Background: I am a MtF, not transitioning yet. Would be able to start hrt in next 4 years.
Blockers: telling at work (major), telling mom (minor).

Intro

My approach is -- I am making small steps and probe how far this can go without say. Living in the Netherlands. The only place I really have to come as a man right now is work. For that purpose I have a small pile of mens clothing. Things I tried so far are:

1. Shaving my body, to which nobody reacted
2. Wearing female t-shirt sometimes; mostly because I run out of mens clothing. Poeple react to this with some stares but nothing that would make me feel discomfy.
3. Sometimes speaking in an almost female voice. Ppl do rise eyebrows but do carry on.

First bump?

Recently, I moved to another location in the building. Today I tried:

4. Wearing an openly feminine watch; it is a shiny one and yea it draws attention. Most people would give it a stare but they do carry on.

Background to this: the Netherlands is a LGBT friendly country. I've seen men wearing pink plastic watches and nobody giving a flying f... . Since wearing my actual watch at work is a next small step, I made this move.

More background: My company's position to me being a 'transgender outside working hours' is neutral. Not that they said it. There I mean that I am confident they won't fire me for being myself on my own time. To complete the picture - it is unknown to me whether company would actually be 100% cool with transition. That is actually possible.

But today there was that female colleague that passes near me frequently, and does make face like she is going to laugh while keeping eye contact. I classify that as the response of a cis woman who feels female space being already invaded by a man wearing watch that she perceives doesn't match his sex. Thus, she pushes back by response that aims to make the 'perpetrator' feel uncomfy.

Oh boy, that goes into endangering 'safe work environment'. And it could be a debate whether she is endangering it by her response, or is it me by wearing the watch. I don't think I am ready for it, because discussion could fall back to coming out at work. And I am not ready to come out yet as the outcome could be getting myself slowly but surely fired. Not ready for that yet, but will be in the future.

So, yeah, thinking about that chain of events, if for an instant, I actually felt like crap. Thinking that someone can openly ridicule me in such a subtle way. Probably that would have gone otherwise if I tried the experiment with watch in a month since people who heard me discussing usual stuff are not quick to throw such random vices at me. Unfortunately, that woman and I just met. Sigh...

Any thoughts? Here are mine-

I have two courses of action: 1) as long as it is that single person, just carry on until it is escalated by the colleague; then give them some of your thoughts through filing harassment complaints; 2) just withdraw and meditate over it.

The thing is - it is my watch, I wear it everywhere so it is annoying I have to deal with this.

P.S.
Maybe 'coming out' is a better forum? I'd remove the topic and repost it there, but in that case I could lose a reply because the topic got removed.

I did something similar. Grew my nails long and began putting gloss nail enamel. Also began growing my hair long. No one said anything except one coworker who ended up becoming a nice ally.

Next I started HRT. My face gradually feminized, but it was so gradual, again no one noticed.

Then I pierced my ears.

Suddenly people were staring at me and asking me what it was all about. Weird that ear piercing tipped the balance.

I think in general, people don't like to comment. They figure it's none of their business and they don't want something heavy laid on them. Remember, LGBT or not, we all gender people as one of the binary genders, and if they still see you as a guy with feminine touches, they'll treat you accordingly.

My journey at work and my overall presentation was this.

I started to shave every day. Yes, this. Because I was a bearded brogrammer before that.

Then I started glossing and growing my nails.

I started wearing women's undershirts. Started taking low dose E only. Stopped after a month.

Started seeing a therapist. Started dressing underneath including panties and a bra. Wore fem tops under my clothes. Wore men's skinny jeans.

Switched to women's jeans. First day, nobody really noticed. Third day or so actually the CTO's assistant and dept coordinator noticed, and said, "so you're taking a selfie in your skinny jeans?"

Then I gradually just stopped wearing any men's clothes except a large fleece or sweater over my clothes. It was winter. PERFECT. Winter is the perfect time to cover up. I had started HRT on 12/1/14. I go to all my appointments fully dressed. I don't want to be misgendered. It happened once when I had the fleece on. Never again. I went to all my electrology fully dressed. And of course, to therapy dressed up. Still wearing pants (I haven't worn a skirt or dress to work yet but that will happen this week).

Meanwhile my hair is growing, my body is shaping with HRT including my breasts.

Eventually the veil began being removed, little by little. Summer helped push me. And today? I ditched the last of it.

