I wasn't going to post here but I changed my mind.

In answer to the topic title...


Yes, and I have seen it first hand.  I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life.  We chatted there and also on Skype.  She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too.  I have since found out from a mutual friend, why.  She is a real person and wants to keep things separate.  Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with.  She is now a complete woman and we are not. 

Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude"  There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS.  Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery.  That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery.  It is like we are all wrong!

Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
I wasn't going to post here but I changed my mind.

In answer to the topic title...


Yes, and I have seen it first hand.  I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life.  We chatted there and also on Skype.  She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too.  I have since found out from a mutual friend, why.  She is a real person and wants to keep things separate.  Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with.  She is now a complete woman and we are not. 

Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude"  There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS.  Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery.  That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery.  It is like we are all wrong!

Hi Shads,

Stories like this shouldn't surprise us but I guess it demonstrates trans people can be just as nasty as anyone else. 

Growing up how many of us saw people that would dump a friend in a second if they thought they could hang out with a more popular crowd?   How many people have lost a partner when a more attractive person got involved with them?  How many people stop talking with old friends when they moved up the economic ladder?

Unfortunately, kindness and loyalty isn't always what motivates people.  I think you could chalk this up to some people are jerks.  Or maybe she has a huge insecurity about being transgender and this is her way of dealing with it?  Not everyone can stand being different in a society that worships sameness.

Hugs,
Paige

Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life.  We chatted there and also on Skype.  She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too.  I have since found out from a mutual friend, why.  She is a real person and wants to keep things separate. 

Well, I have done the same thing. I keep my trans life and my everyday life separate, but not because I am ashamed of being trans. I do it because my everyday life and my trans life are so different that they have virtually nothing in common. My friends and family know I am trans (how could they not) but they are uninterested in details of my transition, particularly GRS. I view this as no different from other operations like cataracts or heart surgery - few people want the full gory details of those either.

Does this make me evil? Does it make me "->-bleeped-<-r-than-thou"?

My trans friends (well, some of them) have met my family yet the two lives are growing increasingly separate because I have less question that need answering and ordinary life is filling up the spaces. I try and support trans folk, that is why I am here, but my support is diminishing. I need to move on, I am increasingly past all the trans stuff and I have "paid forward" well and truly over the past five years.

It is hard to know what is in another's head

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of having real life photos as avatars to begin with. I don't even like real life picture threads. It's just dangerous, you know? There's too many hate groups out there.

I don't really like seeing them anyways because I'm pretty vain and I instantly judge people based on looks whether I want to or not. I can't really do anything about that though. I guess I could probably turn them off in the look & layout settings. I might at some point.

Quote from: cheryl reeves on September 30, 2015, 04:33:42 PMThe other form is if your not on hrt your not transgender, or worse if you still like your penis your not trans. Weird what we face in our own community.

I haven't been here for all that long but I've definitely seen this on here. I've thought to myself on multiple occasions how odd it is for a community seeking acceptance for themselves outside of the stereotypical social norms that so many would be so unaccepting of people that aren't following the stereotypical transgender norms.

Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AMYes, and I have seen it first hand.  I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life.  We chatted there and also on Skype.  She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too.  I have since found out from a mutual friend, why.  She is a real person and wants to keep things separate.  Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with.  She is now a complete woman and we are not. 

Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude"  There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS.  Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery.  That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery.  It is like we are all wrong!

I don't want to try to defend this girl because I don't know the full story but I'll just play the devil's advocate here and give you my perspective on this...

When she was transitioning she probably had a transgender persona and felt like she needed support and to talk about it. But afterwords, after GCS... I know at least for me, I'd think that after I have that done that I would be female and I wouldn't want to look back on those dark times when I wasn't physically, constantly being reminded of it, and I wouldn't want to be associated with that anymore. I think I would probably also distance myself from anyone that knew. I would probably even go so far as to cut ties with everyone I know, move, and start a new life somewhere else.

Not everyone feels that way... a lot of people are very comfortable with a transgender identity. I'm not, personally, so I can totally understand wanting to get away from all of it and just be a normal girl where nobody knows any different once the transition is over.

So you know, maybe it wasn't about you. Maybe she didn't think she was better than you... just... she didn't want to think of herself, or other people to think of her, as transgender anymore. I think maybe she was just wanting to move on with her life as the new her.

