Quote from: ell on December 16, 2007, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on December 16, 2007, 02:20:08 PM
Re: Myths in our community that need to die a quick death

.....how about the 'our community' myth. I live in my own community and town in the U.K and although it's very nice to chat to folk in another country and exchange views on - line about TS issue's, but I'm not actually part of any transgendered community in the U.K or the U.S. I'm just me and I just do ordinary things like go to the pub or go to a concert. I'm a just part of the everyday community......

if you're transitioning, you need Trans clubs, imho. trans clubs offer tremendous support and relief by seeing you in your correct gender, and by allowing a safe space to socialize with other peeps like yourself. also they offer helpful advice on make-up, clothes hair, etc., etc., also they help by giving you exposure to men while being totally dressed and girly. also they give you a safe space to girl-dance your head off without being harassed by gay men, as they sometimes do at the GLBT clubs.

so, if a community is a group of people that pull together and help one another in need and provide understanding and moral support, how is that not a community? for that matter, how is Susan's not a community? as one who started out from zero earlier this year, this site has helped me more than i can tell you. so, because i am terribly loyal, like a dog, i love this place. yes, i have made mistakes and offended some people here, but honestly, it wasn't done out of malice. it's just that sometimes i speak without thinking, and before i know it, the words have been said. then, what can be done? even if you take it back, people already what's in your heart. 

-ell

I disagree...

If you are transsexual and are in the process of transitioning you go out and meet real people in real situations, not hide away in a false sense of security in a ->-bleeped-<- club or a gay club. That is NOT the real life test or any other test ('Harry Benjamin Standards Of Care'). Go to a normal hetrosexual pub instead......you will soon find out how well your doing.....I've never been anywhere to show me how to apply make up, or how to wear my own clothes, for me it was totally instinctive from an early age.

I cannot relate to what you are saying at all........

Quote from: Berliegh on December 16, 2007, 05:24:41 PM
I disagree...

If you are transsexual and are in the process of transitioning you go out and meet real people in real situations, not hide away in a false sense of security in a ->-bleeped-<- club or a gay club. That is NOT the real life test or any other test. Go to a normal hetrosexual pub instead......you will soon find out how well your doing.....I've never been anywhere to show me how to apply make up, or how to wear my own clothes, for me it was totally instinctive from an early age.

I cannot relate to what you are saying at all........

oh. sorry.

i guess i thought Trans people were real people.

and anyway, even if they're not, i love them. they are so sweet. i've never had much fun hanging with "real" people. in my experience, they're very judgmental, often rude, seldom understanding.

-ell 

Quote from: ell on December 16, 2007, 05:37:05 PM
oh. sorry.

i guess i thought Trans people were real people.

and anyway, even if they're not, i love them. they are so sweet. i've never had much fun hanging with "real" people. in my experience, they're very judgmental, often rude, seldom understanding.

-ell 

We are obviouisly seeing this from two totally differerent angles........yes agreed, real people are judgemental which is the whole point of the excercise. No one will judge you at a ->-bleeped-<- club but they might say you look wonderful. A person in an everyday environment will tell you what they really think and possibly be far more acurate. I think it's more beneficial to live a 'Real life test' than coocoon yourself in a false sense of security with 'nice' people...

Quote from: ell on December 16, 2007, 05:58:02 PM
if you're trying to beat me down for something, just beat me down, would you? and stop generalizing about other Trans people and speaking about them as if they were somehow inferior. They're not! and i'm deeply offended by you calling clubs i go to as "->-bleeped-<- clubs'. how rude! as i said, feel free to offend me all you want, but don't you dare say anything about the Trans people i hang with. You don't know them! now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to an FTM party that has invited MTF's, and i can't wait!!! yes, it is my idea of fun. see you.

Not all all Ell. I was trying to make you understand that it's better to have a real life experience and go out properly rather than go somewhere like the safe haven of a transgendered club. How are you going experience real life if you continue to go to safe havens.

I don't know what your goal is in life?....From my own perpective am a transsexual woman and I live as a woman and go out in everyday situations which includes normal bars and concerts. I have no desire to go to transgendered clubs or gay bars and I'm happy with my life this way.

