I'll give you a good example of what I am talking about.
This is from my friends blog. He is like a 56 year old gay guy:

" Lou Dobbs, the one trick pony

well now Lou Dobbs is amerikas leading authority on imigration policy, was he appointed by God is he amerikas choice or is he just another radio talk show host who found a pony to ride to the land of Rush Limbaughs world of media riches and prescription drug nirvana.
for 5 years or so he has had an hour of CNN time, pretty primo face time in the land of celebrity news commentaors, he has a dedicated staff of true believers who ferret out examples of outrageous immigration behavior and tout those events as the norm. Lou Dobbs is defending the amerikan middle class by golly , he says, like the american middle class needs a daddy to defend them from being raped by poor immigrants who will shovel manure for 10 bucks an hour. The american middle class is its own worst enemy, voting for born again republican ->-bleeped-<-s who sell their birthrights to the lowest bidder in Asia, a free market economy of de-escalating wages and lousy human rights, destructive ecological and false monetary policies.
Lou is about 40 lbs short of achieving his dream of being Rush Limbaughs butt-baby.
Has this guy gotten fat or does the hot air he spouts just bloat his face so it appears he has 5 chins? You want a cheap macdonalds salad bar, you better get on your hands and knees and thank some immigrant stoop laborer , who is willing to kill himself to give his kids a better chance at life. Oh sure there are plenty of crytsal-meth smuggling buggers to keep Lou busy finding the worst examples of Mexican Immigration til hell freezes over or his arteries finally blow out, but they are selling it to americas kids cause mommy and daddy are to busy buying a new (SUV, Wide screen HDTV, Second Home, Swimming Pool, Hot Tub European vacation, Whatever), to raise them with any hope or ethical standards to speak of."

-That pretty much summs it up.
My problem with the hippies is that they tend to not back their high ideals with action.
They seem afraid of moderate, hard work.
They are also the generation running for president.
I'll give this to them: They got civil rights for black people. And improved rights for women.
They deserve all the credit they will ever get and more for that.
But we need them now.
Not 1965.
And it concerrns me greatly that they do not have the courage, the ability, or the inner strength to do what is nessicary to face immediate challenges like Global warming, Glbt civil rights, Immmigration reform, Medical reform, forign policy reform, etc.
We have already seen Congress wuss out on passing a "binding" resolution to end the current war.
They like to make a lot of noise and point fingers at the other guys when the bill that was never gonna pass gets vetod, but they new it was not going to pass in the first place. Just more noise and talk. and finger pointing. No walk.

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 12:07:31 AM
Ell:
I wasn't intending to be insulting. I am just blunt.
If they tell me they fell insulted, I will apologize and clarify.

well, there were a lot of things you said that were pretty offensive. ever see Girl, Interrupted? no offense, but you could have really played Angelina Jolie's part. and you're so defensive about the whole therapy thing, which, may i infer, means you're not currently seeing a psychiatrist, and you're not on any meds, correct? your hostility on this point is so fierce that it seems your temper is sometimes capable of almost getting out of control.  right? 

like you, i've had a bad experience with a psychiatrist. the man had no compassion at all, and prescribed a drug which nearly drove me to the edge. and, also like you, i allowed that bad experience to drive me away from all psychiatrists and all therapists. so i suffered for nearly 20 years with depression and GID with no treatment, and i can't tell you many times i no longer felt like living. it was hellish, and that almost drove me to the edge, too.

anyway, when i couldn't stand it any longer, i finally went to a gender therapist, and she sent me to a psychiatrist to start dealing with my depression. in some ways, this new psychiatrist was worse than that other guy, 20 years ago. but i didn't just run away from the problem this time. when she prescribed a drug that i didn't like, i told her flat out what the problem was: this one helps my depression, but it's causing me to lose sleep. this other one has a scary list of side effects, and i'm not taking it. and she prescribed different medicine. she's prescribed five different drugs and i've rejected four of them, and the one i've kept, i reduced my own dosage from 40 mg per day to 20 mg per day. so i've taken a much more proactive approach this time, and i'm just as much involved in managing my depression as my psychiatrist is.

