So I don't fit into the "classic transsexual" pattern. I didn't start having these feelings until I was 10, I've never felt like I was female, only that I want to be female, and while I've felt a lot of dysphoria it has never been so bad that I sought any type of self harm.

People talk about girl mode as "being the real me," but I honestly don't see myself that way. The real me is me, I just seem to want the real me to have breasts and a vagina, and I have no idea why. I'm not out to anyone other than my therapist but it seems like it would be easier to explain a transition to friends and family if I felt like I was letting some other person out but I honestly don't feel that way. I've read about theories about what causes ->-bleeped-<-, that it's caused by in utero changes.

*Trigger warning*

Seeing these explanations makes it worse, it makes me feel even less like I'm "really a woman," and more a confirmation that I'm a defective man. Which is what I've felt like for much of my adult life.

*end trigger warning*

I just think that if I were closer to the classical narrative that I wouldn't have been able to deny it for so long, and I'd have been looking at transitioning at 23 instead of 33. Plus the argument about being myself could potentially help with explaining things to friends and family, and to myself really. I feel like I'm potentially turning my entire life upside down for something more akin to a bad case of hemorrhoids than some validation of my identity. Any thoughts or words of encouragement? If nothing else at least I could get this off my chest.

Hon,

I've been on this site for seven years. I have read thousands of posts. One thing I have learned is that there is NO conventional narrative. I now do counselling for transgender/gender questioning people. There is no conventional narrative.

Yes there are similarities among some people, yes pain in not being able to be themselves is common. But there is a lot of variance in how people want to tackle that.

Susan's by its nature can bring in a bias in posts from MtF and FtM posts. But I do question that bias. I honestly feel that many people explain their experience in order to fall into a conventional narrative.

There are issues of acceptance - 'if I am like you then I will be accepted by you.' It doesn't work that way. We are all unique, we are wonderful and thank the goddess for such diversity. I would recoil from a thought that we are 'all the same'. We are not!

Indeed we accept people from every narrative. No one is more or less transgender or gender questioning than anyone else - even if they don't question their gender.

As for explanations to people, my standard answer is I don't know why, but I am. Why aren't you transgender, I thought everyone was when I was growing up?

Quote from: AnamethatstartswithE on October 17, 2015, 02:36:41 AM
Seeing these explanations makes it worse, it makes me feel even less like I'm "really a woman," and more a confirmation that I'm a defective man. Which is what I've felt like for much of my adult life.

I know where you're coming from.

I too, can't check any of the classic narrative boxes. It took me 50 years even to figure out what my problem was. I've now been living full time as a woman for more than two years, even had GRS, and I still don't feel like I'm "really a woman" most of the time, feel like a man more of the time.

I've accepted the fact that I'm non-binary gender - that my gender identity will never be completely female - and that that's OK.

My gender therapist encourages me not to try to figure out whether I'm male or female, but instead to understand how I want to live.

The answer to that is easy. I need to be a woman and to have a woman's body. Non-binary people and those that don't fit the traditional narrative are just as entitled to transition to live as their true authentic selves, whatever that means to them, as any other transgender person. We're not required to stay on the sidelines cheering on the everyone else while fighting our own dysphoria. We have a right to the bodies and the lives we want.

Does this help?

Thank you Cindy and Suzi, I don't know if I'm adequately expressing what I'm going through. It seems to be a lot of different things so hopefully I can make it coherent. I think it's partly as I said earlier, I want to be physically female (why I have no idea, it's just there) while I don't really think of my "self" or "soul" as already female. Furthermore while I know you two are examples, I still have a really hard time thinking of transition as a real thing. I sometimes think to myself that I might as well plan my career on the starship Enterprise, they're equally likely. Because of this I can't shake the idea that even if I transition completely smoothly that I still won't be a woman, that I'll just be this big human mistake walking around.

When I hear things like love songs they can actually trigger me. I feel like I SHOULD be able to be the guy in the song but I know that I just can't make it work, but I don't really identify with the girl either. (Though this may partly be because I'm currently only into women) A couple of weeks ago I was eating breakfast in a hotel and after the third song in a row came on I had to leave because I felt so left out that I was afraid I would start crying.

