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Obsession with passing, why?

Started by Skylar1992, September 26, 2015, 10:24:35 AM

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Cadence Jean

If this thread is less about passing, and more about "if I transition, I must be the most beautiful girl in the room", then I will totally switch my response. I have lots to say on the "most beautiful girl" phenomenon too. Those women bug me too. Note, I said women, because it's not only a trans woman phenomenon... The difference is that some trans women can choose to express their authentic selves or continue to suppress themselves if they don't feel they measure up to some feminine ideal(that the vast majority of cis women can't even measure up to).

I'd rather be an ugly* trans woman than a handsome* cis man any day of the week.  *by American cultural standards
to make more better goodness

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Serenation

Maybe I see the opposite, I see a lot anti passing , anti stealth threads.

I do agree on the 'do I pass threads' though, but I'm sure people get enjoyment and self esteem out of them. If someone wanted to know if they pass it's just a matter of going outside. (that is a big step for some people though if you are going to transition you have to do it at some point)

Also depending on your location passing can be essential for your safety.
I will touch a 100 flowers and not pick one.
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tabbylivehere

I'm confused,  someone mentioned that life is often worse after grs surgery because then you have to live full time as a woman!?! Well, durh..if you're not truly a woman on the inside, and already transitioning hormonally etc, and prepared to live full time as yourself why the hey are people getting grs before then?! Grs is not oh now i have to live life as the other gender.  It is gender affirmation surgery for those who have always been that gender. I don't recommend it for anyone else. 

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Skylar1992

Quote from: tabbylivehere on September 27, 2015, 07:13:45 AM
I'm confused,  someone mentioned that life is often worse after grs surgery because then you have to live full time as a woman!?! Well, durh..if you're not truly a woman on the inside, and already transitioning hormonally etc, and prepared to live full time as yourself why the hey are people getting grs before then?! Grs is not oh now i have to live life as the other gender.  It is gender affirmation surgery for those who have always been that gender. I don't recommend it for anyone else. 

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Yeah, thats exactly what I am getting at, I have met MANY people who are doing it for the wrong reasons, mainly attention. People who go through hormones to ''try it out'' or because they want to be like a friend who is doing it, I remember being in a gaming clan with someone who claimed to be MtF, when their boyfriend (online relationship) split up with them they stopped the treatment because it was only to be with that guy, seriously, WTF
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Cadence Jean

I think cases like that are why WPATH standards of care are in place. It sucks that we all end up affected by them, because of the few who use transition as a means to some other end...
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chuufk

Quote from: JoanneB on September 26, 2015, 06:50:50 PM
How many threads are there that basically boil down to If I cannot pass; If I cannot look beautiful; If I cannot have a Super-Models look; etc. etc I CANNOT transition. Like, are you that drop-dead handsome hunk of humanity you cannot imagine a life without being anything but the equivalent as a female?

As gatekeeping recedes and Informed Consent gets more common, more and more transition will be by  people who do it for the wrong reasons. Eventually the haters will seize on it and it will become a problem that the trans community has to deal with.
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barbie

The question of OP regarding passing seems irrelevant to ->-bleeped-<- or gender identity. I mean seeking superficial beauty is an essential element of the human species. It is not confined to m2f transgder. It applies to both men, women, kids, elders and all other people.

Global beauty market to reach $265 billion in 2017 d
http://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/Market-Trends/Global-beauty-market-to-reach-265-billion-in-2017-due-to-an-increase-in-GDP

In my country, the beauty market is already saturated for women, and an emerging sector is for men.

In South Korea, beauty is skin deep (just make sure to pierce the stubble)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-south-korea-beauty-is-skin-deep-just-make-sure-to-pierce-the-stubble/2015/05/10/4779f642-f354-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html

I will not mention in detail how much money men here invest in preventing hair loss or hair transplantation. Just a glimpse: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2015/07/330_143432.html

And the following is well known worldwide:

The World Capital of Plastic Surgery - The New Yorker http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/23/about-face

Everyday TVs and newspapers deliver news on the side effects of beauty medicines and cosmetic surgeries, but people continue to invest in it. You can not stop them. It is their choice.

Finally, IMHO, SRS is another issue beyond 'passing'. SRS can help a little bit pass well, but it is rather irrelevant to passing. HRT may lie between passing and SRS.

barbie~~
Just do it.
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Skylar1992

Quote from: barbie on September 27, 2015, 11:56:23 PM
The question of OP regarding passing seems irrelevant to ->-bleeped-<- or gender identity. I mean seeking superficial beauty is an essential element of the human species. It is not confined to m2f transgder. It applies to both men, women, kids, elders and all other people.

Global beauty market to reach $265 billion in 2017 d
http://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/Market-Trends/Global-beauty-market-to-reach-265-billion-in-2017-due-to-an-increase-in-GDP

In my country, the beauty market is already saturated for women, and an emerging sector is for men.

In South Korea, beauty is skin deep (just make sure to pierce the stubble)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-south-korea-beauty-is-skin-deep-just-make-sure-to-pierce-the-stubble/2015/05/10/4779f642-f354-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html

I will not mention in detail how much money men here invest in preventing hair loss or hair transplantation. Just a glimpse: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2015/07/330_143432.html

And the following is well known worldwide:

The World Capital of Plastic Surgery - The New Yorker http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/23/about-face

Everyday TVs and newspapers deliver news on the side effects of beauty medicines and cosmetic surgeries, but people continue to invest in it. You can not stop them. It is their choice.

Finally, IMHO, SRS is another issue beyond 'passing'. SRS can help a little bit pass well, but it is rather irrelevant to passing. HRT may lie between passing and SRS.

barbie~~

My thread is not about that, please re read it.
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Cindy

 :police:

Ok Calm down.

