Quote from: Annabolton on June 28, 2015, 10:17:48 PM
I find some of these replies quite misguided... OP never said they were happy being a guy or strongly identified as one... quite the opposite.. What male who was happy being a male would strongly consider getting a "sex change"... they said they have always been very feminine and comfortable in a female role which to me is the most telling symptom for most male to female transsexuals...if your told your a gay man all your life by society you may start to try to accept that but that doesn't mean that's what you really are...

I agree. I tried to fit into every label except the "transgender" one, because I was terrified of the stigma and what that meant for me.

Looking back, I over-analyzed myself in an attempt to rationalize my own denial. I knew myself best when I was a 3 years old, and after I came out to myself.

To the OP, perhaps it's best not to think of transition as an end goal and this huge mountain to climb? I was scared of transition and that I'd go too far with it, so I broke it down into little pieces and made each decision in isolation.

For instance, I decided to have my facial hair lasered, becaused I hated it. I started taking finasteride, because I wanted to keep my head hair. I began wearing female androgynous clothing, because I wanted to and they fit me far better than men's clothing ever did. HRT because I didn't like male arousal, and was OK with breasts (love it now!). After 1-2 years, I pass pretty consistently to strangers, and receive plenty of compliments on my hair and body shape.

I hope this helps...

Speaking of those mental exercises, maybe instead of that where You have two sets of outfits, try imagining Your life as a woman? From the very moment when You wake up, take shower, do Your hair, dress up, make up maybe, then try to imagine all those small details which would occur during Your day? Not the fantasies (like guys hitting on You and showering You with presents), but real things, when You are just an ordinary woman who goes through her life? Guys checking You out and not really giving Your opinion too much value and You will be talked over a lot, You might get pushed around a bit more in public transport, Your strenght will be about 50% of what You have now and You will have to give a second thought about going outside alone after dark. On the other side, men will treat You with more kindness (sometimes) and women will sometimes give You some crap. And the other way around. There is more to this exercise, but I am still waking up and my imagination is still warming up, but still. Try it and see how it makes You feel.
Oh, and in Iran, where homosexuality is a crime and there is death penalty for it, they offer a choice between hanging and gender change - it's been said that gays who underwent SRS were not very happy afterwards because being gay =/ being female.

Hey there everyone, I deeply apologize for the late reply. I thought I replied yesterday (Sunday) but I guess it didn't take but uh yeah..

Quote from: runaway on June 28, 2015, 01:43:18 AM
Your post resonated with me in some ways, and I hope sharing my thoughts will help you figure yourself out.

Much like you, I've always been rather feminine in the way I prefer to present myself and interact with people. However, I've always been attracted to women, and I always thought it would be easier to be a straight man, rather than to be both transgender, and lesbian. I suppressed much of my personality so that I wouldn't be thought of as gay. Not because I'm homophobic, but because being thought of a gay man was the complete opposite of who I am.

I began to accept myself as transgender when I realized that even very effeminate gay men did not like being thought of as female, or having female pronouns used on them. In contrast, I secretly leapt for joy every time someone took me for a woman, or commented that my manner of interaction, thought process, or physical appearance was female.

When I started transitioning, I pushed the issue of sexual orientation to the background, so I wouldn't conflate the two. I decided to figure out who I was, before thinking about who I wanted to be with.

You mentioned you liked wearing tight-fitting, feminine items of clothing, and I do too.

Here's a thought exercise I found useful: Imagine an outfit you would like to put on for a social gathering, maybe a dress, stockings, heels, skinny jeans, V-neck top, etc. There're two identical sets lying on your bed, the only difference is that one is labelled for men, while the other is labelled for woman. Which would you choose?

I chose the clothing with female labelling.

p.s. I'm a big fan of Elysian Fields too! Lately I've been listening to Emily Jane White. Her album "Dark Undercoat" is my favourite so far.

To answer your question about the clothing analogy, I really don't know lol. I mean, I already do wear things like skinny jeans and even underbust corsets. Most of my clothing is tight fitting, I hate baggy clothes on me haha. Maybe woman because for some reason, there is a difference in "tight" clothing with male & female. I just like how feminine clothes hug the body snug.

And oh my gosh yes, another Elysian Fields fan. I was beginning to think I was the only one who knew of them at this point lol.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on June 28, 2015, 05:54:48 AM
Snip

Exactly. Gay culture isn't as open minded as it leads people to believe on the outside. Inside, it's very femphobic for some reason and that's what kinda makes things a double whammy for me (other than race because I am black).