-ell

Your points folks would be much easier to
understand if any of you used paragraphs!!!
Please, I can't read 50 line paragraphs, maybe its
because I'm getting old, or simply because its
impossible!!

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 01:00:34 AM
I'll give you a good example of what I am talking about.
This is from my friends blog. He is like a 56 year old gay guy:

" Lou Dobbs, the one trick pony

well now Lou Dobbs is amerikas leading authority on imigration policy, was he appointed by God is he amerikas choice or is he just another radio talk show host who found a pony to ride to the land of Rush Limbaughs world of media riches and prescription drug nirvana.
for 5 years or so he has had an hour of CNN time, pretty primo face time in the land of celebrity news commentaors, he has a dedicated staff of true believers who ferret out examples of outrageous immigration behavior and tout those events as the norm. Lou Dobbs is defending the amerikan middle class by golly , he says, like the american middle class needs a daddy to defend them from being raped by poor immigrants who will shovel manure for 10 bucks an hour. The american middle class is its own worst enemy, voting for born again republican ->-bleeped-<-s who sell their birthrights to the lowest bidder in Asia, a free market economy of de-escalating wages and lousy human rights, destructive ecological and false monetary policies.
Lou is about 40 lbs short of achieving his dream of being Rush Limbaughs butt-baby.
Has this guy gotten fat or does the hot air he spouts just bloat his face so it appears he has 5 chins? You want a cheap macdonalds salad bar, you better get on your hands and knees and thank some immigrant stoop laborer , who is willing to kill himself to give his kids a better chance at life. Oh sure there are plenty of crytsal-meth smuggling buggers to keep Lou busy finding the worst examples of Mexican Immigration til hell freezes over or his arteries finally blow out, but they are selling it to americas kids cause mommy and daddy are to busy buying a new (SUV, Wide screen HDTV, Second Home, Swimming Pool, Hot Tub European vacation, Whatever), to raise them with any hope or ethical standards to speak of."

-That pretty much summs it up.
My problem with the hippies is that they tend to not back their high ideals with action.
They seem afraid of moderate, hard work.
They are also the generation running for president.
I'll give this to them: They got civil rights for black people. And improved rights for women.
They deserve all the credit they will ever get and more for that.
But we need them now.
Not 1965.
And it concerrns me greatly that they do not have the courage, the ability, or the inner strength to do what is nessicary to face immediate challenges like Global warming, Glbt civil rights, Immmigration reform, Medical reform, forign policy reform, etc.
We have already seen Congress wuss out on passing a "binding" resolution to end the current war.
They like to make a lot of noise and point fingers at the other guys when the bill that was never gonna pass gets vetod, but they new it was not going to pass in the first place. Just more noise and talk. and finger pointing. No walk.

And this is all relevant how?

Quote from: Chris on December 12, 2007, 12:47:11 AM
T will make u gay (I've heard this b4. crazy stuff)

I'd like to open this one up to:

It's a myth that being transgendered has anything to do with sexuality at all..  A lot of people seem to think your sexuality will change.

Quote from: Valentina on December 11, 2007, 10:33:23 PM
8. Hormones without doctor's supervison does not kill
9. GRS is obtainable without following the Harry Benjamin Standards

These seem false.

I think >50% of the transpeople I know irl have started by self-medication and it typically
causes no ill effects, when the dosages are reasonable. Having a doctor does not make
things safe either.

GRS is obtainable in some cases without following Harry Benjamin Standards. And different
countries and surgeons have different rules which can differ from HBSOC.

