Look, this thread is probably going to get some hate, but the more and more time I spend in the trans community the more shallow alot of people seem to be, this isn't saying everyone is like it, but there are more than a few.

What is the obsession with passing?

For me (in my opinion) there is so , so much more to being transgender than passing and frankly it just  annoys me that it seems all people are interested in. 

I have known deep down that I was a girl as early as I can remember, and passing, even though of course it is some what nice to be socially accepted as a girl was certainly not all there was. For me it was always deeper, I simply just was and was comfortable with that identity, which means I did not care about the appearance as it made no difference to me accepting myself.

So this comes to the ranty part, why are so many people so shallow in only caring how they look, especially in the trans community? I see endless videos online where especially MTF blab / brag about how good they look or how hard it is to be MTF because they don't look beautiful, seriously? Get a grip.

I see endless topics here of people posting images of themselves trying to get attention by asking, do I pass? do I look good?. No one ever, unless cruel, is going to say no, even if you don't, if I told you that you looked like a guy, I would likely get a warning for it, are you truly so insecure about yourself / identity that you need a strangers conformation? If so then I think you need to take a long hard think about your identity.

There is SO MUCH more to being a girl / transexual than your looks, and I have seen people want to be reversed because they didn't look as good as they though they would or have stopped taking hormones because it didn't give them tits over night. Frankly it's insulting and makes me somewhat ashamed of being in the community, where people belittle each other for their own choices, belittle them for not 'presenting' as female as they do, belittle them for not going all the way, seriously.

Being a trans person makes people hate on me / us enough as it is, and it's part in due to the superficial people in the community who flaunt themselves due to either attention / insecurities and comes alot from within the own community! 

Be happy with who you are whether that be Male, Female, gender queer, I don't care, as long as it's not one of those people who change their mind to suit their situation, get a grip on yourselves. 



<language please>

You bring you a valid point, Skylar. Passing is important to some people because they want to look good and presentable, and that's okay. Your right in saying that there more to being trans than passing. Being comfortable in my own skin was the number one objective of mine when I started out and I have achieved this. I'm out in public and interact with the public. Living and enjoying life is what it's about.

In my mind the toughest part comes after one has had GRS surgery. Now one has to LIVE in their new gender identity. I believe that Caitlyn Jenner has discovered that it's tougher than she imagined. I can vouch for that. Being a well round person is something we all should seek to be.

I imagine that for most it's rooted in a fear of public rejection and ridicule.


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Quote from: Skylar1992 on September 26, 2015, 10:24:35 AM
What is the obsession with passing?   

It's true a lot of people get obsessed about beauty, just like cis-gendered people.  But vanity doesn't always go hand-in-hand with a desire to pass.

To me passing means blending.  A lot of us don't want to be clocked as trans on first glance.  We want to live normal lives, where strangers get the pronoun right on the first try.  We don't want to be stared at walking down the street.  We don't want to people to think we're just indulging in a cross-dressing fetish.  That is passing in my opinion.

You can be un-attractive and still pass, if you can master the gender clues/scales society looks for. I think for a lot of people that takes a lot of work (so it becomes an obsession, just like mastering other things).   

There are a lot more benefits that come to being more passable, such as avoiding violence and prejudice, but you're definitely right that its bad to become obsessed about it to the point in which passing becomes your only life priority. If materialism is more emphasized than your overall emotional well being, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Passing helps you be who you want to be on the inside, but there should never have to be a measure of how much someones passes. All that matters is if they are happy with who they are and feel accepted.

Remember as a kid how once everyone hit puberty, they became self centered and even more mean?  It's a subliminal response for a change we are excited to come.  I couldn't imagine a tg not having these feelings unless they accepted their gender at an earlier time..  To be aware of your new body is only human..  Just as kids outgrew their puberty, we will outgrow our 2nd adolescence..  I for one want to enjoy it as long as I can:)  We were deprived these feelings most of our lives, so this is only natural to find the boundaries,  see what we like and how society sees it..

Some people ask about how they look on here to make sure they don't fail in the real world..  I know I did it..  I was terrified the first time I went out in new clothes, yet with euphoria.  I'm sure others were too?  But this obsession is natural and will calm down.. 

