Quote from: Ms Grace on December 05, 2015, 01:50:34 AM
Turns out I had a massive load of internalised transphobia and never realised it - as soon as I let it go I felt so much better about myself.

I totally get the "I'm not girly, more tomboy" thing. That was my reasoning too. Turns out that once I was able to fully explore and inhabit my gender identity I was a fair bit more femme than I realised. Sure I like wearing jeans and (mostly) sensible shoes but I have been able express myself as the woman I am, and sometimes that means a very girly dress!! What a relief.

Being in our assigned gender role means were always evaluating our wants and needs about our gender identity through that prism and it can be very distorted. It isn't until you feel free and safe enough to work through your identified gender and persona that you really get a sense of just how much of a "tom boy", or not, you really are.

This totally for me too. I used my dress as a "tomboy" and identity as "sort of girly though" as a protection. One way to keep a foot in both places. I believe for me, it was residual transphobia and fear. When i accepted that i was both transitioning and there are times i want to wear a dress as an example, it changed. I just need to embrace my feminine fully.

I also stopped accepting the blame for my life. Responsibility for my choices good and bad but not blame. A lot TG women who come out to their spouses feel a sense of guilt, like i knew this all along and got you to marry me. I never did feel that way. I had no way of understanding all of this at age 20, zero. I'm not to be blamed for setting my life right, perhaps i was dense and it took a bit long, but that is it. (ok i am dense not perhaps)

Sorry for the delay in replying. I write my reply while at work and must have gotten distracted and forgot to click on the Send button! [emoji846]

Joanne, Deborah and RobynD, thank you all for being so open and honest.

I feel a great deal of guilt. I came out to my wife after being married 14 years. I don't believe I was lying to her for those 14 years. I simply didn't know. Now with hindsight I am starting to remember things that should have been clues but at the time I was oblivious to the fact that I may be trans.

I always felt a great deal of shame if I ever crossdressed and promised myself it was the last time and it would be a shameful secret I would take with me to the grave. It was a promise I could never keep. No matter how hard I tried, there would always come a time where the desire/need to feel like a female was much stronger than my ability to resist. That made me feel weak in character, giving in to something so "terrible" and "shameful". They are the kind of thoughts that cycled through my head.

Deborah, I too credit my wife with saving my life in similar ways. Had she not been so accepting, I suspect I would have allowed myself to be consumed by my depression and subsequently ending it all. If I ever feel depressed, thinking of my wife snaps me out of it. I love her more than I could ever hope to express with words. She sacrificed so much for me, leaving her family, friends, job, everything behind on the other side of the world to come be with me. And now I selfishly dropped this bomb on her and she is still by my side. I am so terrified that I am pushing her limits of self sacrifice and end up losing her. Why is it that I am unable to self sacrifice just a bit and put Jayne on a leash, or better yet into a teeny tiny little box???

I seem to have unintentionally drifted off into a depressive mood. She loves ME. And that includes Jayne! I wouldn't be me without the Jayne part. Jayne has always been inside there somewhere. Sorry, I'm just convincing myself that it is ok to be me!

I actually had a pretty good day today. I was Jayne at home before leaving for work in the afternoon. I felt kind of good about myself. I think the trick is to just enjoy life without thinking too much. Soon as I start thinking, that's when things go downhill. Too much thinking can be bad for your health!

Enough ranting now. Thank you all so much for your great comments. They are very helpful.