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 01:00:34 AM
-That pretty much summs it up.
My problem with the hippies is that they tend to not back their high ideals with action.
They seem afraid of moderate, hard work.
They are also the generation running for president.
I'll give this to them: They got civil rights for black people. And improved rights for women.
They deserve all the credit they will ever get and more for that.
But we need them now.
Not 1965.
And it concerrns me greatly that they do not have the courage, the ability, or the inner strength to do what is nessicary to face immediate challenges like Global warming, Glbt civil rights, Immmigration reform, Medical reform, forign policy reform, etc.
We have already seen Congress wuss out on passing a "binding" resolution to end the current war.
They like to make a lot of noise and point fingers at the other guys when the bill that was never gonna pass gets vetod, but they new it was not going to pass in the first place. Just more noise and talk. and finger pointing. No walk.

You're giving hippies the credit for what people from The Lost Generation and WWII did.

You try doing all this when you're taking care of your elderly parents and your children's children and holding down a job and trying to keep your spouse from leaving you

These are not really hippies. They are establishment clowns who probably got high but were otherwise straight and who, as we now know, suffer a disorder called "being Square"

Just my opinions.  If they evoke anger, please take it out on a hippie or one of their square friends.

Quote from: ell on December 12, 2007, 01:20:21 AM

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 12:07:31 AM
Ell:
I wasn't intending to be insulting. I am just blunt.
If they tell me they fell insulted, I will apologize and clarify.

well, there were a lot of things you said that were pretty offensive. ever see Girl, Interrupted? no offense, but you could have really played Angelina Jolie's part. and you're so defensive about the whole therapy thing, which, may i infer, means you're not currently seeing a psychiatrist, and you're not on any meds, correct? your hostility on this point is so fierce that it seems your temper is sometimes capable of almost getting out of control.  right? 

Well there's a myth: "if you are angry about psychology/psychiatry it's because you need therapy"!
LOL

El, a lot of people have died as a result of the drugs their therapist prescribed to them.

The list of drugs that have been pulled from the market of killing people or causeing permanent bodily damage is a mile long!

Wasn't it pozac that has been found to cause people to become temporarily hommicidal?

I know people personaly who got liver dammage, and dangerous side effects from the drugs they were taking.

I have never met anyone who has been cured(their syptoms are completely set to rest) with it.
If you know of someone, please tell me.

I DO know of many people who have had their symptoms cured by their meditation or yoga practice. Or by doing something as simple as changing their lifestyle or the way they eat.

A gender therapist can be helpful. So can good ol fassioned counciling. So can a lot of other things.
There are a lot of effective ways of dealing with problems and challenges that come up in life that actually work.

Those two fields are not among them. If they worked, I wouldn't have a problem with them.
-Sarah

Posted on: December 12, 2007, 04:26:23 PM

---

Quote from: Keira on December 11, 2007, 03:42:23 PM
As for phyto's being dangerous, I'm afraid its not a myth because:
  - They are unregulated (so you don't know what your getting, or what's the concentration, or how it was produced)
  - Their bio-activity is feable and it takes big doses to get a decent effect, the problem is that they have hundreds of other components than the main ones and in big quantity, one or many may be toxic.

Aside from the possible problems, the cost to effectiveness ratio is really bad compared to oral estrogens, 20-50 times worse at least. That means your spending a lot more money for less effects.

The real myth is that phyto's are safer than pharmaceutical estrogens. Even at their much lower activity levels, all the other problems in the
way they are administered make them less safe.

Keira: do you have any  hard evidence of anyones experience that phyto-estrogen is dangerous? If you do, I'm all ears. Otherwise, this just looks like FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) to me.
They are more expensive and they do take larger doses.
However, I tend to disagree with you on safetey for the Asprin reason: Asprin is toxic. Willow bark (which asprin comes from) is not. The reason asprin is toxic is that the chemical process used to make it removes the buffers required for safe absorbtion. This has actually led to Buffrin, but is still not safe as their are other compounds in willow bark that ballance the PH and help with absorption.
Same reason applies with Estrogen as far as I am concerned. Phyto-Estrogen is not estrogen, and does not act liek it in the body. It has to be digested, and the procces of breaking it down creates Estrogen (human absorbable). the fact that this occurs in the body, rather than a test tube, guarantees the PH will be correctly ballanced as well as the presence of buffers and other absorption aids (including phyto neutrients).

