Hello E and Deborah,

Thank you so much. I really needed to hear something supportive. I am my own worse enemy. Most of the doubt, uncertainty, fear and whatever else is created by my own mind. I have only come out to my wife, therapist and Susan's. Not one single person has been unsupportive other than me.

Would someone please hit me with a 4x2 to knock some sense into me? I get myself all wound up and worried for no reason other than I have created some impossible scenario in my mind. I need someone to periodically slap me back to reality.

E, don't worry, I'm not about to do anything stupid. I come up with horrible dark thoughts, but every single time I can come up with several reasons why that would be totally stupid, selfish, cowardly and just plain inconsiderate to the people that care for me. I'm not going anywhere. Thank you for caring.

Jayne

I used to try and
second guess myself based on personal interests but for every instance I could point out a real life exception to whatever rule I tried dreaming up.  Plus I raised both a son and a daughter and it's a whole lot more complicated than liking to cook or hating sports for instance.  Not to mention that the US Army just this week has its third CIS woman graduate as a US Army Ranger.  So what can we make out from that stereotypically male pass time?  There are just too many exceptions to reach any meaningful conclusions based solely on interests.

The best I can come up with is that it's just an innate sense of self.  Unfortunately that is a sense that is virtually impossible to describe or communicate in words.


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Hi Deborah, thanks for the reply.

Quote from: Deborah on October 15, 2015, 07:57:06 PM
I used to try and
second guess myself based on personal interests but for every instance I could point out a real life exception to whatever rule I tried dreaming up.  Plus I raised both a son and a daughter and it's a whole lot more complicated than liking to cook or hating sports for instance.  Not to mention that the US Army just this week has its third CIS woman graduate as a US Army Ranger.  So what can we make out from that stereotypically male pass time?  There are just too many exceptions to reach any meaningful conclusions based solely on interests.

That makes sense. I never truly believed that what our interests are define how we feel inside, or that you are more male or female based on what you do. When I start doubting myself, my mind stops working logically and I start reasoning in ways that really make no sense. I know that being an army ranger doesn't make a woman any less of a woman or not liking sports make a male any less of a man. However, I stupidly use arguments like that to try and convince myself I'm not trans.

Quote from: Deborah on October 15, 2015, 07:57:06 PM
The best I can come up with is that it's just an innate sense of self.  Unfortunately that is a sense that is virtually impossible to describe or communicate in words.

You're not kidding! I cannot describe it to myself let alone put it into words that someone else could understand.

I have confused myself so much. I don't think of myself as a woman. That seems foreign to me. However, if I was to say I am a female, that somehow fits and feels ok. Don't ask me why the different words make a difference to me. I don't know. Obviously, not having started any form of transition, I am physically male. But if I was to medically transition, I think I could easily see and accept myself as female, but I don't think I could call myself a woman. Does that make any sense to anyone or am I just getting picky with words?

I've never really thought of myself as a man either. Sometimes I'll be waiting in line at the checkout in a supermarket or something and I'll hear a mother tell their little child to step aside and let the man through (I might only be buying 1 thing). It takes me a moment to register she was referring to me.

Jayne

I get paid well to second guess and worse case things to death. In my work I design things that can kill people or otherwise cause very bad things to happen if not used right. And of course there is the always present admonition from the owner of the first company I worked for "We don't make money on In-Warranty Repairs".  When it comes to second guessing things to death, playing out scenarios to their ultimate end, I am a Queen. BUT, it is slowly sinking into my thick skull that it is all very one sided.... The worse case scenario and never the best case scenario. It is easy to blame over-thinking things as an occupational hazard. The truth is, for me, it is or was part or my core essence that helped me in one aspect of my life. It is also a major detriment in others.

Then, there is the "Who made you God?" or "Since when were you appointed Empress of the Universe?"  question I've gotten a lot from my wife as well as my therapist. Why you ask? Because there I am wanting to control said universe and/or the future. History has proven I have pretty much zero ability to predict the future, much less control it.

One lesson I've learned these past six years on my journey is I am 0 for 100 when it comes to correctly predicting anything trans related. Too close to the problem maybe? Yet that still doesn't stop me from trying. Just not as hard or as often as it used to be. Maybe it is just the overwhelming futility or sense of hopelessness about me and my life for any sort of happiness or joy? The feeling that my whole purpose in life is just to be that good soldier that does what she is told/asked to without any concern for her own well being?

