In my family there is some bad genetic "history" breast cancer obesity etc. I spoke to a counsellor who said I was the first transgender person she had spoken to. She said that hormones would not make you fat. But  she did seem knowledgeable about transition.

Funny enough getting paranoid about lumps in your breast seems like part of the whole womanhood thing. So I don't actually mind that much. strange way of thinking I know.

I just wonder if transition without estrogen is possible, like antiandrogen (to halt the male thing in it's tracks) then facial surgery.  You would basically be a girl rather than a woman, but you know close enough.  This is at least a option right?

Well yeah it's possible. I mean anything is possible really.

But why don't you seek the advice of a MD or DO who can run tests and determine your suitability?

I'm not sure , but if you don't have T you need E and vise versa

There are female impersonators who present a very believable image but it is harder without the changes estrogen bring to the table. It also depends somewhat on how much of the female body you are willing to live without.

As for weight gain, Estrogen instead of T will cause you to need less food. If you follow your bodies  requirements, you shouldn't have much of a problem putting on excess weight My current weight is 180 pounds and my max weight is 190. Yes I went above 190 for a while but it was due to cleaning up left overs when I was't hungry. Now there is another thing to be careful about and that is progesterone. If your body is over sensitive to it like mine was, you become horny and hungry. If that becomes a problem talk to your doctor about it because in my case, he halved the dose and I was back to normal.

As for the cancer risk, the doctor can test for some genetic forms of cancer. It is also possible to use a low dose that will result in slower development but reduce the risk of cancer. This is something you need to talk about with your doctor because it is different from person to person.

I believe it can work but it's going to be challenging. May I suggest that you pursue this with a doctor's guidance so they can monitor you and track your progress.

I don't know I mean I would like estrogen because of the brain effects (I think it may cure my depression) . Why would I need testosterone or estrogen would my health decline if i did not have one? Could a potential answer to this could be to lessen, but not eliminate testosterone.

I should discuss this with my doctor, but I don't think that estrogen will cause morbid obesity because I believe that woman seemed to know her stuff. 

You need either estrogen or testosterone, not having either is bad for your bones.

Some people on HRT report having less depression.  I wouldn't say this is the case for me, though I am getting less dysphoria and I am less upset about the struggles of transition (because I finally started).  However, other struggles in my life are still there.  You might feel better on oestrogen, but there's no guarantee that you will not be battling depression just from this single change.

You do need to have testosterone or oestrogen.  They are important hormones and aren't just involved in making you masculine or feminine, they are involved in a lot of processes.  I recently discovered that testosterone interacts with muscles and red blood cell production.  Both oestrogen and testosterone help with bone strength.  Testosterone does a better job, but you can get by on oestrogen (increased risk of osteoporosis as you get older).  If you were to have neither hormone in your system then you'd have really bad osteoporosis in only a few years.  Doctors won't go along with that. 

Your chances of breast cancer increase.  This is partly because you will have increased breast tissue but it is also because of your oestrogen levels.  You could talk to your endocrinologist about aiming to have a low level of oestrogen still in the female range.  Trans women are currently put on oestrogen schemes that will put them on the higher side of the spectrum. 
You could also do what many cis women do and get checked genetically for the breast cancer genes.  If you have the gene you might consider regular breast exams/mammory scans and even having a double mastectomy followed by breast enhancement. 

Or you could remain on testosterone.  Some people find they can live perfectly happy on the hormones they've always had. 

Hope this information helps you.

For me my brain needs it the rest of the side effects are a bonus. Without sex hormones osteoporosis is the risk

IIRC, breast cancer in transwomen is virtually unheard of.  (Still worth checking for it each month with self breast exams and regular visits to the endo, but really not an issue.  You're right to be concerned though, but only to the point were you seek proper medical advice, not speculation from an inexperienced therapist and the dismal collective wisdom of the internet.  Go chat to an endocrinologist.

