I am confused.

My husband has not come out, but we are at a bad place in our marriage, 2 small kids, and zero intimacy.

I was flipping through his phone (with his permission of course) for some login info when I came across one that had a selection of Female as choice of gender. There were about 3 more, one with capital F, others with lower case.

He has chosen females as his characters in video games he plays. When I questioned it (years ago) he said he rather stare at a female than a dude.

He has a feminine way about him, that seems like he tries to "hide", like the way his hands move, or the way he walks. On one of our first dates (10 years ago) he ordered popcorn at the movies in a very girly voice. He did it a few times more, always when ordering food over the phone....I just thought he was messing around.

He showed me old audio recordings he did (he likes to play with music) where he used something to change his voice to a woman's voice...He said he was just playing.

He tried to commit suicide in his teens, but plays it off like he was just trying to get attention.

He mentioned to me early on that he felt asexual as a teen which is why it took him until 25 to lose his virginity.

He jokingly said that he felt like a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

He has shared gender-ish role reversal sexcapades (strap on's) he had with his ex - again, he shared this very early on in our relationship. Just playing around he would say.

I had worried there was something amiss when he could not maintain an erection. It has always been like this, but only recently did I wonder if it was something else weighing him down.

We went to our first counseling session today. She said there was something between us.

I want to talk to him about this, but I don't want him to get scared, upset...he already has one foot out the door...

Any suggestions? Advice? I feel so confused.

Hi Confused. Welcome to Susan's. I'm glad you came on here to try and understand everything that is going on with your husband. I hope it helps bring you some peace and understanding in whats going on with your husband and marriage. I'm sorry to hear your marriage isn't going so well. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

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thanks so much!

i am trying to understand. and i have to say, if it was not for Bruce Jenner's interview, I may not have been able to question my lack of understanding, and just kept on going until we cracked, or divorced. i just want him to be happy, and i want to be happy, and i want our kids to be happy. it is too much to ask for, i know....

how about - aware. can we all just be more aware & connected?

haven't found much out there for me, so this seems like a safe place to sort things out in hopes of not pushing him away further.

Hi confused8080,

Welcome to Susan's Place and congratulations for finding us. 

I cannot say for sure that your spouse is transgender, but you might want to prepare yourself for that distinct possibility.  My wife took time to process it all, but in the end was my biggest supporter.   I was depressed, miserable, drunk and suicidal for the longest time, but the dark clouds have parted now and my wife loves the new and happy "real" me even better.  If the positives in the end outweigh the negatives, then transitioning is likely the best solution to manage gender dysphoria.  Plus I get to rock a pencil skirt now, which is awesome beyond words to someone who had once resigned herself to jackets and ties.

Hugs,
~Jill

thanks Jill!

question: how do i prepare for that distinct possibility?

also, so happy for you & your wife.

i feel like my husband has been unhappy for a long time. he seemed so happy when we were dating & engaged & first married. so happy....

but now, it's doom & gloom.

Quote from: confused8080 on April 30, 2015, 02:30:53 PM
thanks Jill!

question: how do i prepare for that distinct possibility?

also, so happy for you & your wife.

i feel like my husband has been unhappy for a long time. he seemed so happy when we were dating & engaged & first married. so happy....

but now, it's doom & gloom.

Hi again,

I think you are already well into the process of preparing yourself for this possibility, as you are here and asking good questions.  I just hope that if and when your spouse comes out, that they can do so in a safe environment.  Had I experienced hostility, ridicule, shame and rejection when I came out, I'm honestly not sure I'd still be here.  A great, well qualified gender therapist very likely saved my life.

I understand the doom and gloom all too well.  My therapist, a PhD with an expertise in gender issues put it to me this way: when you are transgender, your brain physically more resembles the gender you feel you are rather than your phenotypical sex.  This means that my female brain is hard-wired to run on estrogen rather than testosterone.  As soon as I went on estrogen, something amazing happened- the doom and gloom went away.  I was able to get off of antidepressants, antianxiety drugs and I even stopped taking ADD meds.  My neurotransmitters and endorphin levels normalized, and I finally experienced things that cis people take for granted, like "happy" and "normal".

Perhaps suggesting your spouse talk to a qualified therapist who has experience with transgender issues would be the next thing.  Your kids truly deserve two happy parents, and let's face it, we are now at a crossroads for transgender acceptance.  There has truly never been a better time to be trans.

This is so true. Had I known what to expect I wouldn't have waited as long as I did to come out. I told one of my sisters and my parents a lot sooner than anyone else because I already knew they would still love me. I didn't expect the support of most of my neighborhood or the people I work with.

