Do people treat you differently now that you're the opposite gender? I'd imagine they do. How do they treat you differently? I especially mean if they don't know you are trans.

Yes, they do. I haven't been consistently read as male for very long (just a couple of months now), but I'm noticing some changes. Before transitioning, I was "gender-non-conforming" to the point of confusing people: "Can I help you, sir... erm... ma'am... erm...?"  Now I'm just read as a guy, and it's wonderfully relaxing.

I'm also learning to do "guy chat" with men I happen to meet. It's hard to explain how it's different -- it's partly that I'm not looking out for how they're reading me sexually -- but there's a level of ease with other guys that's a new experience. I'm not used to having guys casually ask me for help, for example: we were taking canoes out of the river the other weekend, and a youngish guy pulled in to the landing in a very fancy fishing boat. First he asked me to guide him as he backed his equally fancy truck down the boat ramp; then, after driving it onto the trailer, he asked me if I'd drive his truck back up to the parking area, so he wouldn't have to jump out into knee-deep water. I don't think he'd have asked a woman to do either -- certainly not to drive his truck. I know there's some sexism at the bottom of this, but in a situation like this, it's pretty harmless, and it's nice to feel a kind of camaraderie that's never existed for me with either sex.  After I parked his truck we chatted a bit, and I said "Nice rig" in just the right Minnesota-casual guy tone, which launched him into the story of how he'd just bought it and it was going to be a big asset in his guiding business, etc., etc.. It was sort of cute, actually.

One thing that makes it easier for me, I think, is that I basically present as a geezer, so there's not that element of competition there might be between two younger guys. I'm just this harmless older dude...

My friends don't treat me any differently, though. They've known me too long, and I'm just me.

Yes, I understand guy talk better than girl talk already. That is one of the reasons I knew I was trans. I've never gotten along with women too well because they expect female reactions that I've never naturally had and they could tell when I forged them to make them happy.

I wouldn't be doing a rugged outdoor stuff, but I usually get along better with much older men through my twenties if it didn't bother them. The problem was I didn't want sexual relations with them, and they wanted straight sexual relations. I had sex with some of them anyway because I was attracted to them but uncomfortable in my own body. I have been a good looking young woman. I've always enjoyed getting close to older men. When I'm male I'll probably hang out with the gay older men more, then I wouldn't be afraid of them being sexually attracted to me after I'm done the surgery. I won't be too confident until after the surgery. I'll be happier being viewed as a man. I've always wanted a father figure.

When I was a 14 year old girl my grandmother was friends with a gay man who was very intellectual and had been a highschool English teacher. He was very impressed by me for being such a well read teen who only hung out with older people. I've never gotten along much with other young people. He told my grandmother later when I wasn't there that I was very literate and she should encourage me to seek further education. I had wanted to be a guy before my early teens. This man, a sexagenarian had quite an influence on me and I looked up to him and had a crush on him. No one I know knew until recently that I've wanted to be a gay man since before I met my grandmother's friend, and he further influenced my decision.

I hope this wasn't too much information for you, Tysilio.

Yes, in lots of ways.
* Women smile at me in public.
* Men look me over.
* Women are much more friendly and responsive when I'm friendly.
* My female students are much more comfortable with me.
* People interrupt me a lot
* In conversation, I often feel invisible, like people don't look at me or seek my opinion.
* People assume that if I don't agree with them, it's because I don't understand the issue. True even if I'm talking about trans stuff with cis people!
* Men who don't know I'm trans are much more friendly. Men who know I'm trans are much more distant.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 05, 2015, 07:53:04 AM
Yes, in lots of ways.
* Women smile at me in public.
* Men look me over.
* Women are much more friendly and responsive when I'm friendly.
* My female students are much more comfortable with me.
* People interrupt me a lot
* In conversation, I often feel invisible, like people don't look at me or seek my opinion.
* People assume that if I don't agree with them, it's because I don't understand the issue. True even if I'm talking about trans stuff with cis people!
* Men who don't know I'm trans are much more friendly. Men who know I'm trans are much more distant.

I'm sorry to hear that. These are some of the reasons I wanted to be male. Transmen will probably understand and listen to you more because they remember being women.

Sadly, yes, male privilege is a thing.

Quote from: Jake25 on June 05, 2015, 08:17:41 AM
I'm sorry to hear that. These are some of the reasons I wanted to be male. Transmen will probably understand and listen to you more because they remember being women.

Thanks, though I didn't intend them to be all negative. It's been a mix of positive and negative changes, and a net positive overall.

Sorry. I locked the topic by accident. Using my iPad in bed!

What I intended to post was that men and women trust each other differently.  Both men and women tend to have higher trust in their own gender.