Keep it civil.

Steph

In Montreal there is a trans community, but I've never
felt the urge to go there pre or post hrt,
I went to a normal club 4 months into HRT
and I was in a tank a skirt, went to dozens
of party functions since then.

Some TS feel the need to be around people like them, others don't.
Its a personal preference that nobody should judge on one side
or the other. None is really "better".

Though from an integration
point of view, I do agree that many TS use such clubs
as a security blanket. Whatever works for them I guess.
They say, I prefer going to these clubs because my
friends are there, but when I suggest heading
to very trendy electronica clubs a few blocks away
(gay and TS clubs are just 5-6 blocks from the main
club district in Montreal), they balk completely

Quote from: Keira on December 17, 2007, 03:21:34 AM

Some TS feel the need to be around people like them, others don't.
Its a personal preference that nobody should judge on one side
or the other. None is really "better".

Though from an integration
point of view, I do agree that many TS use such clubs
as a security blanket. Whatever works for them I guess.

My point exactely.....thank you Keira for presenting it in a better format...

Quote from: Yvonne on December 15, 2007, 02:46:02 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on December 15, 2007, 02:18:35 PM
Myth: All transsexual people fully consciously realize they're the other gender in early childhood and articulate it openly. If you didn't speak out about it when you were 3 years old, you can't be transsexual.

I dont think these peeps are "not" transsexual.  They just realise their condtion at a much later time.  But the opposite is true too.  There are many trans peeps that realise their condition (maybe not in scientific terms) when they are three years old.

Very well said Yvonne.  I am one of those women who knew her true gender at age three.  I didn't know what "transsexual" meant then, of course, but I knew I was a girl & I expressed it to my mom at that age.  I dare anyone tell me that this can't be, I will eat you alive!  >

Okay more myths:

* Dilation is NOT a lifetime routine.
* Post-op women CAN'T experience orgasms. 
* Sexual preference changes after SRS.
* Transsexual women who identify as straight have SRS so that they can have more boyfriends.
* Transsexualism is a phase
* Transsexual people do not make good parents
* Transsexual people can't/don't have children
* Transsexual parents stigmatize their children
* A neo-vagina can easily be detected by a gynecologist



tink

I knew of my being a girl VERY early too...  but its certainly no marker...
and im straight, i want srs/grs/chopjob simply to feel complete in myself. NOT for more boyfriends, it CERTAINLY wouldnt be a bad thing, as most guys seem to hate the idea of thier girlfriend having a penis...
R

Off topic a second: I very much enjoy the term, neo-vagina. It sounds so classically designed.

Or a chrome entrance way to a grand building.

This is off topic too.

I am seriously considering ignoring all users who use the term "peeps".
No joking or kidding.
I've never used the button before, however, there are times when a person must do what is right above doing what is polite.



Rebis

Well here are a few:

- Transsexual people cannot be trusted to work with children.
- Transsexual people are just not spiritual enough.
- Transsexual people share the same social problems as the gay and lesbian communities.
- Transsexual women are just boys pretending to be girls.
- It's all about sex.
- Some transsexuals can just never pass.
- Transsexualism can be linked to some trauma in early life.


Kristi

I just thought of one more.

M2F trans are all 250 lb linebackers who are doing this so they can go into the cheerleader's locker room

y2g

Posted on: December 17, 2007, 10:18:49 PM

---

Quote from: Rebis on December 17, 2007, 09:21:27 PM
I am seriously considering ignoring all users who use the term "peeps".

Rebis,

I feel your pain about this. Perhaps all who use the term should simply be banished to the seventh layer of purgatory >

y2g

Ell,
I thought my post was balanced, not even referencing you?
I'm not throwing people in hell because they don't go to non TS clubs,
just wish people would be honest. My friends didn't want to
admit to themselves that they were afraid of going into the big bad world
and had all sort of reasons why they preferred more alternative clubs.
The crazy things is she looked fantastic; I couldn't understand why
she needed the security blanket.