What you are basicaly saying is that because you have a lack of evidence, that it is better to assume that they are dangerous.
That is an assuption, and there is not a "lack of evidence" on their use. There is quite a bit actually. Fenugreek has been taken for thousands of years for increasing breast size.

If you don't have information, please don't discredit a useful approach for some simply because of personal lack of data.
If you want data, I'd suggest seeing a NaturPathic Doctor (ND) about the subject.


Posted on: December 12, 2007, 04:48:53 PM

---

Quote from: Rebis on December 12, 2007, 03:27:26 PM

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 01:00:34 AM
-That pretty much summs it up.
My problem with the hippies is that they tend to not back their high ideals with action.
They seem afraid of moderate, hard work.
They are also the generation running for president.
I'll give this to them: They got civil rights for black people. And improved rights for women.
They deserve all the credit they will ever get and more for that.
But we need them now.
Not 1965.
And it concerrns me greatly that they do not have the courage, the ability, or the inner strength to do what is nessicary to face immediate challenges like Global warming, Glbt civil rights, Immmigration reform, Medical reform, forign policy reform, etc.
We have already seen Congress wuss out on passing a "binding" resolution to end the current war.
They like to make a lot of noise and point fingers at the other guys when the bill that was never gonna pass gets vetod, but they new it was not going to pass in the first place. Just more noise and talk. and finger pointing. No walk.

Quote
You're giving hippies the credit for what people from The Lost Generation and WWII did.

Really? Darn. I was really trying to give them credit for somthing.

QuoteYou try doing all this when you're taking care of your elderly parents and your children's children and holding down a job and trying to keep your spouse from leaving you

They have a responsibility to our home, earth Rebis. The place where we all live. Like my gen isn't going to have the same issues? They are avoiding responsibility and putting it on my sholders and my peers. It doesn't matter how difficult it is, it needs to be done. Me and my peers will be paying for the previous Gens lifestyle. They are leaving us their debt to shoulder. That is not OK. And they wonder why we are so pissed. We've got good reason to be pissed. They trashed our home, and ran up a huge credit card bill and expect us to pay for it and clean it up.

QuoteThese are not really hippies. They are establishment clowns who probably got high but were otherwise straight and who, as we now know, suffer a disorder called "being Square"

Same gen, and they were elected. By the same gen.

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 06:07:42 PM

QuoteYou try doing all this when you're taking care of your elderly parents and your children's children and holding down a job and trying to keep your spouse from leaving you

They have a responsibility to our home, earth Rebis. The place where we all live. Like my gen isn't going to have the same issues? They are avoiding responsibility and putting it on my sholders and my peers. It doesn't matter how difficult it is, it needs to be done. Me and my peers will be paying for the previous Gens lifestyle. They are leaving us their debt to shoulder. That is not OK. And they wonder why we are so pissed. We've got good reason to be pissed. They trashed our home, and ran up a huge credit card bill and expect us to pay for it and clean it up.

QuoteThese are not really hippies. They are establishment clowns who probably got high but were otherwise straight and who, as we now know, suffer a disorder called "being Square"

Same gen, and they were elected. By the same gen.

Don't forget that some of that generation you are smacking around (and I have no problem with that) are the greenpeacers who throw theirselves in front of whaling vessels and do other crazy things to help save the earth.  Plus a lot of people (of many nationalities) are in prisons around the world for trying to make changes in hostile countries.

Also the role models like the Ben & Jerry guys who created a business that tries to be environmentally conscious and donate some of their profits to good causes.

As for the evil freaks who keep attaining elected office, it's mostly because people your age do not vote in large numbers.  You all have the power to make some kind of change happen even if it's not as much as you want right now, but you don't. The first boob elected U.S. president when the voting age went down to 18 was Richard Nixon.

You kids with your walky-talkys, and your skateboards, and your cell phones, and your downloaded music, and your myspace, and your space age sneakers, and your inability to walk a lousy 5 miles to school, and your disposable razors, and your violent woodstocks, and your pants that won't stay up, and your posters of Bobby Sherman, and your pierced elbows, and...