You are reading a lot into her intentions and motivations behind her actions. It could very well be as you think it is but you have to be sure before making an official complaint. Doing that could not only turn people against you if you are wrong at a time when you might need support from your coworkers in the near future, but also put you in an uncomfortable situation with the management of you aren't ready to come out yet.

If I were you, next time she stares at you, just say hi or good morning in a friendly way. Her reaction to that will give you a clearer idea of her attitude. Give her the benefit of the doubt, it's then up to her what she does with your goodwill.

Be nice. Be courteous. But never be offended. People are naturally curious and generally are uncomfortable with change. Give them a little leeway. Don't let them openly harass you though.

It sounds as though you are just starting your journey. You will face many such situations in the future. Be confident and happy. Disarm them with kindness.

My best to yo.

Cindi

Thanks for the thoughts and support.

Compared to situations I've had in the outside world, this was but a minor bump.

In Amsterdam, it is mostly tourists and immigrants who give me trouble. The difference is I am much more confident about everything when not having to worry about keeping the job. Would post eventually about what I call anti-clocking /shaming ppl for clocking/.

Certainty about the watch being the ground zero comes from many opportunities to test. As an experiment, I took the watch off and put it away on my desk so it is not immediatelly visible. The woman would hold back the expression on her face until she'd find the watch. Then back the eyes to me to show - found it! I did say a nice hi on the second pass; but got no words back. Altogether the impression blends to appearance that I am an 'it' for her.

Part of my job is to work with people, observe them, figure them out, then make them do what I want and make them happy about it. Conclusions I posted are educated observations. Those were just unfortunate circumstances that the woman didn't get the chance to know me first. We will even that out with time.

@suzifrommd
So perhaps we can say it is worth testing if the shiny objects draw more attention than usual.
I will get my ears pierced eventually but un/fortunately by then new ppl will get to know me.

Quote from: Squircle on June 18, 2015, 03:22:53 AMIt could very well be as you think it is but you have to be sure before making an official complaint.

Actually, I thought this covered in 'carrying on until the situation is escalated by her'. My approach to handling situations usually exercises more patience than it is required. It is likely other ppl would report it sooner than I without my knowledge. Retaliation for reporting is not an option, at least not where I work. However, retaliation is a very vaid concern @Squircle. In some other work place, I might need to just suck it up until it gets better or until I quit myself.

The tactics is in one half what @Cindi suggested. It *is* about taking punches and being nice until it gets better -- or worse. That is, 'give them all space they need to correct themselves, or to make a mistake'. That is, until intolerance is expressed verbally or physically in front of a couple+ of witnesses. Once we are rolling down the worse path, a cooldown period should be allowed as shame is a powerful game changer. Otherwise, witness statements and my report shall go to ppl with power to smite.

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound weird , but it seems like your worry an awful lot about the kind of watch you wear that could of been a watch from a friend that moved away.  I mean if all of a sudden you appeared in a dress I could understand concern.

Wear the watch (since you know that is the object of her looking at you), and next time she makes eye contact ask, "What's up? I've noticed you pay attention to my pretty watch..."

And let her tell you.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on June 18, 2015, 09:52:39 PM
Wear the watch (since you know that is the object of her looking at you), and next time she makes eye contact ask, "What's up? I've noticed you pay attention to my pretty watch..."

And let her tell you.

Alright, that is a way to go.

My preference however is to have the other person mention it first. Otherwise, me being specific leaves a very nice option for their denial and counterattack. And a loud one (witnesses):

- What watch? Look, I don't know what you want, you have been watching me all these days. Leave me alone! Please!

Intent is very hard to prove. I'd let the other side be specific.

Update... since day two, the woman is just ignoring me completely. I am happy with that.

The rest is all peaceful. There is just some surprise on faces of my man colleagues, but nothing they'd actually say out loud. I can only watch that 'dude!' stare until it is gone.

As for the female part, some women started greeting me although that was not the case before. Yay. Outside work, I generally meet good approval rate from Dutch women who notice I am not cis. Just that one female colleague got this... proud? posture and act when around me. Can't really define yet what's on her mind. Who cares.

Besides, this is the watch:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Guess+Prism+16540L1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=B-KIVc-VHIPX7QbJjrC4Aw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg

And I forgot one thing. Since six months or so I also use cosmetic products that add some shine to the facial skin. I was getting some glances for that but people got used to it in a few weeks.