To get past this you need to try to live more in the moment. Not in the past. Not in the future. Are you in a better place now, or worse? What parts are better? What parts are worse? Is this place Good Enough? The most difficult question for me. The answer more so since it can and does change often. Especially when the spanner gets dropped into the gear box.... again

Hi Joanne. You and I seem similar in many respects. I overthink things a lot. In my work, that is a good thing. If I screw up at work, people will die by the 100's. So I will think of endless scenarios to make sure the decisions I make are the right ones so that people are safe. That doesn't help so much in life outside of work. At work, constantly thinking up worse case scenarios is one way to make sure that none of these scenarios eventuate. But in some respects, that is kind of easy because I understand the machines that I work on. And as complex as these machines are, they have nothing on the human mind. I understand very little about how the mind works, so I default back to my engineer brain and start relating things to machines, and that is not a very good comparison. I like what you said about second guessing everything is very one sided. There is always the best case scenario to think about. I never thought of it that way.

If I was one of my machines at work, I would cut all the power and do a full reboot. Maybe some of those gremlins would go away. If my mind worked on computer code, I could just imagine all these different subroutines each doing their thing trying to achieve conflicting goals and they would be stuck in an endless loop first going one way then the opposite way.

Jayne

I going to see my therapist today. Last week we talked about doing some tests for other conditions to see if they might be causing my dysphoria. Things like depression, anxiety, autism, she mentioned a bunch of stuff. I think it is purely for my benefit as a process of elimination. She is already quite confident that I am transgender, but I need to work it out for myself. Maybe doing these tests might help. If it is nothing else, then the only thing left is me being trans. I don't know what format these tests take, I'll find out today hopefully.

Jayne

Just saw my therapist. It was a good session. She wasn't able to do the tests we talked about for a number of reasons. Due to my continuing resistance to accepting myself and any form of transition, she came with an experiment for me to try until our next session.

I think because I feel like I sight somewhere in the middle of the gender spectrum with occassional trips to both ends of the spectrum, I can't imagine myself transitioning in any physical way. There are also other reasons that make me think it might not be a good idea for me. So instead I'm going to try and set Jayne free within my head where she can reside in my mental happy place. Maybe that way I can learn to accept that Jayne forms part of what makes me ME, but she doesn't do it alone. John is part of me too. So if I can allow the male and female parts of me to co-exist rather than try to have only one side take over, then maybe that is the answer for me, without any physical outward transition being necessary.

It is worth giving it a try for. I'll see how it goes.

John/Jayne (Joyne??? )

Hi Jayne.  Sorry it took so long to get back with you.  Here are some books that may be helpful;

Trans Bodies, Trans Selves (Laura Erickson Schruth); Trans Complete (Joanne Borden); On Becoming A Woman (Jennifer Corbett); and finally The Transgender Guidebook (Anne L. Boedecker).

Hope this helps  :-)

Be safe!

Marlo

Quote from: Jayne01 on October 22, 2015, 01:19:08 AM
Just saw my therapist. It was a good session. She wasn't able to do the tests we talked about for a number of reasons. Due to my continuing resistance to accepting myself and any form of transition, she came with an experiment for me to try until our next session.

I think because I feel like I sight somewhere in the middle of the gender spectrum with occassional trips to both ends of the spectrum, I can't imagine myself transitioning in any physical way. There are also other reasons that make me think it might not be a good idea for me. So instead I'm going to try and set Jayne free within my head where she can reside in my mental happy place. Maybe that way I can learn to accept that Jayne forms part of what makes me ME, but she doesn't do it alone. John is part of me too. So if I can allow the male and female parts of me to co-exist rather than try to have only one side take over, then maybe that is the answer for me, without any physical outward transition being necessary.

It is worth giving it a try for. I'll see how it goes.

John/Jayne (Joyne??? )

I've been trying the "peacefully coexist" route for some 5 years now. The Ying-Yang tugging and pulling this way and that is a MAJOR emotional drain. I have just as many and equally valid reason to go one way, or the other. Maintaining stability in a dynamically unstable system takes more more processing power then I have available while standing on the corner of Hopelessness and Futility.