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Posts regarding autogynophilia will not be tolerated and action will be taken on those who post them.

If I opened a can of worms with my post on my experience, I truly apologize.  There is more to this than meets the eye but I won't make it worse by adding anything more.

Even though I'm an advocate for femininity , I do give you brownie points for that remark cause I think you are completely right !

I hate it that when I want to date a nice guy ( via the internet ) and I tell him I'm transsexual he assumes that I already have big , fake silicone breasts and some other implants . People think too often that the amount of transsexuality is defined by the amount of surgeries or treatments you have undergone . I am so tired of that !

Because : you can operate someone with a male brain like for example Brad Pitt into a beautiful woman ( on the outside ) it will still be a male due to that masculin brain .
But you can take an alpha woman like Angelina Jolie her brain and put it in the body of an alpha male like for example George Clooney and still : Angelina will remain a woman due to her female brain . Being transgender isn't about the amount of hormones or surgeries you have or haven't had but about how truly feminin you are inside . Society should start realizing that !

What also naggs at me is that pre and non-op women are seen as lesser women by post-op wome n. While those post op women who discriminate ( not all are this way ! ) tend to forget where they stood themselves at one point in life .
I will be a post op too in a couple of years but I will never look at pre and non - op women as lesser women than myself . Because that surgery is not what will make me a woman . It is just a small correction . I already am a woman for my entire life . I think that transpeople who feel themselves more woman because they already have undergone some treatments and another transwoman did not are insecure people and base their transsexuality on the amount of treatments they underwent rather than on their soul . Such people may have the financial possibilities but end up being very unhappy very often .
See yourself as the woman you are inside , not outside . This counts for pre , post and non - op transwomen !

Mod edit: No bashing other groups under the trans umbrella. Please review the Terms of Service for this forum.

Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM
I have really realized in the last year or so if you do not have a picture of yourself that is either dressed up or in female clothes that you are looked upon as a joke and that you perhaps are a troll. I think I am just frustrated that I am not taken serious because I have a male picture posted and that its not me in female clothes and that its still the me that was born the way I have to deal with being.

I am starting to care less and less what people even within the transgender community have to say or what they think. I am now starting to realize why we have such a high percentage of suicides is because we do nothing to embrace our own no matter what. So what if I am still living full time as a man and don't really have the chances to dress up or show my feminine side, trust me I really wish that I could.

I suppressed my feelings about wanting to be a woman for years and years and just recently they have resurfaced and its harder to bury them and deny who I am. It is hard to shave the beard off when I am still very much a guy and then have people say that I can't be a woman and still have a beard. I mean could I say that they will never be a woman unless they get rid of there male genitalia? No that would be mean and make no sense.

I have decided that if I am going to be bashed or picked apart because of what I have to say or my opinion then I am going to start dealing with that head on and voicing what I have to say. You should really create a venting room and if you do have one and I have not seen it please do post this there. I just am tired of all the big headed folks that think they are better than others because they are not in the same part emotionally as others.

I've posted my pictures from the very start of my transition for no other reason than I like to see my progression , like posting my picture on a billboard on a California freeway for my own perception of how I'm doing. Everyone has their own unique way of dealing with their transition. I've just chosen to post my picture purely for my own learning curve. I've lived 63 years as a man and was able to finally do it so I'm taking full advantage of expressing my self. Everyone needs to find their own path and be as free as everyone else in doing so. The purpose of transition or asking and seeking answers is to become healthy no more no less and that is for all.( The picture is from 2 years ago) I was 61

 If I may also say I know the feeling of discrimination from the point of view of my age .  If I would of listened to what others said of transitioning when your past 20 years old I would of jump from my favorite apartment building. For whatever reason whether just sheer ignorance or some perverted sense of pleasure some people in society can be mean spirited. You just need to press on and heal yourself.

I can remember back in my second year of transition when I made contact with the trans 'subculture' in a big city here in New Zealand and being really disturbed by the bitchiness and back biting.  There was one transwoman that the group considered to be a walking disaster and whenever anybody was feeling down they'd go and visit her because it made them feel better that they weren't as big a 'mess' as she was.  It didn't help either that this unfortunate transwoman'd had the 'op' which only made her a larger target for jealousy and general bitchiness.