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I'm not obsessed with passing so much as not being read. I don't enjoy being misgendered, especially in front of multiple people. It's invalidating for me. I get that sinking feeling in my gut and I want to run away. Aside from that, my fear of being read stems from stories of violence or mistreatment or discrimination against trans people by strangers. I'm afraid when I go into new areas(ie driving thru Canada for the first time was anxiety inducing!) that maybe they won't take kindly to a trans woman in their midst.

As far as not wanting my biologically masculine features to show, I don't like people having a visual reminder of what I consider a deformity. I have a congenital birth defect, in my eyes. Of course I don't want that hanging out every where for people to see - I want to blend and be treated with respected and acceptance as does any other human being. For instance, if I was born with a single eye and an empty socket, I would wear a patch to covet the empty socket. Same deal with my masculine features.

I can't really speak to other trans people's needs to pass or flaunt their selfies. I can only imagine that 1) they fear physical violence or social denigrating when out and about and/or 2) they are insecure with themselves and they are looking for external acceptance and praise to bolster their confidence.

I say, just go with it. Let them be themselves. It's not like you HAVE to read their threads. What really annoys me is all the self-labeling that occurs with in the queer community... My god, as though we're nothing more than overlapping cookie cutter identities...

To be or not to be...


Well if you are a girl you sort of have a need to look like one  Who shouted, Social conditioning ! 

Live and let live 


Paula, <3 X.

A lot of it, I think, is generational.  Skylar, going by your profile pic, you appear to be very young.  Young folks for the most part seem to be far more tolerant of gender variance than the older folks.

I came of age in the 1970's and 1980's, and after Caitlyn Jenner came out, the talk among cisgender folks my age consisted mostly of off color jokes -- which is better than outright hostility, but who wants to be the butt of someone's joke?

I got bullied a lot when I was young for being small and effeminate, and to me, from a psychological standpoint, passing means the same thing as getting through the school day without being noticed and called out by the bullies.

Quote from: Cadence Jean on September 26, 2015, 02:05:18 PM
I'm not obsessed with passing so much as not being read. I don't enjoy being misgendered, especially in front of multiple people. It's invalidating for me. I get that sinking feeling in my gut and I want to run away. Aside from that, my fear of being read stems from stories of violence or mistreatment or discrimination against trans people by strangers. I'm afraid when I go into new areas(ie driving thru Canada for the first time was anxiety inducing!) that maybe they won't take kindly to a trans woman in their midst.

I can't really speak to other trans people's needs to pass or flaunt their selfies. I can only imagine that 1) they fear physical violence or social denigrating when out and about and/or 2) they are insecure with themselves and they are looking for external acceptance and praise to bolster their confidence.

^This^.  Passing = safety and a measure of confidence. I could never do a year of RLE unless I was confident I could blend in.

Okay, I understand peoples points here, but I think I am being misheard a little.

I totally get that people obviously want to fit into what they identify as, which is of course totally fine / natural etc and understandably older generations had to go through more hate.

I am talking about the type of people who transition just for the looks (yes I have known some) and them looking good or not is make and break, people who make videos saying how hard being trans is because they don't look as nice as they thought they would.

The whole point is, there should be less concern on passing and this whole taking pictures and asking people on the net is dumb. Of course ask for make up advice, other advice, but there is no need other than attention / praise seeking to post a pic and ask if you pass.

Well Skylar people can do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting someone. If you think that's dumb, stupid or pointless that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I would ask, why burn up so much energy worrying about it?

Quote from: Skylar1992 on September 26, 2015, 10:24:35 AM
Look, this thread is probably going to get some hate, but the more and more time I spend in the trans community the more shallow alot of people seem to be, this isn't saying everyone is like it, but there are more than a few.

What is the obsession with passing?

I agree that there is far more to our lives than "passing" but I'll tell you exactly why it is so important to me and likely many others:

My favorite reaction from people is indifference.  Shows of support and slightly condescending compliments are better than hate speech but... I would still prefer indifference.  To me, indifference means I am not thought of as a label as much as I am just a person.  I cherish indifference in the way that most people probably fear it.

If I can't pass, people who see me usually either love me as an "inspiration" (e.i. teaching moment) or they are disgusted by what I am.  I rarely get a neutral reaction, treating me like the other people around me. 

If I pass, I can walk around and experience life as something more than just a transgender person. 

For some, all the attention is relished (especially if it's positive) and many transfolk embrace it and wear it like a badge.  I LOVE those people but that's just not me.  I would like the freedom to choose when I disclose my medical history instead of having it written all over me.