I would also like to have a family, but I have been having real trouble with relationships (having a giant secret doesn't help). Assuming I stay attracted to women after transition I'm at the point where I can make a logical argument that taking cross sex hormones, sterilizing myself and taking on a female gender role seems to be the most likely way I can find a partner with whom I can have biological children (I intend to freeze sperm before I start). I also think this is insane.

To get back to my original point if I had always felt like I was a woman in a man's body, then it would be easier to accept what I seem to want to do. Now I just feel like I am mentally ill, and that I can't control my own mind. It's very frustrating, and I keep coming back to thinking "Why me?"

Wow that got longer than I thought it would.

You're not so different to me. I have no idea why I want what I do, and I'm not ever sure what it means to be male or female anymore. It's all very confusing. Due to my personal situation I refuse to socially transition if I can avoid it, but I'm perfectly prepared to have SRS anyway.

The one thing I've learned is that I can't survive by doing nothing. I've had some very scary depression, and that was going to end badly if I didn't do something. The why of all this doesn't matter. What other people do and think is ultimately not important. It would be reassuring to fit the stereotype, but that's about it. So I accept what I am without understanding it or trying to justify anything, and I feel a whole lot better for it.

Hi E,

I can understand exactly what you are saying. I feel very similar to what you have described. I don't feel like a woman in a mans body, but I have this inexplicable desire or need to have a female body. It is driving me insane! Last week my therapist asked me if I would prefer that she referred to me as a woman with a female name and pronouns. Currently I present 100% male. When she said "woman" I couldn't really see myself as a "woman". If she used the word "female" instead, I would have related to it. I can't explain the distinction between the two words, but to me there is some kind of difference. I seem to function OK as I am except for this constant underlying desire to have a female body. Maybe it's because my personality and interests are more closely aligned with a "tomboy" than a "girlie" girl. I am also attracted to women and not men.

To me, it kind of sounded that you are in a similar place as me.

Jayne

The conventional narrative is a complete myth. I can't tell you WHY I wanted to be seen as a woman, I just knew I did. I thought transition would provide some answers - it didn't really, but I'm now happy enough with my life that I don't care about those answers any more. I lived most of my life as a fem gay guy, mostly because it allowed me to be mostly me.. Turns out I'm a lesbian. The realisation that I'd never loved a guy and could never love a guy had nothing to do with hormones and everything to do with some deep introspection.

Yes, I was worried that I didn't fit the narrative, but my well experienced therapist was clearly of the opinion that I was trans. He told me that the standard narrative is a myth - we all get to where we are via different routes, things happen at different times and we all have different things that help us cope with or avoid the issue.

And so, here I am, 5 and a bit years later, living the boringly average life of a 40yo lesbian.. And I love it. I love myself - for the first time in my life.

I posted something pretty similar like this the other day so I understand how you feel. There really are loads of people it seems with similar feelings as yours and mine. Even though I'm constantly questioning I do know that. It just makes knowing what to do about it really hard, like you say.

I'm not sure I feel like my 'soul' is female. I don't feel like it has a gender. I cross-dressed secretly from as young as I can remember. But I never hated being a boy. I dreamt of being a girl, but in the same way I dreamt of being able to fly. I was a boy, felt like a boy, and didn't question that for a second. It doesn't help that all my hobbies are sports, and some fairly macho sports at that. If I hadn't had an injury that took that passion away from me I 100% have no doubt that I wouldn't have got to this point. For me its also mostly just wanting to look female. I can't go through with anything unless I can figure out if it will help me in other ways too. I have always felt different to others in that I seem to lack any form of self-esteem. I hate myself because of a lot of things about my personality, and try and block out aspects of that myself showing to others. Maybe that has something to do with gender issues but I have no idea how to determine for sure. I've started trying to imagine I was female as I'm walking around doing every day stuff. It feels fake. But yet I know that if I could snap my fingers and be a cis female it would feel fine, and like a massive relief. I was trying to imagine being a girl the other day out watching a rugby game. It seemed absurd. I felt like I'd gone crazy. But then I go home and within 5 minutes I'm convinced I want to be female and I need to get help. The conflict between loving and being good at sports and having gender dysphoria really messes you up. When I look in the mirror I want to see a small female body, I loathe my bony masculine looking face, and my thinning hair, then any time I'm thinking about my interests and getting inspired I think no way I want to get in the gym and be big and athletic.