Obesity?  Jeez, probably if I'm anything to go by.  Since starting hormones, I've ballooned.  Muscle mass drops, ability to exercise at sufficient levels consequently drops, calories consumed subsequently get turned into lots of fat.  But that's just me.  I lack self control and I kinda like the curves the chubbiness brings.  With caution and ratcheting down the calorific intake, there's no reason why HRT would lead to uncontrolled weight gain.

As others have said, a healthy body needs balanced hormones, either normal male levels or normal female levels.  The risks of cancer and obesity are probably slim compared to the very real risks from hormonal imbalances.

Bottom line - go see a good endocrinologist who has experience treating transwomen.

Weight gain can happen for many reasons.

Muscle mass decreases.  This is because you no longer have androgens in your blood, which help you gain upper body muscle.  Your lower body muscle (legs, butt) don't need androgens, so you'd actually have no decrease in leg strength.  You can use this to your advantage.

You'll have lowered cardio fitness.  Oestrogen lowers your red blood cell count, meaning there's less oxygen carriers.  Oxygen is necessary for anything involving endurance so you'll be weaker for that.  All this means is you need to train more to get back to your old levels.

Your body will need less energy.  Just eat less food in this case.  See what other women your size eat and see if you can stick to their portions.  Don't starve yourself, and if you need help finding the right portions then maybe speak to a dietitian. 

Many people see weight gain, but that is only going to happen if you fail to adapt to your bodies new needs.  I'm definitely not an expert in doing that, I eat the same amount (although sometimes I struggle to finish my meals because my body knows it is changing) and I haven't exercised as much as I should have in order to keep my leg strength.  It's a learning process, though. 

I doubt your counsellor is a qualified physician or endocrinologist. You should consult with someone who can run the appropriate tests and advise you on the likelihood of complications of taking estrogen. Even with some chance present, taking the medication with the proper medical supervision should allow for any complications to be detected before they become chronic.

Quote from: highlight on August 20, 2015, 08:50:04 PM
In my family there is some bad genetic "history" breast cancer obesity etc. I spoke to a counsellor who said I was the first transgender person she had spoken to. She said that hormones would not make you fat. But  she did seem knowledgeable about transition.

Funny enough getting paranoid about lumps in your breast seems like part of the whole womanhood thing. So I don't actually mind that much. strange way of thinking I know.

I just wonder if transition without estrogen is possible, like antiandrogen (to halt the male thing in it's tracks) then facial surgery.  You would basically be a girl rather than a woman, but you know close enough.  This is at least a option right?

I've known people who did several years of solely t-blockers, and who then augmented with e. The effects of blocking t only were nominal relative to effects brought on by estrogen.

Anecdotally I think what Jasper says is right. The T-blocker(s) will help with the dysphoria and will have some smallish effect in other ways but for real or noticeable transition to be happening I think you need E. As others have also mentioned, this will help with bone density too.

I think that obesity is genetic not a choice. I have had a family member who has WAY more self control then me and has went on all kinds of diets some of which are so intense that they require doctors overview.

I think that morbid obesity is worse for you than having a lack of hormones. I guess the nightmare scenario would be a choice which boils down to being morbid obese or being a man forever.

I don't know what I would do then. 

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 22, 2015, 02:10:59 AM
I doubt your counsellor is a qualified physician or endocrinologist. You should consult with someone who can run the appropriate tests and advise you on the likelihood of complications of taking estrogen. Even with some chance present, taking the medication with the proper medical supervision should allow for any complications to be detected before they become chronic.

Yeah I get this, but she did seem knowledgeable as if she has some idea. perhaps she did to answer these exact kinds of questions.

*
An alternate to actual ERT are herbs and spices and foods that provide phyto-estrogen or enhance phyto-estrogen (e.g., soy, rosemary, black cohosh, squaw vine, yam / sweet potato, egg white, fennel).  A herbalist or herbologist can help you understand the pro and con of this.  I was off meds for 13 months last year and this year and, with only phyto-e, I maintained estrogen levels in the post-menopausal range (+40) - normal for me at age 59 anyway.  I'm back on ERT since March (estradiol per day) and my labs showed estrogen in the normal adult female range (280)

Christine Jorgensen died in 1989 (age 62) with active breast cancer.  I do not know if her breast cancer caused her death, though she did die of cancer; I just don't know if cause of death was breast cancer, or another cancer, or another cancer related to her ERT.