Quote from: Ms Grace on September 26, 2015, 04:14:58 PM
Well Skylar people can do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting someone. If you think that's dumb, stupid or pointless that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I would ask, why burn up so much energy worrying about it?

Depends on what you define as hurting someone, and because I am entitled to ask questions / give opinions, I don't burn up energy doing it, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I am burning up energy.

Quote from: Abysha on September 26, 2015, 04:19:45 PM
I agree that there is far more to our lives than "passing" but I'll tell you exactly why it is so important to me and likely many others:

My favorite reaction from people is indifference.  Shows of support and slightly condescending compliments are better than hate speech but... I would still prefer indifference.  To me, indifference means I am not thought of as a label as much as I am just a person.  I cherish indifference in the way that most people probably fear it.

If I can't pass, people who see me usually either love me as an "inspiration" (e.i. teaching moment) or they are disgusted by what I am.  I rarely get a neutral reaction, treating me like the other people around me. 

If I pass, I can walk around and experience life as something more than just a transgender person. 

For some, all the attention is relished (especially if it's positive) and many transfolk embrace it and wear it like a badge.  I LOVE those people but that's just not me.  I would like the freedom to choose when I disclose my medical history instead of having it written all over me.

I totally agree, you put that very well indeed 

Society in general puts a lot of pressure on humans to be 'beautiful'. Even loving yourself for who you are, or for your 'natural beauty' is usually only acceptable within certain perimeters.

Personally, i feel that the idea of 'why can't people just love themselves' is punishing for people who really can't. It's something I've already experienced from cisgendered people, i.e. why is your body so important... and it's something that cis people who, for example, wear make up or have cosmetic surgery probably experience too, because they don't have the ability to flip a switch and discover self esteem from nowhere.

Quote from: Skylar1992 on September 26, 2015, 03:55:02 PM
I am talking about the type of people who transition just for the looks (yes I have known some) and them looking good or not is make and break, people who make videos saying how hard being trans is because they don't look as nice as they thought they would.

Perhaps passing isn't the appropriate word for this thread, as it seems from this statement that you are referencing the need amongst trans women to be beautiful, which is not the same as passing; however, I do not think trans women obsess about beauty any more than cis women do; as a matter of fact, I do believe the Kardashians have taken a selfie or two. 

Skylar,

An obsession with passing is rooted in a fear of NOT passing and the possible consequences in public.

However you seem to be alluding to a pursuit of aesthetics beyond "survival", rooted in a patriarchal gender hierarchy which assigns value based on sexual attractiveness.

Actually, Skylar, the ones that get me are the ones who constantly post about how they don't pass, why they think they don't and asking for tips and advice.. Not one of these types ever listens to a single iota of advice that's given to them. Not if it's "You could do X, Y or Z" or a comment that they do actually look quite good. They are convinced they don't pass or blend and because of that, they never will.

Mind you, if I"d listened to the advice I got given here early on, I'd be hiding in a closet still waiting to save money for FFS that I, in reality, have no need for.

Quote from: kittenpower on September 26, 2015, 06:04:02 PM
Perhaps passing isn't the appropriate word for this thread, as it seems from this statement that you are referencing the need amongst trans women to be beautiful, which is not the same as passing; however, I do not think trans women obsess about beauty any more than cis women do; as a matter of fact, I do believe the Kardashians have taken a selfie or two.

Yes and No

How many threads are there that basically boil down to If I cannot pass; If I cannot look beautiful; If I cannot have a Super-Models look; etc. etc I CANNOT transition. Like, are you that drop-dead handsome hunk of humanity you cannot imagine a life without being anything but the equivalent as a female? The obsession made all the stronger fed by envy watching endless You-Tube videos of lucky women that either won the gene pool lottery and/or started hormone therapy at a young age. You can't help but think Why isn't that me? And as someone else said this is primarily a generational phenomenon.

I, like many, obsess about passing. I also have a very low bar for passing. If there aren't rocks being thrown at me or outright derision, or worse, I am a happy camper. I just want to blend in. Not an easy thing for a 6ft tall female but I manage. Do I wish I had the rest of the 6 ft tall Super-Model thing going for me? You bet. Like how many women don't? Yet, like countless millions of other women I make do with what I have.