Jayne

Jayne
I see it's gone from J? To J to Jayne. Good job- accept YOU. joanne, you are one neat lady. Thank you for your honesty, I know it is probably an all too familiar theme.
Jayne, I can only offer my experience. I have know, as you, that I liked CDing since a child, but thought it would go away. Didn't know the condition as TG till college (93-97) but always knew it was more than clothing attraction.
I'm a musician in a country band, coworkers are oil riggers. Mostly Happily married for 15, 2 year old son that I love more than life itself, came out last week to her.
I feel so much better now that I can accept it. Doesn't mean I'm gonna be Katie tomorrow, nor I imagine,  ever FT. But, I can OWN the "quirks" I used to justified as fetishes...
Hose, panties, my wife has always known but explained away as my thing... Even though she knew, I was still hiding in my mind. Never wore a bra in front of her, because that would've "been weird." 
But now that I've finally, after thirty years of denying/questioning/hating my trans ness, accepted it, I have changed my thought process to say, Ok, this is what's going on, let's figure out where to go from here." Rather than hide a basic ingredient of me from my wife.
You sound like a good hubby and I bet there's a sweet lady in there too. Embrace her slowly and gently.  Wanna shave your legs? Try it! It's winter, and no one will notice but you. Wear an unlined/ sports bra under your shirt, but not in fear. See how you feel.
Obviously we all have things that do it for us, maybe underdressing, maybe CD in private, maybe CD in public. Embrace it.
Katie
I'm trying to get my wife to see that I'm still me, and that me has a female part.

Hi Katie,

Thanks for the reply. I'm learning to accept me as I am without being mean myself and think I'm "weird" or somehow sick in the head. I still have to work at it a bit, but it's so much better now that I'm trying to be kind to all parts of me.

I've been shaving my legs off and on for a few months now. It's summer here in Australia, and I wear shorts. No one has said anything, but if they do I will probably find myself justifying it as being a cyclist.

J? / J / Jayne

Hello,

I find myself going round in circles. My wife and just got back from a holiday in Fiji. The holiday was awesome. Lots of doing nothing in paradise with my beautiful wife. The whole time we were away the dysphoria was barely there. It was still kind of in the background but it wasn't bothering me. Except for one night where I woke up at 1am from a nightmare (gender related) and it took me over an hour to get back to sleep. The next morning I was a bit unsettled but pulled myself together by late morning.

We returned home 2 nights ago and yesterday the dysphoria returned quite strongly and stayed with me for most of the day. Today it is still there but only slightly in the background, and I am feeling very ashamed and angry with myself. How is it that I was pretty much ok while away on a holiday and soon as I get home my mind goes nuts again?

I'm ashamed and angry at myself for thinking I'm a girl and upset that it is preventing me from doing things. My wife is at work today and there are some things I could do at home (hobby type stuff not chores) but I'm stuck in this rut of thinking about gender stuff. I hate this so much. I waste so much time thinking about this stuff rather than just living and enjoying life. I have this dress that my wife helped me buy a few weeks ago, I just want to burn it and throw it away now. I feel so ashamed of myself.

I am so confused with what is happening in my head. Sometimes it seems so clear that yes I am trans and I'm ok with it and feel happy. Then there are other times when I'm happy being the guy I was born which in turn makes me ashamed and upset that I ever had any trans thoughts/feelings. It's a vicious cycle that never ends. So right now I'm feeling like John and Jayne is just a horrible memory that I want to forget.

Anyway, that's my rant for today. I have no doubt that Jayne will work her way back into my head to drive me crazy soon enough.

John

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 19, 2015, 04:00:37 PM
Hello,

I find myself going round in circles. My wife and just got back from a holiday in Fiji. The holiday was awesome. Lots of doing nothing in paradise with my beautiful wife. The whole time we were away the dysphoria was barely there. It was still kind of in the background but it wasn't bothering me. Except for one night where I woke up at 1am from a nightmare (gender related) and it took me over an hour to get back to sleep. The next morning I was a bit unsettled but pulled myself together by late morning.

We returned home 2 nights ago and yesterday the dysphoria returned quite strongly and stayed with me for most of the day. Today it is still there but only slightly in the background, and I am feeling very ashamed and angry with myself. How is it that I was pretty much ok while away on a holiday and soon as I get home my mind goes nuts again?

I'm ashamed and angry at myself for thinking I'm a girl and upset that it is preventing me from doing things. My wife is at work today and there are some things I could do at home (hobby type stuff not chores) but I'm stuck in this rut of thinking about gender stuff. I hate this so much. I waste so much time thinking about this stuff rather than just living and enjoying life. I have this dress that my wife helped me buy a few weeks ago, I just want to burn it and throw it away now. I feel so ashamed of myself.