Anyway I can't really offer advice because I also wish I fitted the 'conventional narrative' , as much as that even exists, but its helped me to hear other people feel the same.

Your post sums up how I feel and if or where I fit in somewhere specific in the TG spectrum.  I don't feel female or believe I have been born in the wrong body.  I tell myself that I have the wrong brain to be a man.  Am I saying the same thing in a different way or?  I really don't know.

I am don't have enough male in me to be a male and too much of it to be anything other than male.  All my life I have felt different (for years I thought I was just not normal and broken).  I am still confused to this day.

I sincerely hope you are able to move forward and be happy with whatever you decide on.

I am certainly the odd duck in my TG support group. Over the 6 years I've been there, there have been many newbies. Scared and afraid as I was. Within months or a couple of years, fully out, living and working in the gender they desire. Six years later I try to balance a male life against my female life needs. Many have lost their spouses in the process, I haven't. Most joined the transition or die club. I only asked for the membership forms.

Then there are the physical attributes, or lack thereof.

I am what I am. An amalgam of my life experiences, needs, wants, desires, hopes, wishes and dreams. All shared and influenced by the world and people around me. Shared with one special person with her own uniqueness.

"Narratives"  are great for children's books/stories as a simplistic way to explain a complicated world. Not great for real life

Hi -

If anyone figures this out, I'm really interested.  I finally had to move on in a way that met my needs and I'm sure it wouldn't work for others by in large. 

I ran out of energy trying to fit "the common/typical/normative blah, blah, blah narrative."  I could go on as this is one of my hot buttons, but thankfully I'm over it (really???    ). 

Sooo friends, that's it from uniformity central . . .

You'll do fine by making a life you want and being comfortable living it.  It just takes time and some experimenting.

Take good care,

Rachel

P.S.  No really, I'm over it, really!!!

I think you are a lot closer to the typical pattern than you think.  I have only been on this forum for a couple of months, and already, I have seen quite a few people like you and me.  The classical "woman trapped in a man's body" myth is only one of many ways that ->-bleeped-<- can present itself.

I have never felt particularly male or female.  I'm just me.  I wish I were a woman, but I don't "feel like" one because I have no idea how that feels. 

Like you say, because our form of presentation is subtle, it is easy to deny for a long time.  When you say, "I'd have been looking at transitioning at 23 instead of 33," my version would be, "I'd have been looking at transitioning at 41 instead of 61."  It can take a long time to figure out who one's real self is.  Apparently, this is not at all uncommon.

Finding "the real me" is what it is all about.  Part of the challenge is balancing different, possibly contradictory, parts of the "real self".  For me, what is keeping me from coming out is knowing the chaos and suffering that doing so will impose on those around me.  The part of the real me that resists causing suffering to others is no less real than the part that wants to be a woman.  Maybe it is more real.  I'd have to kill off that part of the real me in order to liberate the other part.  I am still exploring to see if there is a balance somewhere.

Hang in there!  You are not "defective".  You are you.  You just have to be the best you that you can be.

It's certainly good to know that there are others out there like me who apparently do not fit the conventional myth.  In reading these posts I see myself in parts of a number of them.  I'm still trying to figure out where I am on the chart, but I'm on it somewhere and trying to figure things out. 

Thank you everyone.

It's nice to find that I'm not alone. I still have issues with believing that transitioning is even a possibility, and with being able to visualize myself as a woman.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced this weird feeling where. When I'm in boy mode I wonder if it's real at all, and if I'm just psyching myself into this when I really don't want it deep down. Whereas when I'm in girl mode I feel certain that I want to be a girl.