Things about watch kind of fell in their place. Thanks for the read!

per your request i will be glad to move it there.
Mariah

Quote from: michellemartine on June 17, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
P.S.
Maybe 'coming out' is a better forum? I'd remove the topic and repost it there, but in that case I could lose a reply because the topic got removed.

Alright, that girl is cool now.

But today there was another incident. I've got that colleague who is really good at insulting people and getting away with it. Today on a daily meeting he used a board behind me to write -

"It is a trap."

So that everyone else in the room sees the text near me sitting in a chair.
Then he hung his badge and drew an arrow from text to the badge.

I was like - really?!

Smart played. Smart played...
I got my first man stalker it seems.

Just keep wearing the watch with pride. Don't worry about the rude reactions_ they most likely are reacting like this because you are wearing part male attire, and now part female attire (with the feminine watch)_ and so it comes across a little unbalanced, confusing and awkward. You know that you are not weird but just trying to transition. What you are gaining is a comfort level with wearing the feminine watch; and that's really valuable. Just keep wearing it and people will get used to it, and you will get to a point where you just can wear it without worry. At some point, choose to add another feminine element: foundation, mascara, getting a manicure, lip gloss, or any other feminine element that you can think of being comfortable with adding. Then just keep going with it- If you can just start wearing grey women's business slacks and maybe a women's business suit blazer so you wont be wearing a combination of female and male that wont clash so much.   

It really gets a lot easier when you can get to the point where you can dress to the nines like a woman.
Harassment will still be there but you are just happier when you can live the way you want to live and let everyone else adjust to it rather than you making the adjustments to please everyone else.   

It kind of works this way when you try to merge the female into your world ever so slowly.

Hey pink.

Thanks for your comment. Yeah, I agree mixed appearance can produce more volatile reactions than a binary one. Please let me add just a bit more context --

Beside the watch, I was and am already wearing shirts that are feminine but single colored and just t shirts. My eyebrows are trimmed, and my face under a skin care regiment. I am already androgyne when I wear a simple hoodie. Sometimes by accident I would start talking to myself in feminine voice. The way I see it, a wig and removed facial hair will make me passable as far as the appearance goes. FFS isn't coming soon.

So, it is not the watch only, but it is the watch that triggered attention of a woman. Imo, this man colleague was reacting to a broader context. But my hands are tied until I come out there. Hence, "well played...". And maybe it is time I came out, at least as a TG, so things like "it is a trap" become recognized harassment if repeated.

Update.

Adding more stuff. Yesterday I started coming in heeled sandals. It was day for an internal business dinner; walked with my mgr for 1/2 mi like that. Those sandals force feminine walk in a way. Not a word gotten about it.

Soon to add a sleeveless hoodie that is but feminine.

However, it is hard to keep mouth shut. I am on a man's team, and there are remarks about the opposite sex; they are in the range of polite talk, but their nature implies I was a man too, which really itches me to have it out. Keeping it to myself still.

That's been one of the hardest things for me at work.  Talking with the guys in my department about girls and relationships and stuff in a chauvinistic kinda way, and I have to play along or bite my tongue.  I feel like I'm living a double life and when those worlds collide, it can be difficult to figure out how to act so I don't "offend" one party or the other.

I applaud you for dressing the way you do at work.  I wish I could just throw away all my boy pants and just exclusively wear girl pants, but I need to get some shoes to match.  I also want some girl shirts that I can wear without being overly obvious about it, but I haven't pursued that yet.  I've got some girl pants though and I wear them with my boy polo shirts and my girl shoes (heels), and I wear earrings and nail polish and sometimes a bit of makeup.  It's fun isn't it?  Just adding things slowly and nobody seems to say anything much along the way. 

There is the opposite end of the double life story. I remember start of Spring 2015. During lunch one female colleague was talking about dresses she ordered. And I held myself but a moment before I started to enumerate dresses that *I* bought. Omg, got adrenaline rush. That one was close.

So coming out and not having to hide anymore would allow me to actually be full time. Right now I am full time except on the work + commuting to/from work.

On Monday I start going to work in tight jeans. Will let them see shape of my buttocks.

More and more of my man clothing is getting decommissioned.

Time we started a countdown for you Hon!

How long before FT?