Would a guy ask a women to reverse his car down a ramp to pick up canoes or a boat! Get real! Laugh.

Would a woman share her emotions with a guy! Sadly too often no, even with her partner.

I'm not sure why such behaviour has been ingrained. Seems silly but it exists.

Quote from: Jake25 on June 04, 2015, 07:43:55 PM
I've always wanted a father figure.

Father, daddy, or both (combined into one figure or separate)?

This is a great topic with interesting and provocative responses.  This is part of the beauty of being transgender.  We have that unique vantage point to really have felt the sexism, stereotypes, expectations and privileges of living in our "assigned" gender. Then, after transitioning, we get to experience the joys of personal integration and yet live in another culturally defined or influenced role.  I could write pages of examples that are both desired and loathsome reminders of what follows a gender identity.  I Echo Suzi's experience of being talked over, disregarded and treated so differently in group situations.  I am part of community meetings on a daily basis and stopped trying to change my voice partly because of how women are treated in a group.  I recognize that there are commanding and authoritarian female voices but we work harder for that validation and respect IMO. 

I was a Nurse anesthetist for 33 years.  A female anesthesiologist (typically an MD) and I would sometimes walk into patient rooms together.  People would often look to me (appearing male) for the authoritative answers and call me "doctor" regardless of our introduction and real status.  I have men who used to slap me on the back and share off color jokes or experiences who now seem anxious, look me over and actually try and hold my hand when I come into their office.  Yes huge differences in how we are treated. 

Part of this helps confirm for me that I did not transition to merely be seen as a pretty girl but to live as i genuinely feel with better integration of mind and body rather than for group approval.

The being talked down to or over is by far one of the biggest changes that I have seen so far. Hugs
Mariah

Well in all my life nobody ever seems to question my gender I'm consistently ma'am, miss, she, her etc, but I have to say that over the 30 or more years since my SRS I haven't really noticed any differences in the way I'm treated.

Then again as I grew up as a demi-girl before her time (thanks to my parents refusal to enforce any gendering), I guess perhaps I simply never experienced maleness. Maybe in a very real way I've been treated as a female all my life, and I just didnt notice, which perhaps is also why sometimes my experiences don't entirely resonate with the trans norms. Certainly looking at Suzi's list all those things just seem to me to be the way the world has been since I was born. I can never remember it being any different.

I suppose the only time that could have been different was in the brief period between my late onset puberty at 16, and my finally reverting to female appearance in my early twenties (no puberty blockers in those days). But  thinking back now I realise that back then, though I sported a beard, I was never taken very seriously by other males. indeed the whole reason I grew the damn beard was to try and be seen as at least a little manly, but I think most people probably read my socialisation and just ignored the beard, or effective treated me as a bearded lady.

How very odd that I've not entirely realised that before. So yes I would say that for me there has unfortunately never been any change, so I guess I don't really know what male privilege is like to have. At least that means I don't miss it I suppose.

Quote from: Cindy on June 05, 2015, 11:54:11 AM
Sorry. I locked the topic by accident. Using my iPad in bed!

What I intended to post was that men and women trust each other differently.  Both men and women tend to have higher trust in their own gender.

Would a guy ask a women to reverse his car down a ramp to pick up canoes or a boat! Get real! Laugh.

Would a woman share her emotions with a guy! Sadly too often no, even with her partner.

I'm not sure why such behaviour has been ingrained. Seems silly but it exists.

I was just about to say "yes a woman would share her emotions with her partner and other men" because I'm that way, but then I realize you probably meant cis people.

Quote from: Arch on June 05, 2015, 12:18:02 PM
Father, daddy, or both (combined into one figure or separate)?

What do you mean by this? I'm just saying I had no father, but I was close to my grandfather and I get along mostly with middle aged and senior men.

Quote from: Tysilio on June 05, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
Sadly, yes, male privilege is a thing.

Is there male privilege even for blue collar men with only a high school diploma?

Definitely. I have a good friend in that category, and he's quite aware of it. Men in general take up more space -- both physically, as when they sprawl and spread their legs when sitting (right now that's a thing people are noticing re: public transportation), and socially: they talk louder, feel free to interrupt women (or just ignore them), etc. -- and a man in a blue collar job still makes considerably more money than a woman in the same job (if she can get it). I could go on, but you get the idea. It's a general level, and sense, of entitlement.

Which doesn't, of course, mean that class, race, and other forms of privilege aren't also very real. As much as I dislike the term "intersectionality," it's a useful way to describe something most of us don't think about as much as we should.

I already speak loud, interrupt, and sprawl out on the city bus. I accidentally ignore a lot of things people say to me without thinking.

