Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on June 02, 2015, 03:10:48 PMThe odd thing about this issue is that many people (like myself) who are trans don't publicly identify as such. (I identify as female) I am rethinking this, however, that, perhaps, stealth is no longer necessary or desirable.

I believe this is the most important thing that can happen. While stealth or no stealth has to be (and is) an individual choice, and while I would not tell anyone how to make that choice, I applaud every person who chooses to be open about having transitioned, simply because if we all live in stealth, people will remain clueless about what trans* actually is, and their primary source or knowledge will still be media.

Personally I've chosen to neither attract attention towards it, nor to deny it. If it comes up naturally, then I'm fine with that. If not, and if I see no reason to bring it up, I'm just a normal woman with a somewhat deep voice. This is partly due to simply not having the energy to cover up my past, and not least the fact that I refuse to separate from family and good friends. And as long as I mix old and new circles and family, maintaining stealth is practically impossible. But it's also a choice I made to be visible, hopefully helping to 'normalize' being trans in people's minds. Once transgender people are people you meet in your everyday life, not just read about in media, it's a lot more difficult to write it off as publicity stunts and the like. I know for a fact that many in my family have changed attitudes after I came out; for them, trans* suddenly became tangible, something which affects people, people they love.

That said, I realize that for many, who live in bad neighborhoods or work in businesses where attitudes may be hostile, stealth is a survival measure. And obviously, I don't want people to risk their lives or economy. However, then at least I, who study at a liberal university and live in a city where people generally live and let live, can help increase visibility, and hopefully it will be a tiny, tiny contribution to future changes in societal attitude. Because we will not become 'normal' (I hate that word, but it's how many people think) in people's minds, unless those of us who are privileged enough to live openly, do so.

Sadly it's a big ole NOPE from me. Why, because now when anyone, even those of us who started transitioning before this, will suddenly be compared to her, or we are going to end up with a famous name thrown in to the your just looking for attention, just like ___________ was when they went on 20/20 and all of those magazines.

Face it yall....the this is probably the closest to mainstream acceptance were ever going to get... But hey, at least we can't get tossed into an asylum anymore!!!


But in two states it is actually grounds for a family member to have the police confiscate your guns because of a mental illness.

Yes, possibly. At the very least I think it helps solidify the path we are already on. I dunno about speeding it up, though. People need time to digest cultural change, and more importantly it has yet to be seen how far she will go with it as far as becoming an activist for the trans community.

On that note, I have no expectation of her to do anything but lead a happy life. But, holy heck do I appreciate that she is going through this in the public eye. That alone is noteworthy to me.

Agreed, I think she is rather brave and I applaud her for that

I think it will definitely help in the long run. The mainstream media now has someone who was famous before their transition. In that way it is much more similar to our lives (minus caitlyn's extreme privilege) because most trans celebs we only see who they are post transition, where our families and friends see us before and hopefully after. Caitlyn being accepted as a women in the media despite being seen as male for so long I think will help families to be more open minded towards that kind of thing

Quote from: iKate on June 02, 2015, 04:30:03 PM
Latest comment from a "friend" misgenders her extensively and said she's still not a woman because she is pre op and has a deep voice. And that's a nice version of what this fool said. But he still says he "supports" me. What the duck is wrong with people???

It's called being two-faced and there are lots of people like that, unfortunately. I try to keep my distance from those....


And I am wondering that as these famous people are out more and more if it will affect many trans women's ability to be stealth in the future if they so choose.

I think it already has in someways just from her being so famous which can help us all. The fact is it allows people to see what were like before and after that transition point which is something most have never seen or known and as a result their ignorance is all they had to work from. It's bit harder to be that way when you have heard and seen this transition happen practically over night considering the amount of time between the interview and these photos. Hugs
Mariah

It pains me to read the comments when the news stations post about trans issues, positive upbeat ones or not a huge majority of the comments are awful, nasty and hateful!

I am however very very happy for Caitlyn! And omg! Who wouldn't jump at the chance to have a photo shoot down by Annie Leibovitz! Sigh me up

This will definitely progress one thing for sure is that the issue now matter whether we like it or not is now in the general publics minds. For now most likely of course there is going to be resistance to this due to ignorance and the big fear of change. The funky part about all this really is and as I have read many times over the average transgender really wants this to be done in peace aka in stealth for fear of ridicule, abuse, etc Yet in the long haul I can see this as being a good thing once the dust does settle. The old adage of must break a few eggs to make an omelette fits all too well unfortunately its not eggs being broken but people.

For now it will show the open minded people and the apposing I cant handle this fear so it must be wrong side. In time I hope it will settle to a state of more normalcy but for now its a minefield but it is something we need to educate the public. I do hope somewhere in this docuseries  that Caitlyn Jenner does impart the idea that many transgender will not go through this in the same way at all as far as the media attention and privilege she has that would make a huge difference in itself. Not saying her transition would be easier in ways it would be much harder but no matter what it would be different even to some degree on the personal level.