Quote from: Jill F on April 30, 2015, 02:57:58 PM
Hi again,

I think you are already well into the process of preparing yourself for this possibility, as you are here and asking good questions.  I just hope that if and when your spouse comes out, that they can do so in a safe environment.  Had I experienced hostility, ridicule, shame and rejection when I came out, I'm honestly not sure I'd still be here.  A great, well qualified gender therapist very likely saved my life.

I understand the doom and gloom all too well.  My therapist, a PhD with an expertise in gender issues put it to me this way: when you are transgender, your brain physically more resembles the gender you feel you are rather than your phenotypical sex.  This means that my female brain is hard-wired to run on estrogen rather than testosterone.  As soon as I went on estrogen, something amazing happened- the doom and gloom went away.  I was able to get off of antidepressants, antianxiety drugs and I even stopped taking ADD meds.  My neurotransmitters and endorphin levels normalized, and I finally experienced things that cis people take for granted, like "happy" and "normal".

Perhaps suggesting your spouse talk to a qualified therapist who has experience with transgender issues would be the next thing.  Your kids truly deserve two happy parents, and let's face it, we are now at a crossroads for transgender acceptance.  There has truly never been a better time to be trans.

thank you all so much!

it does come as a comfort.

do you think it would be ok to mention all the things i noticed about him over the years? or do you think it would be better if i just waited for him to tell me? do i come right out & ask, or do I tell him what i see?

i think you should mention all the subtitles you've notice over the years but remember, this is a very sensitive matter so if you want to bring it up, you have to be careful. you can talk with a therapist who deals with gender dysphoria in your husband's place and see what you should do. than bring your husband in and have the therapist mediate the conversation. this way, whatever the outcome is, you'd be able to keep your marriage together and not risk backlash   

I am probably in the minority, and because I am not therapist or marriage counselor my opinion counts for NOTHING.  With that disclaimer, if you choose to continue reading ... well I can't stop ya... 

In my opinion, you are husband and wife and should communicate about anything and everything that may be affecting your relationship.  Good or bad.  But for the closeted spouse (as I once was), this is a very scary issue because of the very intense fear of losing everything ... spouse, kids, family, friends, job, etc.  It sounds like you also have a fear of losing him and the life you built together. 

If he is having gender issues and you are willing to be supportive of him, then you starting the conversation with that affirmation might be the best thing that could ever happen for him, you and your relationship.  Once i realized my wife was not packing my bags and making me a reservation at the Holiday Inn, I quickly became a happier and better person,which in turn made her happier and our relationship has gotten better in all respects.

If he is experiencing some gender confusion issues, be prepared that even he may not be fully understanding of those issues at first.  I thought at first I would be satisfied expressing my true gender around the house in private, but that just became the first step to me really understanding the depth of what I was repressing.

Not sure if you actually wasted your time reading this whole message, but if your still around, I wish you and and your husband the absolute best.  I always root for a good love story and couples staying together.  But please keep going to your counselor and getting real advice.   

thanks for the insight.

we spoke last night.

we talked about our issues first - what's not working. i prefaced it with, no judgements, supportive, i'm here - open minded....and i was able to fit in my preoccupation with his female side.
i mentioned a few things, but he laughed it off. first he scoffed, and then seemed irritated, but then he thought it was funny.

he says he doesn't know how the gender on some of his logins was chosen as female. he said he didn't do it - "why would i do that"?

and when i reminded him of things he had said, his nose wrinkled & he asked, "i said that?"

so it was quickly dismissed as my own crazy antics, and the conversation moved on.

Hi confused,

I think it's great that you signed up here to learn more and get support -- welcome ! Talking to your husband must have taken a lot of courage and I'm sorry that it didn't leave you much wiser and that he was so dismissive. You cannot force him out of the closet (if he is in fact trans*, which is impossible to decide or "diagnose" for anyone but him). I can relate to the worries you must feel about the difficulties you are having in your marriage -- I'm in the reverse situation with my husband (meaning I'm the one who is transgender, he's the one who is in denial and wants to split up).

Give him some time to process the things you told him yesterday. Coming out to those who are really important to us is one of the hardest things. And often, to come out to ourselves, accept that we are transgender, is even harder. So if your husband indeed should be in this situation, he may need time to think and process.

I hope you can find a way of communicating openly!

Adrian

I knew I was trans a LONG time ago, but I was in DEEP denial about it too. I wasn't able to accept it until recently, but I didn't have anyone to help me. I think now that he knows its ok, I think it should help him get over the self denial quicker.

