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Myths in our community that need to die a quick death

Started by Nero, December 07, 2007, 07:35:08 PM

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katia

Quote from: Alison on December 09, 2007, 08:30:50 AM

Are you suggesting I leave Katia? 



no i'm not suggesting anything.  i was merely pointing out what i (me, katia) would do.  fyi i don't feel threatened by you.  why should i?  i have my identity, you've got yours.  we may not agree all the time but that doesn't mean we feel threatened.  just a thought.  anyway..
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Nero

#41
Transmen have it easy.

One lot has it easier than another


Something I wrote in a previous topic in response to such notions:


Quote from:  link=topic=22813.msg173187#msg173187 date=1197165575

it's easier in terms of the fact that the vast majority of transphobic discrimination and violence is perpetrated against transwomen.
i don't know about others, but the fact i am seen as a woman instead of a man is devastating for me. i have nothing at all against the queer community, but i am tired of the 'dyke' stares and comments. i don't like going out with a woman and being seen as her lesbian lover.
i am not a dyke. i am not a butch. i am not a woman period.

the experiences of transmen and transwomen are different. one does not have it better or easier than another.

unpassable transwoman (those who don't look like women, for those who dislike the term 'passable') are more likely to face transphobia.

unpassable transmen have no way of declaring their manhood other than vocalizing to people that they are male. there is nothing an unpassable transman can do to make it clear they are presenting as male.

testesterone takes a more savage toll on a woman than estrogen on a man. thus, many of the effects of testosterone on transwomen cannot be rectified and are hard to overcome.

transmen do not have the option of truly fixing their bodies. the options available leave a guy with poor results. even the best outcome (meta) leaves a guy looking abnormal down there at best.
i've come to terms with my genitals, but this still remains a great source of pain for many transman. even if other men sharing the locker room have no clue he's trans, there will still be stares and maybe questions. he will never look like a normal man down below.
imagine your only surgical option being an obviously malformed vagina.
most transwomen need SRS to be whole. but transmen's genital surgery does not leave one whole.
the lack of a penis is a great source of pain and dysphoria for many transmen. how could it not be? when all of society says manhood equals a penis?
sexism cuts both ways. feminine men are demonized, imagine how a man without a dick feels.


i used to think transwomen were luckier. i thought there could be no more degrading position than to be a man born female. then i realized it was beyond arrogant of me to assume my hardships were greater than anyone else's.
a really tacky cliche, but true: the grass is always greener on the other side.

and none of this is to discount the world-wide violence against transwomen, which troubles me greatly.

Posted on: December 08, 2007, 08:14:25 PM
One more thing i'd like to point out:

Transmen are not necessarily strangers to violent crime. I may not have experienced transphobic violence, but i know what it is to rely on your wits to get out of rape and possible murder. i know what it is to targeted for robbery because of appearing to be female.


Posted on: December 09, 2007, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: Jeannette on December 09, 2007, 06:41:09 AM
My hands and feet are smaller than the average biological male.  I must be some kinda intersex (N is going to love this one :laugh:)


Exactly. That goes along with the myth that if one can somehow claim to be intersexed or that they never had a normal body of their birth sex, it validates transition and is 'proof' of their identity.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 09, 2007, 02:16:45 AM
1. All trans women are selfish, delusional bitches.  8)

LOL only some of them are.
This was funny.   :laugh:
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Pica Pica

Quote from: Rebis on December 08, 2007, 05:08:48 PM
Myth = My identity is not valid.    >:(              >:(


Truth = I'm the one who knows myself. No one else does.



I'm holding back a lot of anger right now.

I don't feel anger at it. I feel smug amusement.

I know something you don't know, I feel something you don't feel, I am something you don't accept,

all good stuff
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Alison on December 09, 2007, 03:57:43 AM
Quote from: Katia on December 08, 2007, 07:11:50 AM
Quote from: Seshatneferw on December 08, 2007, 06:44:44 AM
The categories TS, TV, AG etc. can be defined clearly, are absolutely separate, and the criteria do not overlap at all.

:-\

  Nfr


yup.  outside you can define yourself as you want.  while you are here, you must include yourself in any of these terms:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

plain and simple.

Excuse me?

I don't MUST include myself in anything.

YOU CAN NOT STRIP MY IDENTITY.

I. Will. Not. Let. You.


Biggest Myth Ever:
QuoteMyth = My identity is not valid.
Alison reminded me of what I am angry about. 
        I am a human being.  I will make my own destiny. I will not be invalidated and I will not disappear in order to make others comfortable or secure.  Short of killing me, no one else can define who I am.


Posted on: December 09, 2007, 10:45:09 AM
Quote from: y2gender on December 09, 2007, 07:26:42 AM
Quote from: Andra on December 09, 2007, 04:01:14 AM
(Mind you, it does help to live in a country that isn't full of bigots)

Andra,

What country is that? The one I live in is getting overrun with them  >:(

y2g
And, not only are they bigots, but they smell funny too.

Posted on: December 09, 2007, 10:51:03 AM
Quote from: Pica Pica on December 09, 2007, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Rebis on December 08, 2007, 05:08:48 PM
Myth = My identity is not valid.    >:(              >:(


Truth = I'm the one who knows myself. No one else does.