I am so confused with what is happening in my head. Sometimes it seems so clear that yes I am trans and I'm ok with it and feel happy. Then there are other times when I'm happy being the guy I was born which in turn makes me ashamed and upset that I ever had any trans thoughts/feelings. It's a vicious cycle that never ends. So right now I'm feeling like John and Jayne is just a horrible memory that I want to forget.

Anyway, that's my rant for today. I have no doubt that Jayne will work her way back into my head to drive me crazy soon enough.

John

Hi john:)
I obviously am no good at being able to say I know what you're feeling as I don't. But because I'm still living in the same house as Chris/Chrissy I see him/her go through times like this to. Although Chrissy seems to be around allot more then Chris.

I'm thinking about you, and still following your post:)

Marie



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Significant other
Heterosexual woman

Hey John,

I know exactly what you are feeling and how this flip flopping feels. It really leaves you feeling confused and uncertain about it all.  I hope you can soon find some peace in it all.  :-)


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If it feels wrong to you being trans, then maybe you are not trans, but perhaps gender fluid, maybe bi-gender etc? there are many levels to the spectrum

Diversions, Distractions, and some Denial had helped me for decades to ignore or stuff the GD. Holidays away from home provide 2 of the 3D's and the third one is free. Back home to the same ole same and..... same ole same ole GD rears it's ugly head.

When I took the trans-beast on for real 6 years ago I had a new job some 350 miles from home. My wife and I had a long distance (very tenuous) marriage. When our prayers were answered and I got a dream job back with an old boss back home my #1 greatest fear what going back to "Normal" do to me. Perhaps like a criminal finally let out from prison going back to the old neighborhood, hanging with his old friends. And......

And my GD does rear its ugly head. Even 2 plus years later. I fight to retain the gains I made. My fear of 'Reverting' fuels the GD. A painful reminder of...

I know what does not work

Hello again,

Thank you for your replies. Two hours ago I posted here as John feeling very confused and ashamed of myself. I went in my "hobby" room and started fiddling with an old android tablet I use only for reading books. The on/off button stopped working, so I decided to fix it. Anyway, that distracted me from my thoughts for a while and now I'm feeling a bit more at peace with myself. And it turns out Jayne is still part of me. I don't know why I feel ashamed to be me. Maybe it's some built in transphobia that makes me want to resist being me. I notice that I'm happier when I accept that Jayne is part of who I am. I don't know how much of me is Jayne and how much is John. But Jayne is definitely in there somewhere. Is it possible to be happy having both a male and female side at the same time? How do you make something like that work?

Jayne

You have to come to the understanding that Jayne=John.  There are not two parts, only one.

Now, because of stigma you may have built an Avatar as an outward self defense.  I know I did.  Deconstructing that avatar and rediscovering yourself is your task.  I find this song by Engima expresses the entire experience very well.

Return to Innocence
By Enigma

That's not the beginning of the end
That's the return to yourself
The return to innocence.

Love
Devotion
Feeling
Emotion

Don't be afraid to be weak
Don't be too proud to be strong
Just look into your heart my friend
That will be the return to yourself
The return to innocence.

If you want, then start to laugh
If you must, then start to cry
Be yourself don't hide
Just believe in destiny.

Don't care what people say
Just follow your own way
Don't give up and use the chance
To return to innocence.

That's not the beginning of the end
That's the return to yourself
The return to innocence.

Don't care what people say
Follow just your own way
Follow just your own way
Don't give up, don't give up
To return, to return to innocence.

If you want then laugh
If you must then cry
Be yourself don't hide
Just believe in destiny.


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Quote from: Jayne01 on December 19, 2015, 06:30:39 PMIs it possible to be happy having both a male and female side at the same time? How do you make something like that work?

