Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anybody knows what causes dysphoria? Is it one of those things that doctors and scientists know exists but don't know what causes it?

I know I get dysphoria. I hate the feeling. It makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. If I knew what caused it, then I should be able to get cured, right? Life would be so much simpler without this dysphoria constantly getting in the way.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. I would like to see what other people's thoughts are on what causes dysphoria.

Jayne

I looked over your past post and it isn't clear to me exactly what flavor you have. I was transexual and I was uncomfortable with life in general. I was like the square peg in a round hole. The link applies to transexuals but I suspect many of the other variations are caused by the same thing. It short, it's a birth defect and I only know of one effective way to solve it. That is to adjust our life style to match our brain. Not everybody is like me and needs to go all the way but one thing is pretty clear to me and that is staying were you are isn't going to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism
If you have additional question, feel free to post them on this thread and I will do my best to reply to you

Hi Dena,
I am genetic male, however for pretty much as long as I can remember, I would go through periods of being certain I should have been born a girl. I have usually been able to suppress these thoughts, but whenever the thoughts returned, they would return with greater intensity. I am now 43 years old, and these thoughts are in my head pretty much every minute I am awake. The most confusing part for me is that I don't feel like I am a full "girlie" girl. On a scale of 1-10, where 1 is 100% feminine and 10 is 100% masculine, I physically look like about a 7-8, and inside feel like about 3.5-4. That is probably over simplifying it, but it's the best I can come up with right now. I like my lifestyle, hobbies, etc, it just feels like my brain doesn't match my body. I really don't like that feeling.

The link you posted suggests that there may be some biological link to determine transsexualism. Does that mean that there is some test that can be done (eg MRI, blood test, etc) to identify if someone might be trans?

Second question first. A MRI with dyes would probably give you a check but there is another side to it as well. I can tell you these feelings you have will only go away one way and that is to find a lifestyle you are comfortable with. 35 years ago when I was dealing with this, we had no clue what caused this. I was tested for intersex, hormone levels and all the best test they had available at the time and they all came back negative. Not knowing for sure other than what my feelings were I had to make a decision. After two years of cross living (money issues),  I found I was comfortable in life for the first time since my early teens. That was what I made my decision on and I never regretted the decision even at the worst times in my life after surgery.

I have never been full girlie mode. The male part of me is still with me and I call on it from time to time. I also feel uncomfortable overdressing and my look is more of a conservative office look when I dress up. Because I am in Phoenix and it's hot out there, my current uniform consist of a man's T shirt with gun club printing on it, shorts and tennis shoes. No makeup as this time of year it has about a 10 minute half life when I am outside. Do I look out of place around here?, No because pretty much everybody dresses like that this time of year.

I have hobbies like trap shooting, computers, photography and the ability to fix most anything that is repairable. This makes me a skilled female and not masculine. few people are 100% one way or the other so what you need to do is find that mix that make you comfortable and be happy with it.

Some in the medical community  (not all) believe that it is determined "in utero" between the 1st 7 to 10 weeks of gestation.  There is a testosterone spike that occurs early on and if one has the XY chromosomes (males) the amount of that spike will have a bearing on the amount of masculinization the fetus will develop and, as well, the ultimate development of the person. This also effects females (XX chromosomes) they also are exposed to the testosterone spike, but it is generally not at the levels of the male.  The  females that do, however, sometimes may exhibit some masculine physical traits. Now this is just my opinion based upon my research, observations and reviews of the literature available. Also purely my opinion and my experience  - the brains of those of us that that are non-cis will experience a "trigger" at some point in their lives that will set the dysphoria in motion.  (some early in life some later) for me it was at age 8 or 9.  When this occurs there is no way to turn it off, believe me, I tried for over 50 yrs. The sooner we accept it and integrate it into our lives, as best we can, the happier our lives will be.     

I'm a firm believer in evolutionary branches within the human tree. Natures genetic experimentation. The human being is still trying to achieve it's maximum potential and we as transgender are just a part of natures wonder.

Sorry , but I left out important things out of my previous post.  For those of us who are Trans. (as in my case a Trans Woman) When the testosterone spike occurs, ours is not as pronounced as a cis male and we fall below the high end. Thus, our brains and bodies don't develop as those of cis males.  In my case, no adams apple, hypospaidia (an intersex condition) no pronounced brow bone, sparse body hair, no incidence of acne in puberty (typically caused by very high testosterone surge) & most significantly gender identification as female.  This could be related to chemicals present in the mother's body during the first stages of fetal development (some possible caused by medications or external sources the mother was exposed to).  In cis females, the testosterone spike can be greater than normal, resulting in gender identification as male.. All of these things occur in a wide spectrum and can result in the phenomenon of LBGTIQ which we are seeing more and more of every day thanks to the "Information Superhiway" we travel today.