About body dysphoria. I'm not entirely sure. I mean, I like having my penis but there are times where sometimes, I imagine myself having breasts because than I could wear a full corset lol But that's very rare.

Quote from: sparrow on June 28, 2015, 09:09:35 PM
I'm writing this under the assumption that you aren't trans, since it sounds like you identify as male and would rather keep it that way.  I'd like to challenge the notion that women can wear whatever they want... they get judged pretty damned hard, no matter what they wear.  My wife doesn't want me to dress more femme than she does.  Women in my field of work dress very plain, and fashionable clothes and makeup are disparaged.

You can find love, I'm sure of it.  It took me years to find my wife!  Have you tried looking for bi guys?  I used to identify as male and bisexual.  I liked fruity femme boys, and women of all stripes.  Manly men?  Yuck, if I wanted one of those, I'd look in the mirror.  (oops... now I hate seeing that guy in the mirror... but that's me)

Ironically enough, yes I have. But the problem was that these bisexual men were married and that's a no enter zone. I don't want to be the dirty secret or the homewrecker so no, I had no luck with that. I know that women get judged for their choice in clothing but not nearly as much as a non-conforming guy does.  But yeah, maybe it's a case of the grass is greener on the other side syndrome.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 28, 2015, 07:44:24 PM
you describe me completely between age 14 to 16....now at 19 soon to be twenty im happily living as the girl I always felt I was and everything just goes so much smoother when it comes to gender or sexuality related things...ask yourself... if I was born a woman would there have been any conflict with my gender or sexuality at all? For me the answer was no there would've been zero conflict...my social and love life is ten times better now and I can act and look how I truly feel and have people appreciate it instead of ridiculing me...I tried labeling myself s a feminine gay boy for awhile but it was miserable and never felt nearly as right as being my full self as a girl has been...you really should prioritize exploring transition no matter the cost cause it sounds like your at rock bottom

See, that's the thing. Even though part of me does like being a boy, the struggles and hardships that come with being a feminine guy is just unbearable at times. I remember I did try and "butch" myself up back in high school but it never worked. In the end, I reverted back to my quiet, introverted, feminine self. I think to make matters worse, I have a twin brother (fraternal) who is also gay but very opposite. He's more into the masculine stuff and was always the one who fit in everywhere. I was the outcast. I was the "weird" one. Which I didn't really have a problem with until I noticed how different our lives had turned out. He's pretty much on the path to happiness with a job, lots of friends, a boyfriend, etc. While I have nothing... And it even gets to a point where he's even embarrassed to be around me. I just know it. One time when we were getting ready to go out to meet some of his friends, I was wearing my usual outfit and he suddenly said that they had to cancel. He still went out and met his friends (who were all guys) and posted on Facebook (that's how I knew he was lying). It really did hurt a lot at the time.

I just wish that for once... I could fit in and belong somewhere. I'm into the Goth subculture and even that is a little closed off to non-conforming guys and not to mention, it's hard to meet others into the scene. So it really feels like I'm truly all alone and at 24, I can't see things improving unless I do something like a sex change because I sure as heck don't want to change who I am as a person if that makes sense?

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 29, 2015, 01:36:34 AM
Speaking of those mental exercises, maybe instead of that where You have two sets of outfits, try imagining Your life as a woman? From the very moment when You wake up, take shower, do Your hair, dress up, make up maybe, then try to imagine all those small details which would occur during Your day? Not the fantasies (like guys hitting on You and showering You with presents), but real things, when You are just an ordinary woman who goes through her life? Guys checking You out and not really giving Your opinion too much value and You will be talked over a lot, You might get pushed around a bit more in public transport, Your strenght will be about 50% of what You have now and You will have to give a second thought about going outside alone after dark. On the other side, men will treat You with more kindness (sometimes) and women will sometimes give You some crap. And the other way around. There is more to this exercise, but I am still waking up and my imagination is still warming up, but still. Try it and see how it makes You feel.
Oh, and in Iran, where homosexuality is a crime and there is death penalty for it, they offer a choice between hanging and gender change - it's been said that gays who underwent SRS were not very happy afterwards because being gay =/ being female.

I honestly don't know exactly how to think about this. I guess all that would be harder to deal with but it's not like I haven't been almost physically assaulted. I remember when I was walking home from college one day, some guys in a passing truck tried to throw a glass bottle at me while shouting "->-bleeped-<-got". The bottle messed and hit the curb a few inches away from me but yeah...