I'll be a gentleman when I can. I still will feel sorry for the women, it's hard for me to imagine how there are many women who enjoy their lives. Having been one I'll be more understanding than other men. The women couldn't be annoyed or feel like I'm perving on them because I'm not sexually interested in them. Probably the only dealings I'll have with women will be female friends from church and family members who are elderly and need help.

As I always thought living life as a woman the only REAL "nice guys" are the ones who don't want sex..so they must be either gay or a eunuch. So I'll be one like that.

Does that friend of yours know you're a trans man?

Quote from: Rejennyrated on June 05, 2015, 07:34:44 PM
Well in all my life nobody ever seems to question my gender I'm consistently ma'am, miss, she, her etc, but I have to say that over the 30 or more years since my SRS I haven't really noticed any differences in the way I'm treated.

Then again as I grew up as a demi-girl before her time (thanks to my parents refusal to enforce any gendering), I guess perhaps I simply never experienced maleness. Maybe in a very real way I've been treated as a female all my life, and I just didnt notice, which perhaps is also why sometimes my experiences don't entirely resonate with the trans norms. Certainly looking at Suzi's list all those things just seem to me to be the way the world has been since I was born. I can never remember it being any different.

I suppose the only time that could have been different was in the brief period between my late onset puberty at 16, and my finally reverting to female appearance in my early twenties (no puberty blockers in those days). But  thinking back now I realise that back then, though I sported a beard, I was never taken very seriously by other males. indeed the whole reason I grew the damn beard was to try and be seen as at least a little manly, but I think most people probably read my socialisation and just ignored the beard, or effective treated me as a bearded lady.

How very odd that I've not entirely realised that before. So yes I would say that for me there has unfortunately never been any change, so I guess I don't really know what male privilege is like to have. At least that means I don't miss it I suppose.

I've been in love with men's facial hair all my life. I had an uncle that I used to go kiss his mustache and feel it and he let me( I was just a little kid). I've complimented a few men on their beards and later I realized how forward that sounds for a woman to go up to a man and tell him how much she admires his facial hair...Later I realized I envied their beards and goatees. So hopefully after I start T I will be able to grown one. I've heard it takes awhile. I haven't even started  the T yet. A lot of things in my life now are in transition so I can't attend to it right away.

Quote from: Jake25 on June 06, 2015, 07:03:13 PM
I already speak loud, interrupt, and sprawl out on the city bus. I accidentally ignore a lot of things people say to me without thinking.

I'll be a gentleman when I can. I still will feel sorry for the women, it's hard for me to imagine how there are many women who enjoy their lives. Having been one I'll be more understanding than other men. The women couldn't be annoyed or feel like I'm perving on them because I'm not sexually interested in them. Probably the only dealings I'll have with women will be female friends from church and family members who are elderly and need help.

Oh there are lots of women who enjoy their lives, even some straight ones. I come from a lesbian background, so most of my friends are lesbians who thoroughly enjoy theirs and just don't think about men much, but I've always needed at least a couple of guy friends in my life.

<snip>

QuoteDoes that friend of yours know you're a trans man?

Yes. Yes he does, and he was great about it -- better than a few of my lesbian friends, in fact.  His response was basically "Oh, OK, cool -- that makes a lot of sense," and then we mostly went back to talking about mutual interests and other stuff in our lives. The funniest part was when I said something to him about starting to go bald, and he laughed, said "You have a LONG way to go!" and took his hat off to show his very shiny bare scalp. I realized that in the 10 or so years I've known him, I'd never seen him without a ball cap . . .

I knew going into this that there would be changes and there have been. I have lost the small amount of male privilege I had as a beta male and don't really miss it that much to be honest.

To me the changes are validating - it means that people see me as a female. I am getting treated just like the other ladies do.

Like the others have said - people talk over me and what I say gets disregarded. I am also seen as clueless - I was casually trying to ask a guy about his mustang one time and he blew me off as not knowing anything. He didn't know that I owned and built one of those with a hot engine LOL.... and his cam was probably too large from the sound of it, but what do I know? Lesson learned - I can't talk car talk anymore with guys - that's a guy domain.

In a meeting at work I asked a question that was completely on topic and was told by the guy running the meeting that we didn't have time to discuss that topic, and then he proceeded to let several other guys blather on and on and on about stuff that truly was off topic, running the meeting late. I think it was my first real experience with misogyny and being shushed, and I left the meeting fuming. I am a senior level employee with 30+ years of experience - and I got shushed 

On the good side guys go out of their way to be nice and hold open doors and speak to me in softer voices, and women are very chatty and friendly now. Men are finding excuses to stop and chat with me and they light up when I am nice back to them.

Even with the negatives being a women "fits" me far better than being a guy ever did. I just have to work a lot harder and smarter these days to prove myself.