Quote from: teresita on June 02, 2015, 11:07:04 PM

The two questions I have is 1) why hormones are so over-rated? On me, they just gave me the bads of a womanly body without getting rid of the bads of a male body 2) why is it so hard for therapists to understand my hate for shopping? It does like this: I have gender dysphoria. My dysphoria is still persistent after being POST OP (even though, I am glad I am post-op), hence, I avoid situations where I have to face my ugly, masculine body

I don't think hormones are over-rated... but I think the benefit is mostly psychological. Physical changes are mostly genetically related, meaning, either you get great feminizing result on body, or you don't. That also goes along with what kind of body built you have in general. Exactly same effects from HRT would appear different on someone with thin graceful built compared to one with larger athletic frame. Most people are happy with getting breast, and regard this alone as a great feminizing effects.

As for the face, hormones do almost nothing... other than little rounder chin and more fat on cheeks (which is often correlated with little weight gain). Anyone prepared to prove me wrong, please present a before and after photo, without make-up, same light conditions, same facial expression, same or similar hairstyle... and you will see the same face. The real changes are improved make-up skills, finding out what hairstyle or wig works for them, which shape of eyebrows work for them, improved skin quality mostly due to using proper skin care regimen, compared to nothing before and destroyed skin because of daily shaving... While hormones can't do much, a surgical facial feminization can be pretty magical, and dermatologist can be a saviour for those who shaved their faces for 20 or 30 years. The same is with the body... a surgery can change and improve where hormones couldn't do enough by themselves. There weren't much chances available even 10 years ago, but you have some seriously talented surgeons today who mastered lipo transfer and can do some really amazing things with it. For a very reasonable cost...


....Oh, and yes, I'm addicted to shopping ...

Women also come in all different attitudes towards fashion - it's a stereotype that all women love shopping.

I have yet to find a cis woman who thinks it's easy to find something off the rack that fits her body either, so I admit it does make me feel better to remind myself that even people who never went through male puberty have tons of trouble with whatever fashion designers think should be popular "this season." (Tall friends can never find pants; short friends ditto. Curvy friends can't get anything that isn't boxy or too tight, slim friends can't find anything that isn't designed for more boobage than they have... the list goes on.) As far as that goes, I have an easier time buying off the rack than my wife, so I probably still shouldn't complain.

But yeah, the fun of shopping for women's clothes wore off about the time that the fun of living as a woman did. Now it's part of normal life and a chore, most of the time.

I like shopping more a lot more than I used to, now that I actually buy clothing I like.

Quote from: mmmmm on June 03, 2015, 09:36:10 AM
As for the face, hormones do almost nothing... other than little rounder chin and more fat on cheeks (which is often correlated with little weight gain). Anyone prepared to prove me wrong, please present a before and after photo, without make-up, same light conditions, same facial expression, same or similar hairstyle... and you will see the same face.

For me they did a lot, but probably because I had fairly masculine face which features were defined by facial muscles not bone structure, so I ended up with narrower lower part of the face, reduction of upper facial muscles and rounded, fill-out cheeks. I dont wear make-up due to work related stuff, but people from my past do not recognise me on the street.

Not exactly same expression and conditions, but "more or less" (I kinda hate the third pic, but it was made a year ago anyway).

Oh Teresita,

Every woman obsesses about some aspect of her body.  Every woman!  Some have it worse than others.  There is no need for you to make this body image issue a "trans woman" thing in your mind; every woman experiences this to greater or lesser degree.  Some women learn to play up the features of their body that they love most, while playing down those aspects that they hate.  Other women suffer their whole lives over their inability to make peace with all the things they hate about their body. 

This is your life, doll face.  You're a woman with a unique history, but a woman like any other regardless.  You may as well make peace with what you've got.  Watch for the blessings; they're all around you.

Hugs!
Miharu

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 03, 2015, 11:59:43 AM

Cute!    Cuter!!    Cutest!!!

Quote from: stephaniec on June 03, 2015, 08:36:53 AM
My problem is not having the kind of money I need to fulfill my shopping fantasy.

Me too if i had the $ i would buy all kinds of cute dresses and nice shoes. I love dresses so much.