This is really interesting, I'd not considered a biological mechanism before.
I've often wondered about my own body. I'm genetically female but I have masculine body hair growth (not facially sadly). I also have very big hands and feet for a female, a masculine hairline, and my breasts didn't develop properly, leading to initial difficulties breastfeeding my baby.

This has got me wondering if there's something biological going on with me. Definitely food for thought.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 31, 2015, 03:43:51 PM
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anybody knows what causes dysphoria? Is it one of those things that doctors and scientists know exists but don't know what causes it?

The portion of our brains that determines our gender is heavily wired into the part that feels emotion. So the messages we get about what gender we should be (in the case of MtF or FtM, the opposite of body sex) are delivered emotionally. We feel happy when we see ourselves as one of the gender our brain is wired to be. We feel unhappy (dysphoria) when we see ourselves as not that gender.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 31, 2015, 03:43:51 PM
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anybody knows what causes dysphoria? Is it one of those things that doctors and scientists know exists but don't know what causes it?

Until fairly recently, the prevailing belief was that people are born "gender neutral", and the gender you identify as is the result of early life experiences. On that basis, thousands of babies with intersex conditions or other genital abnormalities were put through SRS. However, it's subsequently turned out that a high percentage of those reassignments have gone badly wrong, so much so that it's essentially disproved the gender neutrality theory. It's now generally accepted that gender identity is something that you're born with, and is built into the physical structure of your brain.

As with other aspects of sexual development, whether you get the male version or the female version depends on what hormones were present during the time your prenatal development was taking place. If there were high levels of male hormones (androgens) present, you end up with a male brain, otherwise you get a female brain instead. Whether you have a Y chromosome or not doesn't seem to make any difference at all (except that people with a Y chromosome usually have high levels of androgens throughout their prenatal development, hence generally end up with a male brain).

What seems to have happened with MTF transgender people is that they had male-typical androgen levels during the first trimester (which is the time when genital development takes place), hence have ended up with male genitals. However, something has then disrupted their testosterone production during the later stages of the pregnancy, with the result that their brain development has predominantly (or overwhelmingly in a lot of cases it seems!) occurred as female. The result is that you end up with a person that looks male but has a female gender identity. The opposite occurs in FTMs - something happens during the later stages of the pregnancy to cause them to overproduce or be overexposed to androgens, causing masculinization of their brain.

You can also end up with a situation like I'm in, where some of your brain development occurred as male and some as female. I think what happened in my case is that there was a hormone exposure incident during the second trimester of my prenatal development that temporarily disrupted my testosterone production, that means I had normal male development during the first and third trimesters, but a period of female development during the second trimester. The result is that my gender identity (and my entire psychology) isn't really male or female, but is kind of a mixture of the two.

Another reason for thinking that it's intersex-related is that an awful lot of us seem to have abnormal hormones and  other bodily characteristics that are often associated with intersex conditions.

Thanks for the replies. My dysphoria is not severe but it is enough for me to question what I really am. It can at times be very confusing, feeling both male and female at the same time. Sometimes the female takes over and sometimes the male side takes over. Very disorientating!
I was kind of hoping there is some kind of cure so that I can feel male all the time (since physically that is what I am). Unfortunately, from everything I am learning, there is no "cure" other than living as the gender your brain says you are.

I feel like I am defective because I don't have a very strong sense of being male or female. I don't reall fit in anywhere. I need to keep reminding myself that there are people out there with bigger problems than me otherwise I will spiral down into severe depression.

I am very grateful to all on this website for your support and kind words.

Jayne

Suzi stated it probably better than I could have. However, I would extend that to also the fact we would watch others be able to do or wear certain things and we couldn't and that would trigger it as well. Basically, the whole world around us can affect and trigger our dysphoria. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 02, 2015, 05:15:17 AM
The portion of our brains that determines our gender is heavily wired into the part that feels emotion. So the messages we get about what gender we should be (in the case of MtF or FtM, the opposite of body sex) are delivered emotionally. We feel happy when we see ourselves as one of the gender our brain is wired to be. We feel unhappy (dysphoria) when we see ourselves as not that gender.

Quote from: Mariah2014 on August 02, 2015, 03:36:55 PM
However, I would extend that to also the fact we would watch others be able to do or wear certain things and we couldn't and that would trigger it as well. Basically, the whole world around us can affect and trigger our dysphoria.

Mariah, that happens to me all the time. Couldn't actually put it into words until I read your post.

Jayne

i was born with a female body also,but have male genatelia,and this caused me alot of problems growing up,i identify as female but was forced to learn to be male by my dad..when i was 13 i came across transexualism and transvestitism,and hermorphidites,i identify more as a hermorphidite,for i have a womans body,breasts,no adams apple,very little body hair,but i have some male characteristics,male gentials,big feet and medium sized hands.

This is a genuinely interesting thread and fits well with my own self discovery and self knowledge.