And I know that being gay doesn't mean the guy is a woman but that doesn't downplay my feminine mannerisms any less because I have no overwhelming masculine qualities at all...

would you say you see yourself as feminine? Or you just cant help coming across that way but don't want to? Both? answering that would help alot

1. Start electrolysis ASAP. If you're trans* this is an extremely important part of the physical transition, but its long, expensive, and painful, so get started as early as possible. If you are a feminine gay guy, and decide transition in't right for you, it will still be nice to wake up with a smooth face or at least make shaving easier if you don't complete electro.

2. Get a reputable therapist who does a lot of work with LGBT issues. they can help you work through your issues in life (although they're not some magical being who has unlimited insight into your mind that can solve all your problems in life). If you do choose to transition your going to need for HRT (if you don't go the Informed Consent route, but that's another topic) and bottom surgery if plan on including that as part of your transition. You might also just want to have someone to talk to who has seen it all before, because life (particularly other humans) can throw a lot of crap at you just for being trans*.

3. Do different exercises like the  "boy/girl mirror excercise", more cross dressing , makeup, and even going out in public en femme once you have some practice with the makeup and dressing.You might even want to try doing drag and seeing how you feel. Think about yourself a very long time from now as a man or woman, which makes you feel happier (or less miserable).

4. Meet other trans* people IRL. Make some friends and learn from them.

5. Life as a trans* person isn't always rainbows and unicorns. Sometimes things get really, really bad, and it seems like it would be better to end things. If you ever feel like this there are people who can talk to you. Many of us have been in bad places before and we want to help other people out of those really dark places.

Quote from: Elysian Fields on June 27, 2015, 03:27:36 PM
So I'm a 24 yo feminine gay man whose completely miserable with life. When it comes to how I am, I'm too feminine for people. I like wearing things like underbust corsets, tight clothing, and my overall demeanor isn't manly at all. Of course in the gay community, feminine gay men are hated or disliked... It's even worse when they are attracted to masculine gay men. Constantly met with the comment of "If I wanted to date someone feminine, I'd get a real girl" and other things like that... And who could blame them? Being gay means being attracted to men...

All my life, I've always felt more feminine. When it came to music, I mostly paid attention to female singers. When it came to tv, I always connected more with female characters than male. In school, I mainly had girl friends and hardly any guy friends...

I've taken a reflection of how my life is and how it has been for the past 7 years... No friends, no lover, & no job and all it links to me as a person. Feminine men are seen as inferior in the world... I've considered trying to get a sex change. I'm tired of being a feminine guy but at the same time, it's who I am. But it's brought me nothing but sadness and loneliness... I just wish that for once, I could be truly happy but I just don't have any hope for the future.

I've always been envious of women. They can be however they want to be, wear whatever they want to wear and no one will really bat an eye. But it's not the same for feminine men. I'm just so depressed. I just wish I could find some happiness, for once in my life...

I've been in your shoes, and I wish you strength and clarity in what you wish to do. The last paragraph outlines why I transitioned. I can be feminine without being judged. It's all really hard. I stand by whatever you choose to do.

Ally

Quote from: Annabolton on June 29, 2015, 10:39:58 PM
would you say you see yourself as feminine? Or you just cant help coming across that way but don't want to? Both? answering that would help alot

I definitely have a feminine personality/demeanor. I'm soft, shy, reserved, and my sense of style is borderline androgynous. I like being this way but I can't deny that it's made things so hard in my life with being constantly rejected and as much as I enjoy my own company, after living this way for 7 years, it really is lonely.

Quote from: rachel89 on June 30, 2015, 12:49:15 AM
1. Start electrolysis ASAP. If you're trans* this is an extremely important part of the physical transition, but its long, expensive, and painful, so get started as early as possible. If you are a feminine gay guy, and decide transition in't right for you, it will still be nice to wake up with a smooth face or at least make shaving easier if you don't complete electro.

2. Get a reputable therapist who does a lot of work with LGBT issues. they can help you work through your issues in life (although they're not some magical being who has unlimited insight into your mind that can solve all your problems in life). If you do choose to transition your going to need for HRT (if you don't go the Informed Consent route, but that's another topic) and bottom surgery if plan on including that as part of your transition. You might also just want to have someone to talk to who has seen it all before, because life (particularly other humans) can throw a lot of crap at you just for being trans*.

3. Do different exercises like the  "boy/girl mirror excercise", more cross dressing , makeup, and even going out in public en femme once you have some practice with the makeup and dressing.You might even want to try doing drag and seeing how you feel. Think about yourself a very long time from now as a man or woman, which makes you feel happier (or less miserable).