If you are a cancer risk, be conscientious and perform regular breast self-examination so you know what you are supposed to feel like - every woman is different in her own way.  Mammograms are not painfull - the radiologist simply takes a 'photograph' of your breast tissue.  You probably will get one at the end of your first year ERT as your baseline scan.

Realise exactly what you wrote - now that you will be female, all your anatomical systems will be female and susceptible to all the same issues as any other female - good, bad, indifferent.

*


Mod Edit- No dosages please. TOS 8

Quote from: Sharon Anne McC on August 26, 2015, 05:18:10 PM
Christine Jorgensen died in 1989 (age 62) with active breast cancer.  I do not know if her breast cancer caused her death, though she did die of cancer; I just don't know if cause of death was breast cancer, or another cancer, or another cancer related to her ERT.

I was very fortunate to meet her a year before she died. I had some acquaintances (not friends) who introduced me. In the late eighties, Christine became my "role model" because she was the first and she looked fabulous as a young woman. I'm not usually a name dropper but it was very memorable for me.

I didn't start hormones until long after I could totally pass. It was a problem of finding a physician in the LDS (Mormon) concentrated state of Utah. The big game changer for me was getting the constant 5 o'clock shadow removed and that I pursued with vengeance while in Utah. I got enough of THAT done to where I could pass with just long hair and the right makeup and clothes. I moved to CA and within 4 months found work in my correct gender. After I finally had health insurance, I found a doctor who would help (it wasn't all that easy back then) and my HRT consisted of a daily dosage of DES. It didn't do much. It wasn't until after I had GRS that I finally was able to get Premarin. Even at that, I'm not sure that I saw that much change in my physical appearance.

I haven't had estrogens since 2002. My current endo won't give me estrogens. He doesn't see the point since my estrogen levels are twice that of cis women my age and he thinks the risks outweigh the benefits. In the time that I've ignored myself, I have been given a real treat: osteoporosis. So, now I'm taking the once a week pill. I've been out of state for the summer and when I return, I may end up going to Sacramento or the Bay Area to find a new doctor. Yuck, what a drive.

Cindi

Quote from: highlight on August 20, 2015, 08:50:04 PM
In my family there is some bad genetic "history" breast cancer obesity etc. I spoke to a counsellor who said I was the first transgender person she had spoken to. She said that hormones would not make you fat. But  she did seem knowledgeable about transition.

Funny enough getting paranoid about lumps in your breast seems like part of the whole womanhood thing. So I don't actually mind that much. strange way of thinking I know.

I just wonder if transition without estrogen is possible, like antiandrogen (to halt the male thing in it's tracks) then facial surgery.  You would basically be a girl rather than a woman, but you know close enough.  This is at least a option right?

With the right SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) instead of estrogen it should be possible to feminize without an increased risk of cancer.

I know of one SERM that may do the trick, but its a naturally occuring compound, not a synthetic, so a doctor wouldnt prescribe it. 

QuoteIn the late eighties, Christine became my "role model" because she was the first and she looked fabulous as a young woman. I'm not usually a name dropper but it was very memorable for me

Not trying to take away from the work she did, or what she meant to you but, she wasn't the first, by any stretch of the imagination. Lili Elbe is considered one of the first known transsexuals. And there would have been a few before her.
She had surgery in 1930 in Germany; where Magnus Herchfeild had already invented the term "transsexualism" and worked on early diagnostic criteria and treatments that would later be added to by Harry Benjamin. He provided endocrine services and gender surgeries to gender minorities and worked toward law reform to stop police harassing queer people. Parts of Berlin were a sort of world capital for queer culture... Then the Nazi party seized control of the government, burned down his institute and destroyed all of his work.


There's a book about Lili's life called "The Danish Girl" that's being developed into a film.
This is a well known painting of her. She did a lot of modelling for an artist (Her wife, Gerda Goittlieb), and it caused a bit of a stir when people found out the model was a trans person.