I have doubts it is even humanly possible. My wife is absolutely sure of the path I am going to take. I look forward to the day I wake up on the un-sunny side of the grass, rather then reverting back to the numbed, emotionally shutdown in order to cope, existence I had.

Hi Marlo and Joanne.

Marlo, No problem! Thanks for the references. My therapist actually let me borrow her copy of Trans Bodies, Trans Selves just last week. Lots of info in that book.

Joanne, I can understand the emotional drain you are talking about. I don't really see any alternative for me. If I can make it work it would be the best solution for me, short of the previously mentioned magic blue pill to send Jayne off permanently to greener pastures. It has taken my whole life to reach a place where I am comfortable and happy with life and then Jayne decided to take control of my mind. I don't want to lose everything I have worked for in my life, wife, house, job, family, etc. It is no doubt going to take some serious effort and will power to keep Jayne only within the confines of my mind. Maybe not locked up and buried, but somehow just form part of me without any physical transition. That might burn me out mentally, but if I don't give it a try I will feel like I just gave up too easily and I'm not one to just walk away from a challenge.

Jayne

I'm 61 and this has been buried since forever. I'm just starting this but since I've opened this door, I don't think I can shut it again, and on some level I really don't want to... I'm not sure that's a good idea. My whole life I've shut myself off from people protecting this secret and it has taken a toll. Just be careful. Please. (This from someone who has only told a therapist and one very accepting friend. Not my wife. Ask me again in a few weeks.)


Dori.

Quote from: JoanneB on October 22, 2015, 09:11:04 PM
I have doubts it is even humanly possible. My wife is absolutely sure of the path I am going to take. I look forward to the day I wake up on the un-sunny side of the grass, rather then reverting back to the numbed, emotionally shutdown in order to cope, existence I had.

Hi Joanne,

Interesting, my wife is pretty sure that eventually I'll transition.  I haven't done it in 50+ years, I'm not sure how she can be so sure.

Take care,
Paige

I love a good irony...

What sends me into spontaneous crying jags, keeps me up at night, the cause of many a hangover, why I've once again spent a week crying myself to sleep is the gut wrenching fear and the dread of "reverting". Reverting back into that "thing" I used to be before I ventured once again down this road.

The Dark Side of the Force is powerfull

Quote from: JoanneB on October 24, 2015, 07:08:56 AM
I love a good irony...

What sends me into spontaneous crying jags, keeps me up at night, the cause of many a hangover, why I've once again spent a week crying myself to sleep is the gut wrenching fear and the dread of "reverting". Reverting back into that "thing" I used to be before I ventured once again down this road.

The Dark Side of the Force is powerfull

I know.  It's like I'm in a cave venturing out for the first time.  Ahead I see light, but it's unknown and I feel fear of the unknown.  But behind is only darkness and there are monsters lurking in that darkness.  I pause to consider the choice but really there is no choice so I turn back towards the light to take another step.


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Quote from: Deborah on October 24, 2015, 08:22:52 AM
I know.  It's like I'm in a cave venturing out for the first time.  Ahead I see light, but it's unknown and I feel fear of the unknown.  But behind is only darkness and there are monsters lurking in that darkness.  I pause to consider the choice but really there is no choice so I turn back towards the light to take another step.

I know that feeling Deborah. Everything in front of me seems daunting and unknown, and it scares me. But if I look back at what I was before I accepted my self, the mere thought of going back to that person scares the hell out of me worse. So I am taking small steps out of that darkness and I am finally after so many years of confusion and self loathing starting to see a light in front of me that looks bright, and I am drawn to it.
    Stanna

Hello everyone,

I haven't been on here for a bit. I took some time to try and figure some stuff out. I thought I had a good plan. I was intending to somehow keep Jayne in some kind of "happy" place in my mind while continuing to live a "normal" male life. HA!!!!! Am I delusional or what!

Today I had this uncontrollable urge to once again shave my legs. I then proceeded to put on a pair of stockings, then I wore some shorts and went out to the shops. First time I have ever been out in anything remotely feminine. The stockings were skin colour, so not easily visible from a distance. Most people would thing that going out in public is some kind of achievement. I had this complete and utter hatred for myself. I was so ashamed that I am unable to control my feelings. I feel like a complete failure as a man, as a human.

