-out should note that not only do they not have a penis, but they don't even have skin of the penis any more ....
It also responds to hormones in an identical way as does a normal vagina..."


hugs

Laura, thank you so much for posting this. You did me a huge favor. In fact, I can't stress this enough. I am very satisfied with my neovagina and I KNOW that is NOT what clocks me when I get clocked. It is NEVER that. Now, of course, if someone clocks me from something else, they will start looking at the neovagina for clues...

In my experience, not when it comes to Heterosexual Men.  I feel that most of them don't care or don't care enough to  know the difference.  They are so excited at the prospect of being with a woman sexually. 

I know my OBGYN in New York told me that my surgery looks incredibly authentic and so have my boyfriends.  I feel like we are our own worst enemy at times.  D:

Mine's neves been clocked & I've been with my share of guys.

obviously you will not be clocked by your vagina but it would be other things and all of that counting up with each other that will clock you

Quote from: doll89 on May 23, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
obviously you will not be clocked by your vagina but it would be other things and all of that counting up with each other that will clock you

Absolutely!

can you please elaborate on this?

that counting up with each other that will clock you

what does that mean counting up with each other? I am NOT saying that I disagree, I probably agree if you refer to the cumulative effect, but I am not certain I understood correctly.

Thanks