Quote from: Rebis on December 10, 2007, 09:41:53 PM
Hi Sarah,

   You sound angry.  I like that.  Don't let the establishment eat you.



Peace,

Rebis

LOL
Yeah, sorry!
Talking about therapy gets me riled up. I know what it's like to be abused by a therapist!
By the way don't get me wrong, I know it's very helpful for some people, and I am privledged to soem good friends who are therapists, but it isn't appropreate for everybody, and for some (especially us youger folks) it tends to bring up a lot of anger.
Be warned! LOL
Anyway, I try not to be angry, but there ARE plenty of idiots, bigots, and arrogant funk-heads, that seem to want me otherwise!
LOL
anyway thanks!
-Sarah

Quote from: Katia on December 10, 2007, 05:10:58 PM
it'd be a personal attack if i were saying "you" had no dignity.   i said "i'd be angry too & would leave that place in a flash"  but you know what, you can take it as you want.  and one more thing, as a mod, you are supposed to be enforcing the site rules (including this site definitions) not disputing them..

I'm not disputing any rules Katia. 

Re: the site definitions, well my identity isn't listed there, and I don't presume to say that everyone elses is as well, it's a list on the internet, it's ridiculous to think it includes every possible identity.  I don't see how mentioning that my identity isn't listed there (and that does NOT mean that I don't exist or that I'm lying, or pretending or whatever else) means that I'm 'disputing rules'.  It IS against the rules to argue about the definitions posted, which I'm not doing in the least. 

Quote from: Katia on December 08, 2007, 07:11:50 AMwhile you are here, you must include yourself in any of these terms:

I repeat: I don't <b> "must" </b> include myself in anything.  Got it?  It doesn't say anywhere that I do.

Wow Tink... after all that had been proffered, you had quite a list to share!

Cindi

Erm, looking back it seems that there's one point in Katia's response that merits a public answer.

Quote from: Katia on December 08, 2007, 07:11:50 AM
while you are here, you must include yourself in any of these terms:

I believe this is the first I've heard of such a requirement. In fact, looking at the list, it would seem a bit restrictive to say that everyone here must be either transgendered or a significant other of someone who is -- yes, those who have a more distant interest in us are a small minority over here, but I don't see a reason to exclude them.

That aside, when the list was compiled last summer my understanding was that it was done mainly to get an agreement on the most common terms, not to make an exhaustive list of possible identities. Yes, most of us fit in at least two categories (the very inclusive one of transgender and one of the more specific ones), but there may be

• people who do not fit in any of the (sub-)categories,
• people who arguably fit in more than one,
• people who are chronically unsure where they fit, and
• people who desire a more fine-grained description for their identity.

All this, of course, can be stated in the form of yet another myth:

The official terms for this forum are all one needs to describe gender.

(Please note that by claiming that as a myth I am not trying to dispute the terms themselves. I still stand by what I said in June: the terms are good. They just do not cover quite everything.)

  Nfr

That different people, TV, CD, GQ, andro, TS, etc., somehow feel less or more pain than the others.

y2g

Myth 1:
You can't be a real woman unless you're feminine.

Myth 2:
You can't be a real woman unless you reject femininity.

Quote from: Hypatia on December 11, 2007, 11:04:45 AM
The generation who made the youth rebellion in the Sixties -- LSD, Black Power, psychedelic rock, hippies, Yippies, Haight-Ashbury, Summer of Love, turn on/tune in/drop out, love beads, make love not war, the generation gap, don't trust anyone over 30, hey hey LBJ, the New Left, the antiwar movement, people who said "groovy" -- was not Gen X. Actually, the Sixties rebels were of the "Baby Boomer" generation. And the 1991 novel Generation X by Douglas Coupland lent its name to the generation that came after the Baby Boomers, i.e. born in the Sixties.

I was among the last of the baby boomers to be born in December of 1962.  I read once that the boom ended in 1962.

What if I'm one of the first X's?  My whole life will have been a lie just like when I figured out I was transgendered [throws themself into a bed and begins weeping, yet again].

Quote from: Seshatneferw on December 11, 2007, 06:21:54 AM
Erm, looking back it seems that there's one point in Katia's response that merits a public answer.

Quote from: Katia on December 08, 2007, 07:11:50 AM
while you are here, you must include yourself in any of these terms:

I believe this is the first I've heard of such a requirement. In fact, looking at the list, it would seem a bit restrictive to say that everyone here must be either transgendered or a significant other of someone who is -- yes, those who have a more distant interest in us are a small minority over here, but I don't see a reason to exclude them.