The debate can also bring out the contrarian perspective as this opinion was just published in the Wall Street Journal. The headline is, "Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution" by Dr. Paul McHugh a former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. A sort of back-to-the-sixties perspective.

-AshleyP

EDIT: Removed links to year-old news article not in accordance with posting guidelines

Quote from: AshleyP on June 03, 2015, 03:17:45 PM
The debate can also bring out the contrarian perspective as this opinion was just published in the Wall Street Journal. The headline is, "Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution" by Dr. Paul McHugh a former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. A sort of back-to-the-sixties perspective.

-AshleyP

OMG what a load of subjective nonsense that article reveals!  We can be grateful that man, who likely never heard of the WPATH standards, is safely retired.

Ok don't shoot me but there is one thing I do agree on is that the hormonal/surgery is not the total solution there is a mental component. I realize I am just in the start so my opinion might change but from how I see it the issue Is complex due to it is not entirely the physical nor is it entirely mental its a mix of both.  Unfortunately doctors go do school for mental or physical side of medicine not both which there in lies the problem if they don't work together. Which of course makes research into it a bit lopsided one way with out accounting for the whole picture and its many permutations of what it really is if that makes any sense.

Just an observation really in that research tends to oversimplify a bigger picture and things get misdiagnosed if you will.

Quote from: AshleyP on June 03, 2015, 03:17:45 PM
The debate can also bring out the contrarian perspective as this opinion was just published in the Wall Street Journal. The headline is, "Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution" by Dr. Paul McHugh a former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. A sort of back-to-the-sixties perspective.

-AshleyP

EDIT: Removed links to year-old news article not in accordance with posting guidelines

Any issue will bring out pros and cons.  A woman on CNN the other night reasoned that "God's plan" did not countenance "mutilating" one's body parts. (I wonder why the moderator didn't bring up the thousands of people who modify their body (plastic surgery) merely for cosmetic purposes, a practice that is almost universally accepted. We (the LGBT community) won the marriage equality debate. I feel confident we can win this debate as swell. But it will not happen overnight.

I am hoping we get the same movement of opinion that occurred on the marriage equality issue:

Quote from: kariann330 on June 03, 2015, 07:04:34 AM
But in two states it is actually grounds for a family member to have the police confiscate your guns because of a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria is NOT considered a mental illness according to the current DSM.

I had a family member repost that Johns Hopkins thing that also happened to be on a religious website. I read the whole thing and it did have some interesting points in it, but the idea that surgery isn't the answer really made me angry and worried that people with no actual knowledge from anybody that's actually trans would take it as the law of the land. Years ago I might have been hopeful reading it. Now it worries me that there are people out there that think the way to cure me is to remove me from the equation. It took me too long to accept this for me to accept someone trying to change who I am at the core as a viable option.

My parents seemed to really understand- it helped that this story was shared by someone that they've known and taken an interest in before she announced that she is transgender. I think this is a great step, a good look into transitioning (albeit everyone's journey is different)- it's increasing the scope of the community, people -want to know- and are not necessarily afraid of it anymore.

We're moving towards a point where having a transsexual history as a woman will not matter. We're not there yet but a lot has happened in the last two years alone.

And that is how I see myself - a woman who has a transsexual history. I am also not "stealth" but neither do I flaunt that I have that trans history. I won't deny it if it comes up but in general I ignore it, like other women ignore past health issues unless that topic comes up.

The transphobic are on the loose though so keep your guard up. They are starting to notice that some of their friends and family is supporting Mrs Jenner and that is gonna piss them of.

Here is a hateful message I got from someone who I told to get the f#@k of my friends post she shared (she is trans too). Transphobia Ahead Trigger Warnings



"The whole world is laughing at him. And you too if you think that is any kind of Normal.Dna Does not Lie. No matter how many Plastic  Quack Doctors chop on a body you are still what your Born. Thanks for showing me what an Idiot You are. So I can get rid of ya !!"


This guy is such a stupid ass that he didn't even realize that we weren't friends to begin with and I have an anonymous Facebook profile so there is literally no way he could get rid of me.

It always blows my mind when I go into one of my idealist modes and think how really simple humanity could create  a human experience that was truly mind blowing , but we don't.

What I'm noticing is that most people that were on the fence over trans issues have made a choice to support us. With more visibility of the trans community there will be more visibility of the haters as well. The haters are showing their true colors publicly now because their ignorance is forcing them to try to defend the "norms". When in fact we've known all along that there is no true normal just people.

In my life the Jenner story has helped me out a bit. Its allowed me to see who is a possible ally and who I should avoid. Considering I'm not out yet to many co workers and family its also given me a chance to defend who we are and educate them. I think we are finally seeing a shift in public opinion in our favor, but I think we need more time to see a universal acceptance.