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I just had surgery with Dr.Haben

Started by HouseHippo, May 22, 2015, 01:15:53 AM

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anjaq

Ah, I think I do understand why its different in German. We have a formal version of "you" that is gender neutral and often used as a noun in a sentence. So it would be "What would you like to order?" and "you" is the noun, but in German it is a formal "you" that shows respect and probably is replacing your "sir" or "madam"...  Interesting. So while German is a very much gendered language in many aspects (there are almost always different words for a female doing a job or a male doing a job - like you have it in "salesman" and "saleswoman" - but this is like this in almost all job titles in German), short interactions are less gendered. Funny.

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Eva

Congrats and good luck ;)  Yea your post brought me back to my own surgery with Dr Haben... I was really impressed with how smooth everything went, they certainly have done this before.... For me to fly all the way across the country and literally have ZERO problems with anything down to the smallest detail is pretty remarkable... Dr Haben and his staff were great and the staff at the hospital were some of the best Ive ever had as well  8) 

Yea the recovery sucks but it will be over before you know it ;)
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Dena

The voice will have to wait as I am at work and I may be common knowledge but nobody has said anything about it. Besides that, a truck could roll by the office in the middle of a recording session.
I am not exactly sure how low my male voice would go because I think I was speaking from my throat instead of my chest. This voice has to be an octave above the old voice but still about an octave below the female range. The point is when my voice broke, it broke bad and the only way I can reach the female range hurts. That is something I was warned about and have paid close attention to. As the results, I have had no problems with vocal damage caused by improper usage of my voice. I suspect if I had wanted to remain a male, with some proper training, I might have done pretty good singing in the lower ranges but by the time my voice hit those ranges my head was dealing with other issues and the voice didn't help. In short, my old normal voice was somewhere in the mid 2 range. My physical size combine with a very large adams apple indicates I have a good sized vocal instrument which is not really what I want. I would settle for a much smaller model.

As for projection, I don't need it all at once and am willing to wait out the healing period. Funny thing is a slow healing period will be an advantage for me. It will allow for the people who know me but don't know about me to see a gradual change in my voice instead of walking and suddenly going from a low voice to a high one.
The projection I want would be a loud speaking voice and I don't need to yell. I deal with a number of half deaf people and moderate amounts of background noise. If the noise is to loud, I currently put off the conversation until I don't have to strain my voice to be heard. When I started pitching my voice I gave up the ability to yell and I have been able to get along pretty well without it but there have been a few time I needed some fast foot work to in range of a person to deliver a message.
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anjaq

Hi, Dena

I somehow think you are posting your replies in several threads - maybe it would have made sense to do your own topic and post everything there ;)

Anyways...

You can try different recordings - useful wouold probably be your everyday voice and a voice where you just totally relax and let go. You dont have to push it to sound male. Something that might me interesting though would be if you cound record a glissando while humming (humming and then go as low as you can and then as high as you can) to evaluate your vocal range. We can analyze this with PRAAT and tell you the notes, if you like ;)

Quote from: Dena on May 26, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
This voice has to be an octave above the old voice but still about an octave below the female range. The point is when my voice broke, it broke bad and the only way I can reach the female range hurts.

This is not physically impossible, just very very unlikely - it would place your voice in or below the C2 range, which is about 65 Hz - Dr Kim mentioned that some patients had voices as low as 85 Hz, which poses a problem since you can usually only gain 75 Hz with the surgery, which still would put them only in the upper male or gender neutral range.
Here is a conversion table showing Hz and piano key names. Male voices are said to be 100-150 Hz, female 180-260 Hz.

If you are right and your voice is in the lowest possible range originally, it would probably be in that 80 Hz range - so to reach 140 Hz which is the point you can go to, IIRC, already is a pretty big shift and definitely it is not adviseable to go beyond that by voice training alone. If my assumptions so far are true, VFS will not be able to give you an effortless female voice but you would have to add some pitch increase by training on top of that. Usually what happens if someone has a trained , piptched, voice and then has VFS is, the new voice will be the same as the old, pitched voice, but the untrained voice is gone and the new voice is without effort but at the same pitch as the trained voice before VFS.

QuoteIn short, my old normal voice was somewhere in the mid 2 range. My physical size combine with a very large adams apple indicates I have a good sized vocal instrument which is not really what I want. I would settle for a much smaller model.
This would match my assumption of your old voice being in the 80 Hz range (E2) which really is low but it is only a bit over an octave below the female range (E3 is gender neutral, G3 is already female range)
Since your physical size is so large (how tall are you? more than 1m90? are you thin or more medium sized or big?), a voice that is below female average is expected by others anyways. Do you get misgendered a lot because of the tallness and the very large adams apple? After all its a pretty well known gender marker.... Or did you have it shaved?
Size of the adams apple seems not to have to do a whole lot with pitch though. I have basically no adams apple but my voice still was in the 110 Hz range and considered in the lower male range.