I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!

It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.

I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.

I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.

It is just so wild that it got so much responses

Quote from: Sandy74 on October 10, 2015, 11:01:07 AM
I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!

It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.

I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.

I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.

It is just so wild that it got so much responses

Don't let anyone tell you who you are . Some people look beautiful on the outside while transitioning  but they are frightened because they have not a feminin mind . Deep inside they know that their will to be female is just sexually driven and they are so ashamed of themselves because they have the mind of a guy and want to be female that they feel like freaks and then they are going to chase on people like you who maybe might look male on the outside but be perfectly feminin on the inside .

Remember : what really makes you a woman is your  inside , not your outside !

People attacking you know deep inside they have a lack of womanhood no matter how many surgeries ,... they undergo and then they just search someone to punish . Defend yourself , give them a mirror of their character .

Besides : attacking someone just random is all except feminin . Proves that they will never be a woman ... Says nothing about you hun

Xxx

I agree, and if someone sends you a disrespectful PM, just contact a moderator and they will deal with the problem. Several months ago someone sent me a PM that was nasty and defamatory, because I disagreed with the way they handled a situation, so I forwarded the PM to a moderator, and that person received quite an earful.

Yes. I have heard of a couple of cases where someone refused to be seen with someone because she wasn't in there own words "passable." Add to that there are some folks who will assert that you aren't truly trans* if (fill in the blank).

Some of the ones I've personally heard --

"You're not truly trans if you like women." (directed at transwomen)
"You're not truly trans if you haven't had SRS."

StephanieC you are amazing!  You look so different in such a short time   Just wonderful and I think it's great you can see and enjoy your own progress, even though some people do not like old pics of themselves.  My old photos from childhood can be a bit awful to review, but more for the terrible haircuts and 80's fashions than my own personal trauma, ah ha...

I am pretty bad at proper pronouns, I misgender myself a lot in my own head simply from old habit and I have been bad at friend's proper gender, but I am also VERY bad at speaking coherently when I stress out, so I think most of them can blame it on my jumbled brain.  I was irritated at my boss for calling me "she" but all of a sudden he's correcting himself more often and now I am thinking 'she' when I talk about myself.  It's a really bizarre see saw, would I rather be misgendering myself constantly or have others doing it instead?  Just wierd.

Sandy I think you are awesome to use your own photos- to me, it's like incentive for you to think about your life and take stock of the things you feel are important.  I feel like you've already thought on these things quite a lot and I always appreciate your posts.  Even though you are often asking advice,it's clear you have been doing research and soul searching of your own before you ask.

I know a few transpeople who do not like trans support groups.  A genderqueer dude I know had another friend who latched onto the transman/genderqueer combo and then really rapidly get on HRT and top surgery.  I sort of shrugged and was only bothered because I knew that person was the 'leap without looking' sort and I would hate for him to burn himself out or get past the point of changes he wanted and possibly not be entirely happy with the amount of T influence... I don't know, honestly- I didn't care that much. It was and always has been his body not mine.  Personally, I wouldn't be able to change that much so fast, but if I had had insurance that would have covered it at the time, I could have gone a bit swifter   I said as much, but the other dude kept OBSESSING on it and it got a bit excessive.  After awhile I just had to change the subject if he brought it up but sometimes I just nodded and tuned out for the sake of not wanting to argue about it.  At one point I believe I was told, "he'll always look like a boy but you'll look like a man," with the idea that we'd be more manly or something.  I don't want to think about the fallout if I had confront them about that sort of thing, but I should have known better from previous experiences that I shouldn't encourage his OCD or his envy... :/

I posted a comment on my regular facebook account on a Transgender site about the topic they had was drag queens and how they are not serious transgender folks and have no desires or feelings at all any of them that they are transgender and I made a simple comment that was like just accept yourself and not to worry about so many labels and just be happy with you are no matter what, so they blocked me from making comments and from ever making them in the future and they deleted my comment.

I just don't understand some people that want acceptance but then they go ahead and judge everyone and what they do or are going through and then when you voice an opinion it is shot down and you are blocked? I just am starting to get really frustrated with being involved in the Trans community even if it is just online and the closet is looking more and more better than being out and about involved on facebook that has to do with being trans and all that.