Deep down in my subconscious, it is becoming painfully clear that I want/need to be a woman. However, the conscious everyday me wants to be a normal everyday man. I keep having thoughts of the world being a better place without me. The hate I have for myself is so total and complete right now. I just want to drive my car off a cliff. (Don't worry, there are no cliffs anywhere near me!). I won't do anything to myself, but the thoughts keep entering my mind. It's like I have zero control over my own life. How can I absolutely want to be a man, but at the same time have this underlying desire and need to be a woman?

I am at a complete loss about what I should do. I don't want to feel like this! I must be destined to live my life as a ....... I don't even know what I am........

Sorry for yet another depressing post. I feel very lost right now.

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on November 01, 2015, 08:07:20 PM
... How can I absolutely want to be a man, but at the same time have this underlying desire and need to be a woman?

For me, my dear old friends, Shame & Guilt were behind most of it

You have to love the feeling of being woman. We have the rare pleasure of seeing it from both sides, woman is about love, Never hate yourself for feeling so good as  a woman, I am new in this community but  I have gone through of twenty five years of hiding my feelings. Now that I am alone I am enjoying an awesome and scary ride not knowing how far this will take me. If you are forced to be both genders always remember the female side is the nice one, the peaceful one.

There is definitely no shortage of shame or guilt in my head. I shouldn't feel that way. It should be ok to be yourself right? Why should shame and guilt come to the party, they weren't invited!!

BurnieBells, when I do think of myself as female, and before shame, guilt and self loathing have a chance to creep in, I do indeed feel more peaceful, which I guess in turn would make me nicer. Hmmmmm?!? That should tell me something shouldn't it?

Jayne

Quote from: Jayne01 on November 02, 2015, 09:04:26 PM
There is definitely no shortage of shame or guilt in my head. I shouldn't feel that way. It should be ok to be yourself right? Why should shame and guilt come to the party, they weren't invited!!

BurnieBells, when I do think of myself as female, and before shame, guilt and self loathing have a chance to creep in, I do indeed feel more peaceful, which I guess in turn would make me nicer. Hmmmmm?!? That should tell me something shouldn't it?

Jayne

Hi Jayne:

I've reading along and note that many here are genuinely contributing and offering their help, stories and feelings for you.  I am glad we have this place just for moments like this.

I also wanted to share a thought I had this evening as re-read the last page of this thread.  Behavior, in part, is fundamentally a means of satisfying needs we have - all our needs in someway or another contribute to why we behave the way we do; it's how our machinery works.  Of course, there are tons of strategies and coping skills that come into play to as part of the learned behaviors in response to our needs. 

Given this, I wonder what you are getting for yourself out of the see-saw ride you are on.  As I thought about that I also recalled that because I need something does not mean that I'll be better off when that need is met; in fact, during my transition quite often just the opposite was true.  I began to unpack what those underlying needs were without attribution that they made me a good or bad person to have those needs - I just had them and that was that.  This meant I couldn't have any excuses or circumstances either; rather, I had my needs.  Everything else was consequence of having them.

So the big question became, what's the payoff from satisfying those needs, particularly ones that clearly weren't helpful with respect to my 'my' overall health, well-being and spirit.  At that point I could make a rational, logic based assessment of whether I wanted that payoff or not.  Hmmm, my needs weren't immutable were they.  With that came the realization that I could choose to have that payoff or not . . .  Either way it became a choice and choice was/is one he__ of a lot easier to live with than the whims and whips of satisfying some unspecified set of needs. 

It made me become an honest broker with myself (not making any assumptions about you here) and life began to take shape in the form of: 1) This is who I am, 2) I choose to do these things to satisfy the needs I have chosen to satisfy (and the opposite is true, i.e. not choosing a need), and 3) I get what I get because I am choosing it - consciously or not.

It wasn't overnight and it wasn't and still isn't perfect, but for sure there's little wiggle room anymore for not having what I want (aka satisfying my needs).

This sounds pretty airy-fairy but it's the fundamental difference in having the life you want (and you've got to own you want it) and being happy about the state of affairs therein day-to-day.

Love and all the best,

Rachel