I forget.  I'm old now.


Have fun,

Rebis

          I almost forgot.  Out of respect for N's thread, this off topic conversation should be split off or started over as a thread of it's own.

transsexual women don't have dignity.  wrong!  we do!

I was a teenager when the phrase "don't trust anyone over 30" was going around. At some point I noticed that I knew some really cool people who happened to be over 30...

I don't make assumptions about people based on age, gender, etc. There's some really great people around, of all ages, young and old, who are doing everything they can to try and make this world a better place. Those are the people I want to know and work with.

y2gen

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
Well there's a myth: "if you are angry about psychology/psychiatry it's because you need therapy"!
LOL

i never said you needed therapy or that psychoactive drugs weren't dangerous. the drug that i was referring to that nearly drove me to the edge was in fact Prozac. i hate that stuff. but there are some people on this site who've said it's really helped them get their depression under control (that's how i feel about Celexa). should i tell the Prozac users that they're idiots? no. it's not for me to say that. if it really helps them get their lives back in order, i say, you go, girl! and i'm happy for them.

meds can be really dangerous, but so is depression. one has to weigh the risks, you know. so, please don't hate me for being open and honest with you, and for speaking my mind. you demand that right for yourself, don't i have it?

-ell

Ell, I don't hate you!!
I think you are fine.
You are being honest!
Just like I was.
Everybody has diff. opinions,
there's nothing wrong with that..
Or you! I think you are fine!
appologize if I came accross to strong, I did not mean to imply that I think you are wrong or a bad person or whatever!
I don't think that!
Its a 50/50 thing, some people think I need to stand up for myself more, and others thing I need to tone it down a bit.
I try for a balance.
So yeah, don't think I don't like you or anything.
You are fine!
If you have found somthing that works for you that is great!
Some people think what works for them is good by everybody thought, and that was  what I meant by the myth.
Diff, strokes for diff. folks ya know?
-Sarah

Posted on: December 12, 2007, 09:28:12 PM

---

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on December 12, 2007, 06:30:10 PM

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
Me and my peers will be paying for the previous Gens lifestyle. They are leaving us their debt to shoulder. That is not OK. And they wonder why we are so pissed. We've got good reason to be pissed. They trashed our home, and ran up a huge credit card bill and expect us to pay for it and clean it up.

just like your children will be paying for yours.

I sicerely hope not.
I don't think the earth can take another 50 years of sensless waste and mindless consuption without having drastic consequences for everyone living here.
I doubt my children will be able to go skiing.

By the way, to you and y2gender: I have many friends who are older than me. My friends blog I posted is from a guy who is 56.
I respect those elders who see the supidity of it all and say so  and keep doing things about it.
They don't give in to Progressive Deminishment and say "my life is hard, I'm tired."

Think about the population of the world now: over 6 billion people. expected to be 9 billion soon.
Think about the population of the world in 1965. maybe 1 billion?
Largest generation EVER. By a factor of Billions.

Rebis is right though this is getting too far off topic.
This started as a myth of youth difference related to Transgendr Issues.
I happen to believe that my generation WILL get some things done this area.
In less than 50 years, I expect to see full Transgender inclusion in America.
Maybe not some old  hastles, but I bet we see a large shift towards Gender neutral bathrooms and a lack of protest towards locker rooms and others as more and more people meet Transgender People or know someone who knows someone.
I also thinlk this Christian Frenzy is going to hita critical mass and implode like a burst balloon. I think we are already nearing the half life of this fundie crazyness.
When I go to school. I don't have issues there. And everybody sees me in the halls and whatever. I use the restroom I want.
I have not met a person at school who isn't cool with it.
Multiply that times years, and schools and population of transgender people, factor in progressive society's advancement, and add the internet, and I thinkg you wil see this changing rather quickly compared to before.
Just my opinion

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 09:50:44 PM
Ell, I don't hate you!!
I think you are fine.
You are being honest!
Just like I was.