Quote from: confused8080 on May 01, 2015, 05:32:07 AM
so it was quickly dismissed as my own crazy antics, and the conversation moved on.

Did you believe it?  Was he just being prideful?  I can't tell you how many times, as a cis-male, I said "no" to something because men don't admit fault, and was then "forced" to double down on the lie because men don't budge.  Ugh.  Stupid macho hivemind.

I wore a bra for a prank once.  My wife reached up for a squeeze to be silly.  Six months later, I worked up the nerve to tell her that I was weirdly turned on by that.  That was in 2011.  3 months ago, I admitted to myself and my wife that I was willing to consider transition.  This can take a very long time.  Especially if "the man" has said "No.  This is how it is.  This is how it always will be."

Quote from: confused8080 on May 01, 2015, 05:32:07 AM
...
so it was quickly dismissed as my own crazy antics, and the conversation moved on.

This reminds me of myself...
I was in "deny everything" mode before I came out. I wouldn't admit liking anything the slightest bit feminine.

Quote from: Lynne on June 03, 2015, 01:36:44 PM
This reminds me of myself...
I was in "deny everything" mode before I came out. I wouldn't admit liking anything the slightest bit feminine.

I was denying so hard that I was denying, even to myself, that I was denying. It's amazing how deeply you can bury things in your mind. I can only remember about a sum total of a month of my life before I was 12. I know I was unhappy, that I had suicidal ideations (which I never spoke of) quite young, perhaps as young as six. I never quite knew why, even then. There are some dark secrets in me. Some day I may know. I began to suspect something about my gender a decade ago, yet compartmentalized every inkling of thought very quickly. In the moment I could remember having such thoughts previously, then they would all just slip away.

Confused,

I agree with most of the above posts so, +1.

I just came out to my wife about 2 weeks ago MTF. Not the best present for our upcoming anniversary of 25 years. However, I was so confused or denying that it wasn't till this past January that I hit a tipping point and went to see a therapist. I went to cure myself of occassional cross dressing(see how that worked out). I had been dreading that talk for a month or two before it happened. It sounds like I approached the conversation kind of like you did and my wife's reaction was so understanding. She too was very worried about my mental status and how unhappy I was.

Not comparing or trying to rub salt in. I feel how hard the outcome of that conversation must have been for you. He may be in denial. He may have just been feeling exposed, backed in a corner and terrified. Maybe he really is purely male? Irregardless, it was a great and brave thing you did.

As you can see from all the responses we care about people here. That means both him and you.

I hope you find a way to find clarity for yourself, your husband and your kids.
With loving thoughts,

Joanna

These posts are some of the best advice and personal sharing I have read in awhile.  Every word rings true for me too.  That awful, terrible fear, denial and repression are amazing as I completely "forgot" episodes of crossdressing and more throughout my life.  Not until i was in intense therapy could I summon the truth.  Yes I was that sissy girl who now feels almost bullet proof as there is no more hiding or lies.

Like so many here it was my wife and therapy that saved me.  I was on a course to die while denying everything in that stupid macho way.  If only I had listened to my heart and followed my dreams decades ago.  I live that "fractured fairly tale" now.

Back to real time!  I must acknowledge how impressive it is that you are researching and willing to learn about what may well be an undisclosed truth.  From experience we can see that denial can be fierce but you have clearly signaled a willingness to approach the subject.  While you are admirably thoughtful, it does take two to tango. 

My wife finally said "I am going to see a gender therapist and you should come with me"  The rest is chronicled in these pages.  Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing.

I haven't even been in a relationship with another but I can tell you little bit about what is going on in your husband mind. First, you are already way ahead of where your husband is. You have seen the sign and Bruce Jenner resulting in putting two and two together to get four. I have only been on the web site for a couple of weeks now and I am amazed at the state of confusion in the heads of some new members. They know they have urges that are not normal but they are to close to the problem to see what we see. This is the case for your husband, it's like a little kid getting caught doing something wrong but not knowing why he did it. Your husband needs to become educated on what he is so he can put a label on it. The therapy visits will help but there is something else that may prove useful as well. On youtube you can request something called "The transition channel" that describes how to classify your self. If you watch it, you will become more knowledgable but you still may not be able to place where your husband is. If your husband watches it he may see a good deal of himself and find a name for his condition. Only your husband can tell us what he feels and what he is and at least he has started treatment. I hope it works out for you because you seem to be a very understand person to be willing to approach us for help.

An approach that is risky. 

Talk about your lesbian fantasy.....

Be careful...

Good luck.

Hugs,

Jen