That aside, when the list was compiled last summer my understanding was that it was done mainly to get an agreement on the most common terms, not to make an exhaustive list of possible identities. Yes, most of us fit in at least two categories (the very inclusive one of transgender and one of the more specific ones), but there may be

• people who do not fit in any of the (sub-)categories,
• people who arguably fit in more than one,
• people who are chronically unsure where they fit, and
• people who desire a more fine-grained description for their identity.

All this, of course, can be stated in the form of yet another myth:

The official terms for this forum are all one needs to describe gender.

(Please note that by claiming that as a myth I am not trying to dispute the terms themselves. I still stand by what I said in June: the terms are good. They just do not cover quite everything.)

  Nfr

Nfr is correct. You do not have to identify as one of the defined terms to be welcome on this site. The terms and definitions are simply there so when we talk about something, we are all on the same page (as much as possible). You can just be you and be welcome here. Definitions are not meant to box people in, they're meant to facilitate discussion.

Dennis

Quote from: redfish on December 11, 2007, 09:18:45 AM
I think therapy can be a really good thing, though I'm not sure if I'm Y or Z. Maybe I'm in between or something.

I've never had a therapy session and in the U.K it's not available on the NHS...I'm not sure if it will help and I have no idea what would go on or be said at a therapy session. It's strange that some people are not sure about their condition..

Quote from: Berliegh on December 11, 2007, 12:48:54 PM
I've never had a therapy session and in the U.K it's not available on the NHS...I'm not sure if it will help and I have no idea what would go on or be said at a therapy session. It's strange that some people are not sure about their condition..

gol' darn it, Berliegh, why don't you just go and get yourself an appointment already? you keep asking what it's like, what's it for, how it feels, is it good, does it help, and so on. then when i say you should go and find out, why not, you say "well I don't think I'm going to go, after all...

a) my psychiatrist prescribes medicine that helps with my depression.
b) my therapist helps me with moving toward living full-time. and helped me get my HRT. and maybe saved my life.

that's about it. if you don't need help with any of those things, you probably don't need items a) or b)

-ell

There is some disagreement as to the precise beginning and ending dates of the post-war baby boom, but the range most commonly accepted is 1946 to 1964

Generation X is a term used to describe generations in many countries around the world which were born between 1965 and 1980.

The term Generation Y first appeared in an August 1993 magazine AD Age editorial to describe those children born between 1981–1995.

Those are pretty much the accepted dates in history and social science.  (from Wiki)

Yeah, the definitions of CD, Androgyne, whatever, are there so
we've got a common ground when discussing.

If you do not agree with any of the definitions you can
easily classify yourself outside these boundaries.

As for phyto's being dangerous, I'm afraid its not a myth because:
  - They are unregulated (so you don't know what your getting, or what's the concentration, or how it was produced)
  - Their bio-activity is feable and it takes big doses to get a decent effect, the problem is that they have hundreds of other components than the main ones and in big quantity, one or many may be toxic.

Aside from the possible problems, the cost to effectiveness ratio is really bad compared to oral estrogens, 20-50 times worse at least. That means your spending a lot more money for less effects.

The real myth is that phyto's are safer than pharmaceutical estrogens. Even at their much lower activity levels, all the other problems in the
way they are administered make them less safe.

The ironic thing is that if your using phyto's while using estrogen, you'll decrease estrogen's effects because some phyto's will have bound to E receptors and they have a weaker activity than estrogen at those receptors.

Quote from: Keira on December 11, 2007, 03:42:23 PM
The ironic thing is that if your using phyto's while using estrogen, you'll decrease estrogen's effects because some phyto's will have bound to E receptors and they have a weaker activity than estrogen at those receptors.

Okay, this may sound like a dumb question: What are phyto's?

plant based (not chemically transformed) estrogens.
Some plant compounds have estrogenic activity.

Many of the commercial estrogens have a plant source,
but the compounds are then chemically transformed
into a more potent form.

-male-to-female transsexuals have been socialized as men, and this socialization cannot be changed
-male-to-female transsexuals have been raised as boys, have never been oppressed as women, and cannot understand women's oppression
-transsexuals have surgery so they can have sex the way they want to
-male-to-female transsexuals are trying to take over the lesbian community
-transsexuals are guilty of deception when they don't reveal right away that they are transsexuals
-transsexualism is unnatural.  its a new problem brought about by sophisticated technology


i'll think of more eventually..