I'm holding back a lot of anger right now.

I don't feel anger at it. I feel smug amusement.

I know something you don't know, I feel something you don't feel, I am something you don't accept,

all good stuff
I'm going to move into the smug amusement line.

Thanks for the tip.   :)
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Shana A

Quote from: Rebis on December 09, 2007, 10:55:41 AM
And, not only are they bigots, but they smell funny too.

Not only that, but their sense of fashion and style is absolutely atrocious!  >:D

y2g
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Berliegh

Re: Myths in our community that need to die a quick death

That we all look like drag queens and wear heavy make up!
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Kate

I'm not sure if you mean myths *within* the community, or *about* it, so I'll do both, lol...


  • It's all about the clothes
  • A desire to wear women's clothes means one is a transsexual
  • Therapists and The Community coerce us into this cult
  • It's just a lifestyle of getting together with other TSs for sex and drugs
  • "Oh... so you're gay?"
  • TSs never remain married
  • It's just a mid-life crisis (or experiment if younger)
  • HRT has little effect on older TSs
  • Passing and Acceptance are the same thing

~Kate~
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Alison

Quote from: Katia on December 09, 2007, 08:36:51 AM
Quote from: Alison on December 09, 2007, 08:30:50 AM

Are you suggesting I leave Katia? 



no i'm not suggesting anything.  i was merely pointing out what i (me, katia) would do.  fyi i don't feel threatened by you.  why should i?  i have my identity, you've got yours.  we may not agree all the time but that doesn't mean we feel threatened.  just a thought.  anyway..

I guess my theory is when people don't understand I try to educate them.  Not run away.

If everyone runs away all the time, no one would understand anything right?
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Shana A

Oh yes, the transgender lifestyle <hates that term with a passion>

And let's not forget our transgender agenda (like we could even agree on it if we had one)


y2g
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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tekla

I like the TS Agenda too.  Its not like we can agree on lunch, or pants vs. skirt, much less a political plan for subverting all that is good and holy in the world.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

I think the trans-agenda was a piece of paper of a planned meeting that didn't happen because everyone was busy, it wasn't even a complete agenda, it just said 'apologies'.
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katia

hey speaking of ppl that smell funny, i could name quite a few that don't only smell funny but look it too  >:D

Posted on: December 09, 2007, 07:08:27 PM
Quote from: Alison on December 09, 2007, 04:39:59 PM

I guess my theory is when people don't understand I try to educate them.  Not run away.

If everyone runs away all the time, no one would understand anything right?

i see your point but that's not for you to decide.  if ppl wan to "run away", that's their choice & if i want to "educate" them, i'd find a place where ppl actually want to be "educated" about whatever i'm trying to teach.
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Alison

Katia it isn't for you to decide either, if folks don't want to read my (or anyone elses) posts they don't have to. 

Though it was you that said:

Quote from: Katia on December 09, 2007, 08:10:12 AM
of course you wouldn't.  who would.  if someone were trying to strip my identity, i'd be angry too & would leave that place in a flash.  it's called dignity

Implying I have no dignity because I choose to stay and try to educate people comes quite close to a personal attack.

Quoteif ppl wan to "run away", that's their choice & if i want to "educate" them, i'd find a place where ppl actually want to be "educated" about whatever i'm trying to teach.

If "ppl" don't want to hear what I have to say, they don't have to listen.

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Sheila

Reading all of the myths and what people had to say about terms and such, well, it just humoured me in a way. Our Mayor told the city council that if the trans community can not be 100% together then I think we need more education and that the bill will be tabled. There is no way we all can think a like. We are not alike and we view life differently. Myths and terms all need to be burned. I'm not a term or a myth. I'm a person who is just trying to get along in this life.
Sheila
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cindianna_jones

My pet peeves:

- "You can't change biology.  Your chromosomes determine your sex."

- "Transsexualism is a learned behaviour."  ... and how would little kids learn this?  I asked a church official, when he flatly told me this, just how many group sessions he thought it would take amongst a group of transsexuals before he could be convinced to cut off his penis.  He turned red and squished down in his seat.

- "God is against this" ...and just how do they know what God wants?  Do they have his phone number?

- "It's a lifestyle choice"  let me tell you sister, this was no choice for me.  It was transition or suicide.  Either of these paths were perfectly viable to me.  For me "transition or suicide" was definitely NOT a myth.

- "You will always be a man, a mutilated man, but still a man"  ... in your mind's eye.  My perception is my reality.... not yours.

- .... and the worst.... "It's a sexually deviant behavior."  Excuse me but there are a good number of us who have no interest in sex at all.  Not all of us... but a significant share... perhaps the asexual percentage is noticeably higher in transgenders than in any other population.  I wonder why this is?

Cindi
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katia

Quote from: Alison on December 10, 2007, 04:20:46 AM
Katia it isn't for you to decide either, if folks don't want to read my (or anyone elses) posts they don't have to. 