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on June 03, 2015, 12:16:55 PM
Cute!    Cuter!!    Cutest!!!

Lol, thank You, Miharu Barbie

thank you all for the responses. Someone stated that I have body dismorphic disorder. That is a bit far fetched. I mean, giving such a diagnosis on someone online, without even seeing them. I do not have BDD. I just have a masculine body. Is it in my mind? No, because people clock me, that means something is masculine.

Also, A line skirts don't work for me. I have wide hips. I have always had wide hips. HIps are not my problem. Also, we have to be careful when we say "look at women how they dress and try to imitate them". That is the worst piece of advice. My therapist used to say that. First of all, women, a lot of women, are fashion mistakes themselves. Just because you have seen a piece of clothing on a woman, that does not mean that the same piece of clothing will look good on you. Second of all, I do look at women. On a sunny day, they have their hair up in a tight bun and wear capris... they have not gone through male puberty. So, how someone who has gone through male puberty will wear capris when their legs are shorter than their torso? How will they wear a tight bun? Have you ever noticed a transsexual, even post FFS, wearing a tight bun? No, even when there are 100 degrees outside, we all have unrealistic, impractical hairstyles. So, that means that comparing ourselves to GG can hurt us.

It's true I don't wear a tight bun, I guess. Nobody in my area typically does (the teenage hair style is the high ponytail, the older women wear their hair loose or occasionally sprayed up). I do, however, wear my own hair long (nearly to my waist) and flowing loose, no "unrealistic, impractical hairstyle." Do what you like and think works for you! Which is kind of the advice in general - there's tons of fashion suggestions for all body types in women's magazines and online, including bodies which are boxy or short-legged or whatever.

But perhaps more to the point, there are masculinely-built cis women, and there are trans women with any "quintessentially feminine" feature you can name.

While I lived in the U.S., all of women's clothes and shoes at any standard size of lady's 4 were perfectly fit to my body. It was like a heaven for my fashion shopping. Anything from Wal-mart, Target, Costco or Marshalls was just perfect. It was cheap and so much endurable, and fashionable, too! Unlike me, Korean-American women at my age near my house complained that all clothes are too big, and they are always striving to find "petite' sizes.

Now I am in my native country, S. Korea, and most clothes in the street stores are too small in height length or hip size. My foot size is 264 mm (US women's 10), but the typical maximum size here is 255 mm for women's shoes. I have to search 'Big' sizes in online stores. I have many dresses whose length is too short, barely hiding my genital area.    For example:



Actually that dress fits well to my little daughter at age 11.

However, there are some type of clothes that I do not need to worry about the size. For example, skirts and summer dresses. Many women here at my age envy me, as I can wear clothes for the 20s, or even teens.

I sometimes order from Amazon.com or even from Payless Shoes. Even fishnet stockings here are too small, and I order from the U.S. stores with a typical delivery cost > US$10.

I always stop at Walmart or Target stores whenever I visit the U.S.

My problem is that I am a little bit addicted to shopping, and I refrain from impulse buying.

barbie~~

Most women look at other women at some point and say I wish I could be able to wear that.



Emily.. you proved a good point. Losing muscle mass is pretty evident and big change for your face. That does make a difference. I didn't have any muscle to loose on face, other than around neck, which made my adams apple a LOT more prominent and problematic.
I think your transformation is quite dramatic. You basically went from seriously masculine to looking naturally feminine, while wearing no make-up and (if I know correctly) more or less androgynous clothing choices. In very short time. I think hormones, and whatever else you did, worked pretty well

I know a lot of cis women who hate shopping for clothes my wife included she mainly hates it because she has a hard time finding anything that fits her like she thinks it should or if she likes something it doesn't come in her size... she used to spend a lot of time shopping with a lot of crying and anger thrown in until she found an outfit that was somewhat acceptable but after years of searching through stores she finely found a store that carries clothing in her style and size so now she just goes directly there which saves a lot of tears and reduces her stress... she still hates shopping but its a lo less stressful for everyone involved.

It is a love/ hate relationship for me. I love everything about shopping. I love the smell, the clothes, the excitement, but the one thing I hate is the weird stares I get while shopping. I have always dressed well and that is something I have every intention of continuing to do. I think my biggest problem is finding something that fits my rib cage- ugh- nightmare. However, yes stores like Catherine's, Torrid, Romans, etc... are all great stores. They are a little pricey but not if you catch a sale and go to retailmenot.com beforehand.