QuoteAs for projection, I don't need it all at once and am willing to wait out the healing period. Funny thing is a slow healing period will be an advantage for me. It will allow for the people who know me but don't know about me to see a gradual change in my voice instead of walking and suddenly going from a low voice to a high one.
Well - it is hard to predict. But one thing seems to be an issue - if you dont use your new pitch, you may not get used to it and then it may be harder to use it eventually. But since you said you are already using a voice that is almost an octave above your natural voice, the difference will not even be noticeable by others, it will just be easier for you and you will have the option to use higher pitches at will, so you could eventually increase pitch as you like.

During the first 8 weeks and some more, I was not audible in a car that had a loud engine or in a bar situation. I was at a party after the 8 week mark but was basically mute because I could not talk loud enough to communicate to others since too many people were talking plus music was playing. I think now after 3 months, I might stand a chance. What is your occupation? Do you have a very loud workplace?


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iKate

Quote from: anjaq on May 26, 2015, 10:54:26 AM
Ah, I think I do understand why its different in German. We have a formal version of "you" that is gender neutral and often used as a noun in a sentence. So it would be "What would you like to order?" and "you" is the noun, but in German it is a formal "you" that shows respect and probably is replacing your "sir" or "madam"...  Interesting. So while German is a very much gendered language in many aspects (there are almost always different words for a female doing a job or a male doing a job - like you have it in "salesman" and "saleswoman" - but this is like this in almost all job titles in German), short interactions are less gendered. Funny.

Actually, in English one can carry on a gender neutral conversation quite easily. <--- this is a gender neutral sentence.

The problem is that society is so ingrained to gender people that it is more or less automatic to use sir, ma'am, miss etc. and it is done out of respect, sort of acting as a servant almost. I see less of it happening these days though. Good or bad thing, I think. Good because it's not triggering. Bad because I don't know if I'm being read.
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anjaq

Hehe, yes that is why it is a bit more confusing in Germany - you can not so often tell how people gender you because it is common to not use gendered language and it is easy to keep doing so in some situations - in others however it is just impossible because some things are strictly gendered (although the job description gendering - it is common to just use the male version in many cases and most people would not be offended by it)

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HouseHippo

Hey ladies thanks for all the replies, sorry i didn't respond to all of them I've been busy. Here's my two week update, so far so good. Still kind of raspy and a little pain here and there.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1jP18LiHW6q

how do i edit my original post to put this link in there so everything's all together? I want it to be easy for someone who doesn't have a lot of time to be able to find everything fast.
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anjaq

Sorry, the editing of posts older than a few days is no longer enabled because some people used it to delete all their older posts. If you want to edit something, you need to ask a Forum Moderator.

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Mariah

We can take care of that for you if you like. Anjaq is right, people deleting all their old posts is why it is now restricted after a certain time period. Just us know and we would be glad too. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: HouseHippo on May 28, 2015, 11:28:52 PM
Hey ladies thanks for all the replies, sorry i didn't respond to all of them I've been busy. Here's my two week update, so far so good. Still kind of raspy and a little pain here and there.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1jP18LiHW6q

how do i edit my original post to put this link in there so everything's all together? I want it to be easy for someone who doesn't have a lot of time to be able to find everything fast.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
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HouseHippo

Thanks for both of your replies.
Mariah could you put "http://vocaroo.com/i/s1jP18LiHW6q -- 2 weeks post op" below "http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Yf0RJjgsHh -- 8 days post op." on my original post? Thank you!
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Mariah

All taken care of for you. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
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iKate

Just remember vocaroo itself deletes the recordings after a certain period automatically.
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HouseHippo

Quote from: Mariah2014 on May 29, 2015, 04:36:26 AM
All taken care of for you. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
Thanks a lot :)

Quote from: iKate on May 29, 2015, 04:50:26 AM
Just remember vocaroo itself deletes the recordings after a certain period automatically.
I assumed it did which is why i included a mirror in my original post here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/js9jtumq725it8b/AAABgeHOkLqXe8Jb_l2RpLLla?dl=0 with all the files. Thanks for the heads up though
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Cadence Jean

Sounding better every time I hear you! I'm getting more and more hopeful for my results. :)
to make more better goodness

I have returned to recording on TransByDef!  Watch us at: https://www.youtube.com/TransByDef
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HouseHippo

Quote from: Cadence Jean on May 29, 2015, 07:04:37 AM
Sounding better every time I hear you! I'm getting more and more hopeful for my results. :)

Thanks :)! I'm looking forward to hearing your results. Almost a week before your surgery right?
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Cadence Jean

to make more better goodness

I have returned to recording on TransByDef!  Watch us at: https://www.youtube.com/TransByDef
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HouseHippo

That's exciting are you going to share results with all of us?
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Cadence Jean

Yep yep! My thread is here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=188034.0. I have before posted. Will post afters when I can talk. :) I'm thinking that I'm going to stick closer to the Yeson aftercare instructions and not speak at all for two weeks, and then minimally for the following two weeks.
to make more better goodness

I have returned to recording on TransByDef!  Watch us at: https://www.youtube.com/TransByDef
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HouseHippo

I tried to do two weeks no talking, but one week without talking was torture. I couldn't help myself haha.
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anjaq

LOL, I actually liked the no speaking period. It gave me an interesting new perspective and experience... I hoped I could keep some of those things into my normal life , but I think I did not manage to do that as much as I hoped.

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