I don't need the aggression in the posts.
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Obfuskatie

I think you're lumping a few groups of people together in a generalization;
There are people with body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria. This leads them to an addiction to a perfect ideal that's out of reach and requires therapy.
There are vain trans* people. The beauty industry is built around making as many products to sell as well as marketing vanity.
People with personality disorders can be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and transition doesn't always go well if their dominant alters don't fit the gender they're transitioning to.
There are also trans* people who put off transition and accepting themselves as their chosen gender because they feel it is impossible to achieve results they would be happy with. This is partly due to internalized transphobia and ignorance, and requires therapy and time and acceptance.
There are also people who live in very unsafe places who are very worried about survival. It seems callous to tell them to move before they bother transitioning though.

It isn't that I care about passing, in fact, I've been dating and since I believe in openness and honesty, I out myself. I'd rather be unashamed and open to people, still it sucks when I'm treated less than well because of it.

     Hugs,
- Katie
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If people are what they eat, I really need to stop eating such neurotic food  :icon_shakefist:
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dr.tina

That's my biggest fear,but on the other hand we are fine,we must have self love,as they say "slow and steady wins the race,hormones won't change us over night.
once I thought that my future was blur, I didn't know about HRT or other things. I'm still living and dressing as a male yeah it sucks,but I'm doing my research about hrt and learning more and more, I want to go for it...I was that many women with 2+ on hrt have an awesome changes in them.. But it's more about how I feel than what others feel,


Happy transformation ladies #transisbeautiful

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Mariah

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
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estropunk


While I certainly don't concern myself with passing, and I would never have any interest in living stealth, there are a lot of very valid reasons I understand that other people put a higher priority on those things.

1. Some people are happy standing out with all their special uniqueness on display, and some people are happier if that's more private. Nothing wrong with either way.

2. Even in this day and age, there's the question of safety, dependent a bit on where you live and also other factors (like race); it can be downright dangerous to be a non-passing or non-stealth trans person.

3. There's a lot of pressure from the outside to pass, the assumption that you must want to pass, and so we're bombarded with (sometimes well-intentioned) advice on passing from the cis-people in our lives - doctors, friends, etc. Other people in this thread have smartly compared the desire to pass with the desire to be "beautiful," and the pressure definitely works in the same way. The pressure to pass, or to care about passing, or to try to pass, is a lot like the pressure to be thin. You may not actually want to be. It may not even be healthy for you to be. But the culture we live in tells us that that's the ideal and that we must pursue it, and different people react in different ways to that.

4. I say I don't care about passing and would never want to live stealth, but that may have a significant amount to do with the fact that the people around me - family, friends, coworkers - all treat me like the woman I am without me having to worry about that. If that weren't the case, I might feel differently. Doctors used to advise trans women to move to a new location, start a new job and an entirely new life post transition, in part due to the belief that if people knew you were trans, they would never see you as your true self. Some trans people may feel (maybe even accurately depending on where they're at) that this is still the case.

5. Different trans people feel different ways about their own transness. For me, being trans is a part of my identity and always will be, I value it, so to hide that would feel like going back into the closet - or a whole new closet, maybe. For others, it isn't, and so it feels like being openly or obviously trans could detract from how much people are able to see their true gender.

Basically, there's a lot of circumstantial factors that impact how we're going to feel about passing and stealth. For some people in some circumstances, there's good reasons to worry about passing and stealth may be the best option, for others it isn't.
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barbie

A difference from cis-women is that m2f transgender people tend to regard the ability of passing as a kind of accomplishment. They have invested time, effort and/or money, together with some degree of courage and adventurous spirit.

barbie~~
Just do it.
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dr.tina

Quote from: Mariah2014 on September 28, 2015, 07:16:12 AM
Hi Dr. Tina, welcome to Susan's. So very true. I look forward to seeing you around the forums. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

Things that you should read




Thanks ma'am. I'll connect you and irritate you by my questions. Can I do that?

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dr.tina

I saw a partially bald preHRT woman whose hair were thin and soft with low hair density, but after 2 years on hrt she had beautiful hair... Those were thick and strong..

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Naeree

everyone want to feel good about themselves, I think it's ok to post the passing thread. Getting encourage or positive feedback on self is good sometime. Also get some idea for self development too. Especially trans who just begin their transition, they need support.

When I start my transition, everyone gave me a lot negative feedback until I was like super depress. I thought I don't need to care about them, but the fact that I cared. All I want that time was just someone to tell me that I'm beautiful. That's it, help a lot.

You might not understand why someone obsess with passing. Well, you don't need to, just understand the fact that people are different. And it doesn't hurt anyone.

Beth Andrea

I don't pass, and probably won't unless and until I get FFS, VFS, and a few thousand dollars' of marvelous clothes.

And I accept that. I don't pass. But, there are some days when "the looks", "the giggles", and the misgendering gets me down, and I wish I could pass.

But since I can't, dammit I'm gonna be my own happily unique snowflake. It's "those people" who have the problem.

...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Oliviah

Passing is important for many people for various reasons.

It sure helps getting and keeping a job if you pass.

It is affirming to be hear proper pronouns organically.

It is statistically safer to pass.

I want to clarify that I don't define passing as being able to be stealth or simply being pretty.

Passing is about being congruent in presentation. About not not evoking a something is off feeling.  Or say an unconscious negative reaction.

This allows one to make a neutral or positive first impression.
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Beth Andrea

I've found that a moderate smile and a sincere "Good morning!" (or similarly appropriate greeting) does miracles in setting a good first impression.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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