This is a very strange way to live.

I get the same feelings.  Sometimes, like right now I am content with the way I am (boy mode) and don't think I could be a girl.  Perhaps it is just uncertainty or plain fear, I just don't know.

For 43 years of my life I believed the crap I was fed about how I'm supposed to fit neatly into this little cisheteronormative box.  After I came out, there was no freaking way that I was going to take further procrustean measures to make sure that I fit neatly into the conventional trans narrative box in another futile attempt to "fit in" with another crowd.

The fact is that there are as many ways to be trans as there are trans people. 

Thank you, E, for starting one of the most helpful threads I have read since joining this site.  So many of you have voiced thoughts I have had as well:

Quote from: Jayne01 on October 17, 2015, 06:26:31 PM
I don't feel like a woman in a mans body, but I have this inexplicable desire or need to have a female body. It is driving me insane! Last week my therapist asked me if I would prefer that she referred to me as a woman with a female name and pronouns. Currently I present 100% male. When she said "woman" I couldn't really see myself as a "woman". If she used the word "female" instead, I would have related to it.

I agree. I don't know what a "woman" feels like, but I certainly don't identify as male. I would tell you I have female sensibilities, and feel more comfortable with traditionally feminine things. I like being domestic, and I love kids.  I would rather go to a flower show than a gun show.  I love clothes and makeup and jewelry. I hate body hair.  I don't like confrontation or aggressive people.  I'm just not a very good guy.

Quote from: KathyLauren on October 19, 2015, 06:43:13 AM
The classical "woman trapped in a man's body" myth is only one of many ways that ->-bleeped-<- can present itself.
I have never felt particularly male or female.  I'm just me.  I wish I were a woman, but I don't "feel like" one because I have no idea how that feels. 

For the longest time I felt I was wasn't transgender because I never "felt like I was a girl when I was 4 years old", or whatever.  I had no idea about boy/girl stuff at 4 years old.  When I was a little older, about 6 or 7, I really began to notice that girls were very different, and it was like "I want what she's having", lol.  But I didn't think I was a girl.  That was the problem: I knew I wasn't a girl, and it made me extremely unhappy.

Quote from: orangejuice on October 18, 2015, 09:56:04 AM
I cross-dressed secretly from as young as I can remember. But I never hated being a boy. I dreamt of being a girl...
I know that if I could snap my fingers and be a cis female it would feel fine, and like a massive relief.

God yes.  Being trans sucks.

Quote from: AnamethatstartswithE on October 19, 2015, 04:18:11 PM
When I'm in boy mode I wonder if it's real at all, and if I'm just psyching myself into this when I really don't want it deep down. Whereas when I'm in girl mode I feel certain that I want to be a girl.

This is a very strange way to live.

More beautiful quotes.  I feel the same way.

Thanks so much to all of you for contributing.  For today, at least, I feel slightly less screwed up.

With kindness,

Terri

FWIW, I think a lot of what you feel about your gender as a small child depends on what your experience of gender was as a child.

I never considered myself to be a girl, either.  But when I went back and looked at things, I realized that I had no idea what a girl was until I started kindergarten, because my parents raised me in almost complete isolation, with only my younger brother for company.

I remember my dad taking me to the beach when I was five, and seeing women in bikinis, and thinking "that's what I want to be."  Before then there was no gender, I was just me.

I told mom and dad I wanted to be a girl when I was seven, after a male friend's parents got him a toy kitchen set (very progressive parents for the early 1970's).  I got quite the lecture at that point about what boys were and what girls were, and what was expected of me.

So to me, ever since, being a boy, and then a man, it was like I was doing a job -- except the only time I ever got to clock out for some break time were the rare times I could crossdress without discovery or punishment, or sneak looks into the girls section of the Sears catalog.

There is no standard narrative.  We are who we are.  I got my first wig a few days ago, and today for the first time I had enough time to fully dress, and get the wig on, combed, brushed and adjusted.  No time to do makeup, but still:

The one thing I know is that I love the girl who was looking back at me in the mirror.  And that is enough.