Oh, thank you! 

-ell

Sarah

What are you so pissed about?

Quote from:  link=topic=22906.msg174737#msg174737 date=1197520436
Sarah

What are you so pissed about?

I was thinkin about that earlier.

I think it's this: I'm really pissed that the older generations have left the world in such a shoddy state.
And they seem not to care. And un-appolegetic.

Like they just don't give a crap what they are doing to our home. And think that it's OK because it's what everyone else has done.

They seem to take the youth for granted, like we HAVE to deal with it so too bad.

Really it pisses me off. They trash our home tell us to clean it up and don't apologize or show gratitude for us having to do it.

I am un-impressed by their complaints and excuses. "I'm tired, life is hard, you'll understand when you are my age, I did stuff when I was young"....whatever.

It's crap. Hogwash. I've never seen such a bunch of lazy, irresponsible, deluded idiots.

Everybody's life is hard. Everybody is tired. I know the body slows down as you get older, but there are things that you can do that aren't physical that can help.

If I had a dime for every 57-year old three year old out there I would be a very rich person.

Yeah. It makes me mad. You guys are trashing our planet.
This is OUR home! you have no right to do that!
You have every responsibility to do EVERYTHING in your ability to help!

I don't care if you are tired! Get over it! you don't have the right to be comfortable at the expense of others!

Anything less is a bunch of bullcrap. There IS, no excuse for the kinds of behavior the older genderations are doing.
They are not older and wiser, they are older and more stubborn!
Wisdom has nothing to do with age! It is rare in any generation!
Yeah I'm mad! And so are most of my peers!
Wouldn't you be?
I may not be able to go skiing in a few years, and it certainly isn't MY generations fault that is happening IS IT!??

I'm mad because their actions show they don't care.

P.S. I don't know if this post belong here or in the PMS section. It is off topic.
But I wanted to answer you question. Feel free to move it.
Edit: I was going to delete this because it is a rant, off topic, and in any case wrong speach.
I decided not too, because it is honest. This is how I felt when I wrote it.
People like Ashley have some good points I am glad that there are people here who can work on something.
It's just really frustrating ya know?
Ask yourself this:How many cars do I own? Can I take the bus to work rather than drive? Can I participate in getting city initiatives to pass green bills and emmission standards within my town? And then make them tougher. And again.
Can I bring my own bag to the groccery store rather than use their plastic ones? If you do need a car can you get by with a four cylinder engine rather than a six or eight? Are there ways you can improve your impact at home? Can you recycle? Replace your bulbs with expensive, but long lasting energy efficient ones? Can you use bio-degradeable soap rather than chemical ones for washing and dishes?
Christmas is comming, Big trash time. Can you use creative means for wrapping like a poster or the comics from a paper rather than wrapping paper? can you buy cards that can be recycyled rather than ones with glitter and metalic stuff? Can you buy stuff made locally or in the US rather than overseas?
Think about it. There is a lot we can do.

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 11:57:59 PM
Yeah. It makes me mad. You guys are trashing our planet.
This is OUR home! you have no right to do that!
You have every responsibility to do EVERYTHING in your ability to help!

There is no time to blame the elders. And much of the free for all that is laying waste to marine biology is being done by young people. oldsters just can't get out there and do that stuff.

Shrimpers use dredge nets and kill everything they haul in except the shrimp.

Shark fin fishers catch sharks and cut off the main dorsal fin, then dump the animal to die a slow and torturous death. just because some idiots like to eat shark fin soup. many of them are young people.

utility companies in the US have begun drilling enormously deep holes in the ground to use the earth's interior heat as a fuel. they are literally drilling miles down, and are causing earthquakes. many of those working on these projects are young people.

and you're right about the population problem. scientists are not sure just when it will reach a critical mass, but when it does, all hell will break loose. guess what? the population problem is caused by breeders. young breeders.

so you see, the problem is not just what has been done, but also what's happening right now. the problem is not the age of people, it's the stupidity of people. stupid doesn't discriminate by age. it's an equal opportunity condition that affects billions. even presidents.