Though it was you that said:

Quote from: Katia on December 09, 2007, 08:10:12 AM
of course you wouldn't.  who would.  if someone were trying to strip my identity, i'd be angry too & would leave that place in a flash.  it's called dignity

Implying I have no dignity because I choose to stay and try to educate people comes quite close to a personal attack.



it'd be a personal attack if i were saying "you" had no dignity.   i said "i'd be angry too & would leave that place in a flash"  but you know what, you can take it as you want.  and one more thing, as a mod, you are supposed to be enforcing the site rules (including this site definitions) not disputing them..
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Sarah

Hmm,
I'm new here.
But If I had to say which myths in and arround/about our community that NEED to die a very quick death...

#1: Trans. people are pervs, that just want to sneak into restrooms so they can see girls naked.

-Yeah, that one needs to die.

#2: Taking herbal supplements like phyto-estrogen is dangerous, and/or innefective.

-This one really gets me riled up, as I use herbals just fine.

#3: All trans. people are depressed and/or at risk for suicide, and/or need therapy.

-Well excuse me! I'm sorry, I know our numbers are high compared to other focus groups, and it is a real problem for many in our community; -but not all! Some don't have these sort of issues, and it can be frustrating to hear the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) all the time! It tends to lead people to thinking that those who aren't are lying, and/or just being arrogant or something. It's just not true.
Kill this! Quick!

#4: 20-somethings and younger share the same values and beliefs about being Transgendered as the "old-schoolers", and if we don't, we're just being arrogant, snotty little kids.

-This is not just a transgender issue. This of course applies to everywhere, But my generation in general (Gen Y) does not value the same stuff as any previous generation. We tend to ask "why?" and we don't get an answer, or the answer we get is not satisfying, and/or make sense, we tend to not do it. Period. We tend to be critical thinkers and skeptical, and unintimidated by making change happen. This tends to scare the older Gens, as we just don't "go along with it". We also tend to be pretty pissed and Un-impressed or even down right angry with teh way the previous Gens have run things(global warming, national debt, anyone?). So we speak our mind. And we tend not to care whether anyone else likes what we have to say or not. Some things need to be said (like Pro life, Pro War???). That said, we base our respect for our elders off their actions, and not their seniority (we think respect is earned and natural based on one's actions, not entitled)
-So generally when we disagree, we say so. And often loudly.

-One thing regarding sensitivity for us (gen Y and younger). Previous generations (especially generation x) tended to (and do) regard therapists, therapy, psychology, councilling and psychiatry very highly. We (my gen) tend not to, and in some cases are extremely and very, VERY hostile towards the subject and /or even the suggestion. Especially those of us who are transgendered. Many of us were forcibly hospitalized or put in "behavioral modification programs" to try and "modify", shrink, or medicate  our transgender-ness out of us. I remember very clearly when the therapists stole my clothes, and I was marched into a room full of age-peers and parents of such to have my own mother (at the therapists suggestion) pull my training bra out of the paper bag where they had stached it, and procede to drape it over her head in an effort to use humilliation to get me to "change my 'innapropreate' behavior". Even thinking about it fills me with rage.  I had not yet come out, or even begun to address within myself what I was. This sort of thing is common place with kids therapy and is beyond innapropreate. It deserves prison in my opinion.
I know a lot of my generation who share similar "therapy" experiences.

Which leads to the final myth:

#5: Suggesting Therapy to someone is OK.
-It's not.  Especially not to those of us who had it forced on us as children. And of the transgendered youth that's probably most of us.
Be REALLY careful with this! Approach the subject REALLY carefully when talking to someone 20-ish and younger. We were therapied enough! To us, this is like asking us if we have found Jesus. Keep your religious, and Psychological beliefs to yourself unless you know it's ok to talk about! You are guaranteed to get along with Generation Y much better that way!

-Some thoughts
-Sarah
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tinkerbell

Hmmm... most of the things I wanted to say have already been said...but..

* MTF transsexuals are just super sissies who chose to become women because they couldn't cut it as men.

* Sex between a FTM and a MTF is considered lesbian sex.

* A FTM who has had bottom surgery is considered post-op.

* A pre-op MTF transsexual is a man.

* SRS is a body modification not a medical necessity.

* There is no primary and secondary transsexualism. (thank you Jeannette  ;))

*  FTM transsexuals are just butch lesbians who want to take advantage of the so precious male privilege.

*  MTF transsexuals started as cross-dressers or used to cross-dress as children.

*  All FTM transsexuals are short in stature.

*  A transsexual is a ->-bleeped-<-

*  A neo-vagina is constructed by excising the penis.

*  A MTF transsexual is neither a woman nor female, but simply a feminized male.

*  A MTF transsexual who is sexually attracted to other females or a FTM transsexual who is attracted to other males is not a true transsexual.

*  A TS with serious psychological and/or social problems cannot be a true TS or stable enough to attempt cross-living and/or surgery.

*  Transsexualism is not a medical condition.

*  Transsexuals should not be allowed to change the way God made their bodies.

*  Transsexuals do not have the same opportunities and rights as anyone else.

*  There are more MTF's than FTM's


tink :icon_chick:




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RebeccaFog

Hi Sarah,

   You sound angry.  I like that.  Don't let the establishment eat you.



Peace,

Rebis
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