BTW, I've gone plenty of time pre transition in those clubs just because
they' were often some of the coolest. That was especiallly the case
in the late 80's, early 90;s But, these days seemingly are gone. The best
clubs are elsewhere, so that's where I go; I use (who's the best?) to
direct which club I go to instead of it being gay, straight or whatever.

Quote from: Keira on December 17, 2007, 10:44:45 PM
Ell,
I thought my post was balanced, not even referencing you?

except for the cheap shot about the security blanket.

QuoteI'm not throwing people in hell because they don't go to non TS clubs,
just wish people would be honest.

how is that not a pointed attack? it's not really your concern where i go, and is it your business to judge how i proceed on my transition as dishonest? is that your job here on the boards?

QuoteMy friends didn't want to
admit to themselves that they were afraid of going into the big bad world

i think i should go at my own speed, whether you insult me about it or not.

but i will take back what i said about this site being helpful. sometimes it's just plain rude, rather than helpful.

Ladies, ladies, please.

Some ladies choose to hang in non-TG associated clubs, others prefer to hang with other TGs.
There is nothing wrong with either choice.
The desire to hang with peeps possessing a common background is as old as time. And certainly not unique to TGs.
Let's also keep in mind that other ladies here may not be at the same point in transition as you are. All beginning transitioners need the support of other TS.
Let's respect others' choices in their social circle.

,
maybe you can backanalyse what I said,
because I can't see where I went wrong on that one.
Sent me to sensitivity training if I need it... 

Keira is befuddled, but its a normal state for her...

Quote from: Katia on December 11, 2007, 06:11:40 PM
-male-to-female transsexuals have been socialized as men, and this socialization cannot be changed
-male-to-female transsexuals have been raised as boys, have never been oppressed as women, and cannot understand women's oppression
-male-to-female transsexuals are trying to take over the lesbian community

I agree completely.  These are the most dangerous myths, since they attack the human privilege to define oneself and attach oneself to a peer group.  The idea that socialization in one sex prevents one from empathizing or understanding the other sex's oppression is ridiculous.  For some transsexuals, they can have the "perfect" body, voice, clothes, etc., and yet on this basis of socialization there are people who think that they can limit transpeople's claim to the sex to which they should belong.  I can't think of much worse in violation of human rights, than to deny one's self-identification.  It blows my mind how some feminists can treat transpeople so badly and deny them entry into "womyn-born-womyn" space just because of their different experiences, as if there were one monolithic experience of womanhood!

Quote from: Tink on December 17, 2007, 06:29:42 PM

Quote from: Yvonne on December 15, 2007, 02:46:02 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on December 15, 2007, 02:18:35 PM
Myth: All transsexual people fully consciously realize they're the other gender in early childhood and articulate it openly. If you didn't speak out about it when you were 3 years old, you can't be transsexual.

I dont think these peeps are "not" transsexual.  They just realise their condtion at a much later time.  But the opposite is true too.  There are many trans peeps that realise their condition (maybe not in scientific terms) when they are three years old.

Very well said Yvonne.  I am one of those women who knew her true gender at age three.  I didn't know what "transsexual" meant then, of course, but I knew I was a girl & I expressed it to my mom at that age.  I dare anyone tell me that this can't be, I will eat you alive!  >

You're both misreading the intent of what I posted. Note the little word "All" at the beginning of my sentence. A statement in the form of "All X are Y" is called a categorical statement, which can easily become a falsehood if not applied carefully. Human beings are so diverse that usually you can't say "All X are Y" about people, there are bound to be exceptions... which was my point. I didn't mean to say "No 3-year-olds can know they're trans." That would be another categorical statement about people, and would be just as wrong.

I just meant that because some do, it doesn't follow that we all have to... but there is that false categorical assumption about us out there.



Posted on: December 18, 2007, 02:34:18 AM

---

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on December 17, 2007, 08:09:54 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 17, 2007, 07:33:12 PM
Off topic a second: I very much enjoy the term, neo-vagina. It sounds so classically designed.

sounds very matrix like.

you are the one, neo.  lol

I'm going to request a neon vagina. It would be so cool to have bioluminescence.