-ell

I think each generation's full of smart allecs who messes it all up in a brand new original way while fixing the mess of the previous generations. Its their messes and they are proud of it!!

As for boomers, its really a north american phenomena. In the UK and much of Europe, the boom of births was a later because the economy was in the crapper in the late 40's. It also never really was as strong as in Canada and the US. You have to be optimistic to have children, and Europeans where certainly pessimists after the war.

The signing of Marshal plan in early 1948 and the pouring of reconstruction aid into Europe, the abolition of the tarifs in the Western Europe and new cooperative associations of countries formed in the early 50's turned things around very quickly in the 50's. Still, while the 50's were an era of booming prosperity in the US, it was just the return to normalcy in western europe.

In the rest of the world, the population has been booming without respite in the 20th century. Lately, there's been a slowdown of growth because of family planning, Aids in Africa, prosperity (when a society is prosperous, the number of child per household decreases).

Quote from: ell on December 13, 2007, 12:32:42 AM

Quote from: Sarah on December 12, 2007, 11:57:59 PM
Yeah. It makes me mad. You guys are trashing our planet.
This is OUR home! you have no right to do that!
You have every responsibility to do EVERYTHING in your ability to help!

There is no time to blame the elders. And much of the free for all that is laying waste to marine biology is being done by young people. oldsters just can't get out there and do that stuff.

Shrimpers use dredge nets and kill everything they haul in except the shrimp.

Shark fin fishers catch sharks and cut off the main dorsal fin, then dump the animal to die a slow and torturous death. just because some idiots like to eat shark fin soup. many of them are young people.

utility companies in the US have begun drilling enormously deep holes in the ground to use the earth's interior heat as a fuel. they are literally drilling miles down, and are causing earthquakes. many of those working on these projects are young people.

and you're right about the population problem. scientists are not sure just when it will reach a critical mass, but when it does, all hell will break loose. guess what? the population problem is caused by breeders. young breeders.

so you see, the problem is not just what has been done, but also what's happening right now. the problem is not the age of people, it's the stupidity of people. stupid doesn't discriminate by age. it's an equal opportunity condition that affects billions. even presidents.

-ell

I suppose you are right Ell.
There is no time to waste blaming.
Especially when we need all the help we can get.
You are very right that a lot of the harm has been done by young people. You are right, stupidity is an equal opportunity condition.
I suppose I just see more of the elders being hippocrites than young people.
Even if they are, I doesn't help to go off on them about it when there is a chance they might help.
I have trouble blaming young people for breeding, it is what they are wired to do, but it doesn't help if their govt. or church is against condoms. It's all a mess isn't it? And very frustrating. At least there is beauty and love in the world or we'd all probably go completely crazy.
You are right.
There is no time for blaming. And no point anyway.
I'm sorry it's just very frustrating.
I'd be lying if I said it doesn't get to me or get me down every once in a while.
Thanks for being a voice of reason Ell.
There are some other people here who are very well grounded as well.
Thank you all as well for putting up with my frustration. It's very tiring I'm sure.
-See ya
-Sarah

Hi Sarah,

   I understand your anger, your disappointment, and your being down because of it.  Don't let it get to you, though.  You need real energy if you're going to make a difference.  People will pay more attention to you if you seem to be coming from a good place.  It's like that theory about the smile; if you smile, others will smile and it will catch on.  I believe it's the same with an upbeat and "can do" attitude.
   Nothing is written.  Everything you do will affect someone or something in someway, so it is best to bring your best.

   If you stress, you will do no one any good, particularly yourself.  I had to learn to feel good because I allowed myself to stay down for so long.  You are trying to carry much more than you are built to carry on your own.  You don't need to do that.  If you must have burdens, learn to choose the burdens that are most urgent and that can be handled.  I don't mean to sound like a new age idiot.  These are ideas that I've found to be true.

   Breathe easy.  We're with you on about everything you said.   Change takes time is all.


Peace,

Rebis