Melitta

the point I am trying to make is that we have to distinguish between looking unattractive and looking manly. Those are two different things.

Yes, of course, there are many unattractive cis women, there are women who hate shopping because they have an unattractive body, but, the point is that they can still wear anything and look women. On a transsexual, the point is NOT to look attractive as much as to look passable. I hope I made myself clear since there is this confusion going on. My cis-woman neighbor hates shopping because of her body type, yet, she can end up wearing anything and look like a woman. An unattractive woman? Maybe, but still a woman. I, by contrast, have to work twice as hard to get half of the recognition. That is why I hate shopping altogether and prefer not to buy clothes.

Quote from: teresita on June 03, 2015, 03:42:09 PM
On a sunny day, they have their hair up in a tight bun and wear capris... they have not gone through male puberty. So, how someone who has gone through male puberty will wear capris when their legs are shorter than their torso? How will they wear a tight bun? Have you ever noticed a transsexual, even post FFS, wearing a tight bun? No, even when there are 100 degrees outside, we all have unrealistic, impractical hairstyles. So, that means that comparing ourselves to GG can hurt us.

I do not think there is so much difference between what we can wear and what cis-women can wear.

Tight bun? I avoid it because it damages the health of my hair, not because I can not wear it or I look more manly. It is difficult to make a bun everyday, but I sometimes wear any hair style looking like a tight bun.



I may try make a bun this week. It will be funny but tricky to learn.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on June 03, 2015, 04:28:49 PM
While I lived in the U.S., all of women's clothes and shoes at any standard size of lady's 4 were perfectly fit to my body. It was like a heaven for my fashion shopping. Anything from Wal-mart, Target, Costco or Marshalls was just perfect. It was cheap and so much endurable, and fashionable, too! Unlike me, Korean-American women at my age near my house complained that all clothes are too big, and they are always striving to find "petite' sizes.

Now I am in my native country, S. Korea, and most clothes in the street stores are too small in height length or hip size. My foot size is 264 mm (US women's 10), but the typical maximum size here is 255 mm for women's shoes. I have to search 'Big' sizes in online stores. I have many dresses whose length is too short, barely hiding my genital area.    For example:



Actually that dress fits well to my little daughter at age 11.

However, there are some type of clothes that I do not need to worry about the size. For example, skirts and summer dresses. Many women here at my age envy me, as I can wear clothes for the 20s, or even teens.

I sometimes order from Amazon.com or even from Payless Shoes. Even fishnet stockings here are too small, and I order from the U.S. stores with a typical delivery cost > US$10.

I always stop at Walmart or Target stores whenever I visit the U.S.

My problem is that I am a little bit addicted to shopping, and I refrain from impulse buying.

barbie~~

I always shop at target, the clothes fit me perfectly.

Sorry, I think I didn't make my point clear - I wasn't confused, but trying to say that since there *are* cis women with the various body flaws that make trans women look masculine, there's tons of existing fashion advice about dealing with them. I'm not at all saying "if a cis woman can have this problem, a trans woman doesn't have things harder," because that's not necessarily true; I'm mostly suggesting a Google for "short legs" or "no waist" or whatever and see what's generally suggested to find flattering clothes for that look. It sucks that we may have to work harder than cis women to blend into the female population, but we might as well take advantage of all the fashion expertise out there!

(That said, I guess I'm super lucky, because I go out in jeans and T-shirt with no makeup and messy hair and still blend in fine. Sure, I look like a frumpy middle-aged woman, but hey... I am. I'm usually OK with that, though I admit shopping usually does serve to remind me that I'm older and heavier and less sexy than the designers want.)

Women's clothes? No.  But I despised shopping for men's clothes.  Hate, hate, hated it.  You're going to hate the way you look- I guarantee it!

Quote from: Jill F on June 03, 2015, 06:17:38 PM
Women's clothes? No.  But I despised shopping for men's clothes.  Hate, hate, hated it.  You're going to hate the way you look- I guarantee it!

LOL... Agreed