I can give an unequivocal YES, I think because I came to the conclusion 6 years ago I Needed to figure out how to get Joanne and John to peacefully coexist inside one healthier and hopefully happier ME.

Perhaps some of my confusion comes from I kind of stopped thinking in binary terms as Male or Female. Since I was like 4-5 years old I wished I was a girl. My true inner self is female. To that I have no doubt, and never did doubt. Only denied or otherwise kept locked away in her dungeon. The male outer shell is what I needed to be to survive in the world and time I grew up in. I adapted to those needs becoming a cameleon of sorts able to move withing different "Guy" worlds. Several of those worlds I found joy in. I had raw talent and abilities in. I found a place I can find some peace while fighting the internal battle.

Some aspects of that male shell and for sure the world I created and live in are very real parts of me. I am too painfully aware of the effect of loosing being the respected hero engineer will do to me. Struggle many days with what loosing my wife will do to me. They are very real parts of me, my core essence, just as much, if not more so (today) then being female is.

Both of my therapists asked me this same question; "What would be different if Joanne showed up to work tomorrow?". My answer today is no different then the one I gave several years ago. "Nothing"  Sure a few dropped jaws since the presentation is about 180 degrees out as one can get. But where it counts, on the inside, not really much besides perhaps a (temporary) 20% boost to almost total Authenticity. ( I unfairly, to me, put others feelings/perceptions into the mix ) That 'Boost' may eventually cost me in other key aspects.

Thankfully, today, I am able to live in such a world. Most days I see Joanne smiling back from the mirror at me, no matter what my presentation is. The sad old man does make appearances. Often because of some perverse sense of self hatred fueled by shame and guilt I summon him up. Or is a need for a "Reality Check"? If he wins then all this trans stuff was 'just a phase' and I can put it all behind me and go back to being 'Normal"?

I am really really glad he hasn't won the staring contest. I never want to be that sort of "Normal" again. To that I have no doubt that one key stretch of highway with a downhill ramp long enough to reach a good 90 MPH before the nearly perpendicular concrete barrier to which my vehicle and it will become one, will be a reality also.

Thanks Joanne. You and I seem similar in some ways. I'm not sure I knew I wanted to be a girl since 4-5, but I do have some sketchy early memories of thinking myself as female. I am an engineer and very good at my job. I'm afraid that would all go away if I became a girl. I also cannot imagine a reality without my wife with me, so I cannot possibly do anything to risk losing her. Besides, when the dysphoria is not screwing my mind, I don't mind being a guy. I've grown up as a guy and lived my life as a guy. It's what I know.

If I allow myself to accept Jayne is part of who I am, my days go by OK, but if I try and forget about the Jayne part and pretend she isn't there, then that is when I fall apart. At first it's ok, I think I can do this, it's was just some stupid phase, but then the internal conflict starts tearing me apart. I find that I can make it easier for myself to accept if I tell myself that this is just like having an inoperable brain tumour or something similar. I don't like it, I don't want it but there is nothing I can do about it. So I may as well learn to live with it. I don't know if comparing being trans to a brain tumour is a good way to look at it, but it's the only way I seem capable of accepting it. The one thing I know with absolute certainty is that it just plain sucks!! I wish I wasn't this way. I wish I could just be a normal guy living s normal guy life. But if I don't accept myself, the alternative is a place I don't want to go, because it is a very dark scary place.

My therapist keeps telling me I'm normal and there is nothing wrong with me. It sure doesn't feel that way. I feel anything but normal and there is plenty wrong with me. I'm hoping that will change with time. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in therapy.

Thank you again for your detailed reply.

J

Ha.  Three engineers here.  I have an electrical engineering degree but my work involves design of experiments and statistical analysis of results.  Mostly on the periphery these days but once in a while I get to dig back deep into it.


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I'm an aircraft engineer. I work for an airline in maintenance. In Australia we are called engineers. Other parts of the world call us technicians. I like engineer it makes me feel smarter.

:-).  Well as long as you keep my airplane from falling out of the sky then you get to wear the smart tag.


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Deal!