4. Meet other trans* people IRL. Make some friends and learn from them.

5. Life as a trans* person isn't always rainbows and unicorns. Sometimes things get really, really bad, and it seems like it would be better to end things. If you ever feel like this there are people who can talk to you. Many of us have been in bad places before and we want to help other people out of those really dark places.

I'm not really sure about the bottom surgery because well, I don't want to lose my penis... I like having it.

As for the boy/girl experiment, I wish I could do it but I still live with my parents and they aren't the most open-minded people in the world... They already criticize me enough because I don't dress like a typical guy, I don't know how they'd take me fully crossdressing but I may try it for Halloween this year.

I know that being trans has it's own challenges but like I said, I don't think it's nothing compared to what a feminine guy has to go through with constant rejection everywhere they go. I know this happens to trans people too but it does seem like in recent years, they have become more accepted in society as opposed to feminine men who are hated by the hetero and gay world.

Quote from: Jasper93 on June 30, 2015, 01:25:10 AM
I've been in your shoes, and I wish you strength and clarity in what you wish to do. The last paragraph outlines why I transitioned. I can be feminine without being judged. It's all really hard. I stand by whatever you choose to do.

Ally

Yeah, I just want to be my natural self without constant rejection and ridicule. But I'm happy you understand where I'm coming from.

Quote from: Elysian Fields on June 30, 2015, 04:05:36 PM
I'm not really sure about the bottom surgery because well, I don't want to lose my penis... I like having it.

I know that being trans has it's own challenges but like I said, I don't think it's nothing compared to what a feminine guy has to go through with constant rejection everywhere they go. I know this happens to trans people too but it does seem like in recent years, they have become more accepted in society as opposed to feminine men who are hated by the hetero and gay world.

Yeah, I just want to be my natural self without constant rejection and ridicule. But I'm happy you understand where I'm coming from.

Now we have the start of a direction. SRS would be bad for you but cross living might be a solution. In cross living you would remain pre surgical but would live as a woman. You would have to work out your sexual desires. Others who have more knowledge in this area should be posting shortly.

Quote from: Dena on June 30, 2015, 04:50:22 PM
Now we have the start of a direction. SRS would be bad for you but cross living might be a solution. In cross living you would remain pre surgical but would live as a woman. You would have to work out your sexual desires. Others who have more knowledge in this area should be posting shortly.

Yeah... I guess I was just feeling really emotional the last few days because I was noticing my circumstances and how bleak my future was looking at only 24. But I did look up some cross-dressing video earlier and I have to say, it looked like fun to try... But I don't know if I'd "pass", especially with my prominent adams apple and uh... Slightly big package...

The package can be dealt with.  Some people "tuck".  I'm average-sized, and tend to simply point my penis between my legs before pulling snug panties on.  I can wear moderately tight skirts and not show.  Wouldn't do jumping jacks, but it's nearly comfortable and lasts 'til you pull 'em off.  Thongs can be used to set tension.  Many girls just wear pants that don't require tucking.  Some go to rather great lengths.

'Course, I don't pass in the least.  Medical corrections to that are available, but it all gets pretty costly.  Hormones are reasonably affordable, as is an orchiectomy (nuts out), which stops the flow of testosterone (making estrogens dominant at a lower dose) and as a bonus, makes tucking much easier.

Some guys just dress femme.  I'm a scientist with an industry job, and I'm gradually coming out as a crossdresser, at least... maybe graduating to hormones soon.  I kinda like Stu Rasmussen's gender: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/34147009.html don't know if it's me, but I'm considering it.

Quote from: Elysian Fields on July 02, 2015, 12:55:54 AM
But I don't know if I'd "pass", especially with my prominent adams apple and uh... Slightly big package...

Neither of those will get you clocked. No one genders people by their neck, despite what the Wong Foo / Julie Newmar movie would have you believe. As for the big package, mine was as big as anyone's but once I was on HRT for a few months, it became easy to push the boys back in and arrange everything else so that it neatly fit with in my panties.

Before surgery I used a girdle to keep things confined but I didn't have the knowledge of the other options that were available to prevent the bulge. As for the Adams Apple, that is a quick surgery. When you look at my picture you do see a bulge on my neck but thats my larynx. I am so skinny and my larynx so large I have to live with it. I did have my Adams Apple removed before that picture was taken and it helped a lot. I have a collection of accent scarves that I used to cover my Adams Apple in the past and it's one way around the problem but I no longer have a need for them.