I've gone all over the place on trying to figure myself out, and since I don't want to keep cluttering up the chat with my panicky ranting on the subject I think it would be better to let it all out here.

After going out in public as female for the first time on Saturday, I have since been really confused. I really liked doing that, yet I still cannot seem to feel the kind of dysphoria about being male that everyone else has experienced. And the confusion and doubt about my identity has just continued to build until I can't deal with it anymore.

None of the repeating trends regarding dysphoria seem to hold true for me. Many of you report that you're uncomfortable looking at yourself in photos or mirrors, yet I keep detailed photographic records of most of the things I do to share with family and friends. Although I might wish to see a more feminine me in the mirror (and doing so makes me feel really happy), looking at my naked body doesn't make me particularly uncomfortable. I don't hate my genitals and if I transitioned I would probably stay non-op.

The three things I have felt bad about are all suspect as well. I do not like having body hair and am constantly shaving it off? Well, there are plenty of men who prefer not to have body hair as well. I hated the loss of my soprano voice when I was 14 and want it back? I'm sure plenty of young male singers must feel the same way. I really wish I had breasts? OK, that desire is certainly typical of a trans woman, yet most of my thoughts on that have had a sexual component (particularly my early desires when I was 13) and maybe I just want my own pair so I can play with them.

Pronouns did not bother me until after I started questioning my identity. And yes, I do not like being referred to as he/him while she/her makes me really happy, but again that didn't really happen until I started questioning.

The bottom line is, though I really like the idea of being a woman and enjoy becoming one whenever I can (and not in a sexual sense; it just feels nice), I do not feel really bad about being a man. So I have to wonder why I want to be female. Is it because I think women look sexy and I want to become one myself, perhaps? Or do I like roleplaying different characters so much (I am a gamer) that I want to be someone else for a time? If I really were trans I would actually have serious problems being a man, but I don't.

So the question remains: Why do I want this?

Also, keep in mind that even if the answer is negative and/or offensive, don't let that hold you back from giving it. I only want the truth, no matter how unpleasant it is.

It's best not to compare dysphoria levels, there's nothing to be gained from that. Everyone is different and dysphoria comes in all shapes and sizes.

You have doubts and that's perfectly fine - maybe transition is for you and maybe it isn't. Before you start making decisions though it would be good to clear out some of that confusion by discussing it with your therapist...what would you gain, what would you lose, who do you want to be, how do you want to live your life, how would you rather others saw you?

Quote from: Ms Grace on December 24, 2015, 02:42:23 PM
It's best not to compare dysphoria levels, there's nothing to be gained from that. Everyone is different and dysphoria comes in all shapes and sizes.

You have doubts and that's perfectly fine - maybe transition is for you and maybe it isn't. Before you start making decisions though it would be good to clear out some of that confusion by discussing it with your therapist...what would you gain, what would you lose, who do you want to be, how do you want to live your life, how would you rather others saw you?

What she said!

Especially "...what would you gain, what would you lose, who do you want to be, how do you want to live your life, how would you rather others saw you?" 

BALANCE  What is truly important to you Today, keeping in mind the answer can, and is allowed to change in the future

You problem is that you read "the standard narrative".  It doesn't really hold true for lots of us.  I believe there are many reasons including upbringing, situation, and individual personality characteristics.

I never hated my body either.  In fact it was a really fine body.  It just wasn't the right one.  Nevertheless, because I was stuck with it I made the best of it that I could.  And the mirror didn't really bother me either except for those few times I let myself go and grew a belly.  That bothered me.

Pronouns didn't bother me really either.  I think it would have been really stupid if I had let them.  I mean what would you expect people to say when you're  six feet tall in a muscular body and a short haircut.

I knew I was trans at age 11 but coped really well with it all for a really long time.  I think it was because of sheer force of will and the fact that I was successful and living a life of adventure and constant newness.  Eventually though it fell apart.  It's like a pressure cooker.  If it stays closed for a long long time it explodes.  When my before sleep prayer started asking that I die before morning it was time to do something about it.

Being trans mtf simply means that your gender identity, what's in your head, is female.  Science is finding that their are certain areas of the brain that differentiate us towards this identity.  Beyond that, being trans says absolutely nothing about anything else.  We are all still individuals with different personalities, different abilities. and different life experiences that combine to make us who we are.  We are not clones of each other.

So, all you need to figure out is what are you in your head.  That is where your identity lies. 