I have to say firstly, I think I've said this before, that your transness is entirely your own. I more and more like the idea from sociology of phenomenology. You are unique and how far you are trans, and how you will personally manage it, are also unique. Passing through the guilt, transphobia, self hatred, hiding, denial, avoiding, and maybe drinking and drugging, working out your own place is the key.

It's often said on here that nobody can tell you if you are or aren't trans. That's what I first sought in counselling. I agree with this wholeheartedly.
It's also often said that you should speak to a gender counsellor. I did. I had more success though with a different counsellor who learned about gender issues from me. That depends on your counsellor though. Probably, a gender specialist counsellor would have got me to where I am sooner. They wouldn't have got me somewhere different though.

All gender is on a spectrum across society. As is 'sex' as in 'genitals' and gender presentation.
When you're in the trans part of the spectrum, think of the spectrum within the spectrum. There are cross dressers or ->-bleeped-<-s who are on one side, and the Jazz Jenning people whose first words were, "I'm a girl/a boy". I used to think I couldn't be 'a transsexual' because my own narrative didn't fit with those narratives. I also realised, on the path to waking up, that I wasn't a ->-bleeped-<- either.

Dysphoria, to get to the original post, is confusing, and strange, and deeply deeply uncomfortable. From reading others stories, it can reveal itself very early in life or much much later. From my own and others versions, it was always there, it just didn't have a name, a cause or a clearly visible shape.  You recognise it retrospectively though.

When it has been identified, it does seem almost impossible to ignore. It's a bit like Pandora's box in that you can close it, it's different in that it doesn't need to be destructive.

All of this has been pretty much focussed on the physical, chemical, biological factors that make us trans.
The radfem movement still wants to believe that gender is 'created' by our socialising and early childhood.  It isn't. Trans people are the only ones who truly understand this. But...they are a big factor in the way an individual receives and acts on their trans feelings and self knowledge as it manifests itself.

What about the financial circumstances you live in. Do you have lots of cash (Caitlyn Jenner) or none?
What is your concept of male and female roles in society? How closely to they need to be adhered to? What is your sexuality and does that encourage you to become outwardly trans or does it make you hide it?
What are your family circumstances? Race? Cultural values? Religious values?
Are you in a relationship? Do you have children? Parents? That are supportive or would judge you? Are you educated? Etc etc.

This is what, I believe, places us on the trans spectrum. We can move up or down it sometimes. We can change views and perspectives and understanding. We can't, without medication, change our bodies.

Dysphoria, for some is attached to their physical body, for others their role, and for others their sense of self and their feelings. There is going to be a unique blend of those for each and every one of us. There will also be gradations of severity I suppose. Not that I can ever know of course! Maybe some people just handle pain better than others. That doesn't matter really, it's all relative. Unbearable is unbearable. It doesn't ever help to know that there is somebody worse off than you!

There is an old saying about having courage to change what you can, serenity to accept what you can't and wisdom to know the difference. I think that is quite relevant to trans folk.

For me...I have awful (to me) Dysphoria. I place myself as non-binary, the vagueness and breadth of the label suits me. At the moment I am working out how far I will travel along the actual changing spectrum. I hope hormones (prescribed) will allow to live in a dual role way, for all kinds of reasons, without suffering from Dysphoria.

For you, if counselling, dressing, and acceptance won't work to cure Dysphoria maybe hormones are also needed. If that still doesn't work, try another step...and another.

I might have lost my thread a bit while writing. Sorry if I've gone off piste. MSG me if you like.
X

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 02, 2015, 03:15:02 PM
Thanks for the replies. My dysphoria is not severe but it is enough for me to question what I really am. It can at times be very confusing, feeling both male and female at the same time. Sometimes the female takes over and sometimes the male side takes over. Very disorientating!
I was kind of hoping there is some kind of cure so that I can feel male all the time (since physically that is what I am). Unfortunately, from everything I am learning, there is no "cure" other than living as the gender your brain says you are.

I feel like I am defective because I don't have a very strong sense of being male or female. I don't reall fit in anywhere. I need to keep reminding myself that there are people out there with bigger problems than me otherwise I will spiral down into severe depression.

I am very grateful to all on this website for your support and kind words.

Jayne

I don't know if this will help you but it appears you may not be sure where you are on the sexual spectrum. It is possible you might be fluid. I really don't have a good understand of fluid as I only heard about it a couple of months ago. I know the book definition of it but that's not really understanding what a person feels like.  I would suggest for starters, you go to youtube and request "The transition channel" and see if the video series can help you clear up some questions you might have about yourself. It's possible  after viewing it you may feel you are more in the center of the spectrum instead of on either end.

Quote from: cassieohpia on August 05, 2015, 04:38:31 PM

When it has been identified, it does seem almost impossible to ignore. It's a bit like Pandora's box in that you can close it

That statement seems so true. Thinking back, it seems that my Dysphoria has always been there to some degree but I had never known what it was. Now that I have identified it, it is there 24/7. It isn't always severe or unbearable, but it is there. Pandora's box is a good description!

Jayne