1. Transsexuality can be cured by psychotherapy
2. Taking testosterone makes trans men much more aggressive and angry than they were before taking hormones
3. Peeps that are transsexual can usually be identified by certain mannerisms or physical characteristics
4. Traanssexuals were sexually abused as children
5. Peeps that are transsexual have made a conscious decision to be that way
6. Transsexuality is a type of mental illness
7. Transsexuals die younger than the average non-transsexual person
8. Hormones without doctor's supervison does not kill
9. GRS is obtainable without following the Harry Benjamin Standards
10. GRS creates internal reproductive organs

Got to disagree about number two.  Seen it a few times now.  T is very agro, very powerful.  Not sure about the anger, but whatever anger they had, will be magnified.  But the agressive part, for sure, based on my own experience.  And that is not a bad thing.

And that number nine deal.  That is so last century.  I know all sort of doctors who do not follow the HBS deal.  At least here.

T makes you more encline to express angrt only if your already angry,
same as for Genetic men. You don't see men angry all the time
do you?

I've had many FTM in support groups and they are not
angry or aggressive at all, they're more mellow than
when they were pre hormones. Probably because
they are more at ease with themselves, which
makes them less angry.

I disagree on the unsupervised hormones killing you too.

That's a big myth. I know at least 100 people personally who did it and none have any health problems at all. And why would they, estrogen's in half the human race, is it killing them. Its the general dangerous behavior of those that are using street hormones (including injecting silicone) that's killing people. The hormones themselves are incidental. I won't go further into this because it is discouraged here, but with info, its no more dangerous than with a doctor because most doctors don't know crap about hormone used in TG, and even those that know get their info in the same studies I can read publicly.

Ell:
I wasn't intending to be insulting. I am just blunt.
If they tell me they fell insulted, I will apologize and clarify.

Steph:
Yeah, baby boomers are fine. They tend to be pretty well balanced, not perfect, but not insane either.
Gen x went crazy. Maybe they had to, the war was going on, and someone needed to stop it, the whole world went crazy then. But it did seem to have a lasting effect on that generation for the worse I'm afraid. On the one hand while they made a lot of noise in the sixties, they didn't get a lot done. I would say about half of them tend to be un-grounded, emracing every new idea, or scientific discovery, or alternative medicine or quasi spiritual thing like it is the latest fix -yet they don't often stay the commited to anything and tend to think "free love" means they should be able to do whatever they like.. The rest seem to have progressively diminished into a conservative rut on the extreme  end. Even if they are liberal. These type tend to call themselves Democrats for instance, and be against global warming, trade problems, etc, yet drive a mercedies SUV and havn't ridden their bike in years. Of the rest, the most of the remainder seem to have found Jesus and think fertilized eggs deserve the full rights of citizens. Which leaves probably one percent left of a handfull of every other sort immagiable . They tend not to agree on anything ever, and end up not addressing serious problems when they need quick action as they prefer lots of covoluted ideas of "community organization" or think that voting for a polititian is an effective way of dealing with an immediate crisis. They also tend to be unwilling to make ay sort of sacrifice that may effect their lifestyle no matter how urgent or nessicary it is. In long and short, they make a lot of noise, love to talk about change needed and "commitee actions" and get nothing done and are unwilling to make the hard changes  nessicary to make it happen or do the hard work needed.


"Adults are obsolete children and the hell with them" -Dr. Suess
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and so they attempt the impossible generation after generation, and achieve it" -Pearl S. Buck

Quote from: Keira on December 11, 2007, 11:39:11 PM
T makes you more encline to express angrt only if your already angry,
same as for Genetic men. You don't see men angry all the time
do you?

I've had many FTM in support groups and they are not
angry or aggressive at all, they're more mellow than
when they were pre hormones. Probably because
they are more at ease with themselves, which
makes them less angry.

yep Keira's right. if ur an angry dude b4 T, u'll be worse after T.  Most trans dudes are ok though b/c we're happier w/our lives. I got a few more myths

T will make u grow taller
T will make ur breasts disappear
If u stop T after top surgery, ur breasts will grow back
T will make u gay (I've heard this b4. crazy stuff)
T wil make ur hands & feet bigger
If u take more T, u will change faster than someone that takes less T
Its easy to tell who is a trans man
All trans men come from the lesbian community (I said this already )
Trans men are not men b/c they cant produce sperm
Phallo is the only surgeyr that makes u a man legally
Bio dudes can always tell who is a trans man
All trans men have bottom surgery
Trans men hate bio dudes


I think thats it.