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IMO wanting to be female was not the issue. For over 50 yrs. my brain had been giving me undeniable feelings and signals telling me to experience my femininity. Although I dealt with these issues in a "stealth mode" the inability to fully experience my feminine self resulted in tremendous amounts of emotional pain that I carried with me since before puberty. I made some changes in my lifestyle that required me to grow emotionally.  A major part of that growth demanded self acceptance and honesty.  It was at this point in my life that I released my femininity to grow and become the person that I am today.  Having finally jettisoned that emotional pain, my life is so much better and it improves every day. I am much more comfortable in my female role today than I ever was as a male.  I don't have the capacity to feel like a man and I guess I never realized that until late in life. The way my brain developed that possibility was not in play for me.  I just didn't know it.  The signs were always there, but I was not mature enough or brave enough to accept it.  I'm in the right place now.  Just remember, our gender identities exit on a spectrum.  We are all unique and beautiful beings.  When you find your comfort zone, don't allow others to pass judgment on you. The courage to be you may come quickly or slowly. It will strengthen you and slay the inner monsters.       

I know you have been reading the thread where I was dealing with somebody who was Bigendered. That is an example much we can vary in the way the TG feeling expresses it's self. I didn't really have discomfort with my body but my life was all wrong. I just didn't fit into life as a male but I fit well as a female. It was a bit of a surprise when I first joined Susan's because I had never heard of body dysphoria and many people were discussing the subject. I came to understand it pretty quickly when the FTMs discussed their discomfort over their breast.

You appear from your profile to be non binary where I was clearly transsexual. I needed surgery to be complete and as you are still in the discovery stage, only you can say what will make you happy in life. It is clear to me that you are transgender and you are not making this up. Just let us know where you need to be in life and we will help you get there.

Your experience is not at all unusual.  My experience is very similar, and I have met other members here with similar narratives.

I do not hate my male body.  I just wish I was a woman.  When I am in guy mode, I feel blah - I don't feel much of anything.  When I dress femme, I feel good.  The biggest trigger for my gender dysphoria is clothing.  My wife and I sometimes go to a used clothing store.  I see all the nice women's clothes that I can't have, and all the gray, anonymous crap that is available on the men's racks, and it really bums me out.

There are many ways of being transbender.  There isn't a single narrative that fits us all.  But your is probably more typical than you think.

The degree or extent of transition is up to you.  As long as you are not hurting someone, go as far as is necessary for you to be you.  Male always?  Super.  Occasional cross dressing? Fine.  A little androgenous? Great.  Male sometime, female sometimes? totally good.  Non-op? works super.  Transexual?  Fine.  Anywhere in between works.

Be YOU!!
Hugs

Jen

The problem with thinking of myself as non-binary is that I've thought in the past that I might like to be able to switch sexes at will depending on the situation. Yet when I actually think about it, I can't really see a lot of situations where I'd willingly be male. Every time I do, it's invariably tied to social or cultural factors, and if those were gone and I could choose whatever form I wanted, I still find myself thinking of choosing female. This has been largely confirmed when you consider my crossdressing habits; I will gladly switch from male to female given the chance, but as yet I have never switched back to male of my own free will. It always required an outside factor (have to go to work, have to interact with family, etc.) to make me change back. However, at the same time when I think of an ideal form for myself, I still picture my genitals as being the same somehow even with everything else different.

Problem is, even though my ideal self might be more or less female (though technically such a form may be better thought of as non-binary, come to think of it), my desire to be that way just doesn't seem to be anywhere near as strong as most trans people I've met. I suppose it's possible that I might be one of those late-transitioners where I could deal with it now, but the desire eventually builds until I'm 57 and can't handle it anymore; however, if I really am trans I feel like it would be much better to do it now than wait until most of my life is already behind me. Yet if I don't have an overwhelming desire now, why do it at all?

Quote from: Jamie_06 on December 24, 2015, 03:34:40 PM
Yet if I don't have an overwhelming desire now, why do it at all?

Well, trans is a thing but there is still a life to live.  You sound a lot like me at your age.  If you don't feel a driving need right now and you are happy then live your life.  That is really the most important thing of all.  Things will become clear in time.  And if you need to do something about it later then do it then.  If up to that time you have lived life up to its potential then absolutely nothing is wasted.

There really is only one potential pitfall.  And that is if you get married, bury and hide this, and then find out later you can't hide it any longer.  Sometimes marriages survive that, sometimes they don't.  So, if you wait and at some point do get married you should consider being open about it from the start.  This could save you a lot of heartbreak later.


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Don't judge your needs by the needs of others. The transition is for you and has to be constructed to fill your needs. You may feel two things, a draw to becoming female and a discomfort in being male. If you aren't comfortable being male, that's sufficient reason to consider changing your life.

There is nothing wrong with living as a woman without surgery. We have a number of members who live comfortable lives that way. You don't have to save massive amounts of money, no pain or recovery time, no dilation for something you aren't going to use and no UTIs .

You may also change your mind as time goes on. As I said you are early in exploring the role and as you spend more time in the feminine role you may feel far more comfortable in the feminine role than the masculine role. Give it time and see where your true feeling are.