I guess I have lots to think about. Thanks for all the responses people.

Unfortunately some folk in the TG community are like that Sandy.  As you've discovered from being a member here on Susan's we all certainly aren't like that.

I really think you're reqding too much into it. Why should you care what some online group thinks? None of it matters. Just worry about your feelings and what you can do to be happy in life. That's all. Life is all we get, it's mostly ->-bleeped-<- and it over fast.

Quote from: Sandy74 on October 10, 2015, 11:01:07 AM
I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!

It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.

I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.

I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.

It is just so wild that it got so much responses

I don't really know what to say here - but to be fair the first bit of that is correct. I've been treated as 'female' for want of a better word for much of my life. Even when people haven't known. Now I get treated, by and large, as explicitly female. Which makes a lot more sense - and I haven't been attacked, assaulted or abused by men for a while now. Yay!!!!  I'll leave groping out. That's happened, along with unpleasant sexual comments and objectification, guilt tripping and whatever. But it's what I have to deal with as me, rather than as a plastic boy.

Trouble is that male privilege, the thing I don't have, is presumably quite hard to give up? It looks awesome to an outsider - y'know all that sharing guy stuff and boy's nights and pulling birds and whatever they do. I suppose bits of it are fun! 

I don't want to try and sound exclusive here - because I'm not at all - but I think the whole business of wanting to transition to a female role is to take on the full lot of being a woman. It's just what I think. Unfortunately being a woman isn't as good as being a man - in a patriarchal society - so I also think it's important to look at aspects of feminism and female empowerment to at least get even with men. I've possibly had different experiences - like being expected to fetch a junior (male) work colleague's tea!! Hilarious - but that's male privilege for you.

But then part of the female role does entail giving up male privilege. I've noticed this strongly in social groups; almost as an unconscious thing. I don't get treated the same any more. With strangers and at work I was always being talked over and contradicted and whatever but now that even seems to happen with male acquaintances who I know aren't even doing it on purpose.  So what does this mean? A successful transition - to be seen and treated as a woman - comes with the heavy price (for some) of a class and social status downgrade. Those who have been through it know about it and you'll possibly have that joy to come.

Or there's always the other side, remaining in the male role? I mean, to be really harsh sounding and I don't mean to be at all, your friend was probs. thinking about that when she said you wouldn't know about having the female mentality. It's completely true - there's a completely different set of expectations and whatever over here. Even simple stuff like when a random old man comes up and starts flirting with you when all you want to do is get a coffee!! Do you know what to do when that happens? I wasn't expecting it lol  Sort of had to slip into my least appealing Eliza Doolittle voice and be nice to him. At which point the pensioner was like OMG she's common and scuttled off. I am, but that's beside the point. Everyone's different - but to really know what it is to be a woman does entail living socially as one, in my opinion. About 90% of it is lovely. I wouldn't give it up for anything. 10% is negative interactions with men - but I had those in greater numbers without the nice bits pre-transition. Also it allows you to fit into girl groups properly, and it sort of helps them out too! They were accepting right at the start of this - but now I'm living as one of them I feel the bonds have got stronger.

And it's like I do think we need to have a commitment to some practical representation of transgender or transsexual (I prefer the latter! I'm not changing my gender but I would like to alter some bits of my body  ) And to be female you have to let go of what is potentially good for you about living as male. I understand that you might not think it's clothes or hair or some other thing that makes a woman. It's not!! Very unfortunately we get made by social conditioning and treatment. And going round with a beard is straight away going to put you firmly back in guy-town. At least socially. It doesn't mean you aren't trans - but some people are going to see it as a delaying move - holding fast to that which is male for as long as possible. Plus what's the point in going through it at all otherwise? There's always non-binary for that. But I think if you truly consider yourself to have a gender, then you've got to make a commitment to that gender.

And part of that commitment is to take on everything that it means to be female - in part giving up the male markers.

Sorry for the essay - none of this is easy but it's like the one thing I've got strong feelings about. You've got to be a strong person, it takes courage to do this and you'll get there. Only, for me, it wasn't going to happen with a thin male mask on.

Missy xx

p.s. Laser is better than electrolysis