Go until you find you.  But also look at the cost of getting there.  A transition even to non-op is difficult and expensive.  There are also social acceptance problems.  I don't know many who transitioned because they wanted to, I know a lot that transitioned because they had to.  Where are you at?

Off subject a little but relevant.  I'm 53 and have been full-time for a year and a half.  My time as a man was not waisted.  I helped raise a family.  I supported my mother.  I finished my PhD.  I got set for a good retirement.  I married a wonderful woman who is still with me.  I built a life that was wonderful but incomplete.  It is complete now
It was a journey, it was my journey. I would have liked to have been fully me earlier.  But I would have missed so much.  If I could go back I don't know what I would do.  I do know that it was time for me to transition when I  did.  I have lived a life well with the cards I was dealt.  Could have been better, could have been way worse.  It was not a waste.  It was human.

Hugs

Jen


Is the desire getting stronger as you get older? 

Quote from: JLT1 on December 24, 2015, 04:02:17 PM
Go until you find you.  But also look at the cost of getting there.  A transition even to non-op is difficult and expensive.  There are also social acceptance problems.  I don't know many who transitioned because they wanted to, I know a lot that transitioned because they had to.  Where are you at?

Still wondering whether I'm even legitimately trans right now. I feel like I might want to transition, but I'm uncertain.

QuoteIs the desire getting stronger as you get older?

Too early to tell that yet. I had feelings when I was 13/14 and occasionally afterward, but I didn't put it all together and start realizing what it all could mean until just two months ago (which is when and why I joined here).

Quote from: Jamie_06 on December 24, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Still wondering whether I'm even legitimately trans right now. I feel like I might want to transition, but I'm uncertain.

There is no doubt in my mind, you are transgender. What form it takes, I don't know that. You wouldn't be on this site questioning yourself if you weren't transgender.

Jamie, 

Perhaps if you stop worrying and spend that time living.

I knew transition was right for me when I was struggling, much the same as you are.  My third time in public, at a transgender friendly theature, as I was watching the play, I  sat back, relaxed, and settled into me.  Quite unexpected.  No big decision, no real reason.  Just me letting down all guards and finding my core. I have been Jennifer from that moment onwards.

My lady, you are not there.  If it is meant to come, it will.  Until then, LIVE LIFE!  Only if you don't would it be wasted. And only if you do, will it be well lived.

Hugs

Jen

*

Allow me to begin by writing that it was not that I 'wanted' to be female, I AM female.  My identity IS female, my anatomy IS female.

I had body parts that my birthing room doctor declared as 'male' and boy was he wrong; I hated those parts with a passion.  His error caused me to exist as a 'male' when I should have experienced as best a normal up-bringing as female.  His error cost me my years I should have spent as a girl, not a 'boy'.

Once I attained counsellors and therapists as an adult - people denied to me as a child - they continually documented my life-long persistence at my feminine identity.

You will find your identity.

*

Quote from: Jamie_06 on December 24, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Still wondering whether I'm even legitimately trans right now. I feel like I might want to transition, but I'm uncertain...

Ask yourself this hun - do Cisgendered folk ever question their gender?

I mean, if you are born male in sex, and male in gender, what would ever cause you to question whether you were a boy? And conversely, if you're female in sex and gender, what would cause you to question if you're a girl?  Have you ever heard cis folk asking these kinds of questions?  Aside from a brief passing joke one drunken night like "haha, I wonder what I would've been like if I'd been a girl?" "haha, good one Dave!", you know?

Cis folk don't question it in any serious capacity - why would they?  Everything is aligned for them.  They certainly don't spend weeks, months or even years researching this kind of stuff... well, unless maybe they're a gender studies professor lol   But even then it would be for academic interest rather than for themselves.

The fact that you're here asking questions in a serious capacity for the past couple months means at least *something* isn't aligned correctly with your gender.  Sure, you may not be distressed at being male, but are you actively happy with it?  It sounds from what you're saying like you could take it or leave it.  Now, it's possible that you're simply "used to it" so it doesn't seem amazing (i.e. it's just "part of the furniture", so to speak), but the way you talk of your feminine side makes me doubt that you're an outright male.

Here are a few possibilities to consider:

Fem-guy
It sounds like you've kinda considered this already, but I'm putting it here just to get you thinking.  Maybe you are male, but you have a really strong feminine side you need to express. There's a hundred and one ways to do this, but here are a couple of examples for inspiration:




Tomboy (manly girl)
On the flip side, perhaps you're rooted on the female side, but you feel the need to retain some male aspects.  There's a role for this - it called being a tomboy


(yes, that's Michelle Rodriguez, because Michelle Rodriguez is a <Not Permitted> badass! <3 )

Bi-gendered / genderfluid
Of course, while you may occupy a point on the male-female spectrum, it's possible you're something a little less orthodox.  Perhaps you occupy multiple points at once, or maybe you shift around.  An example of how you might present could be something like Conchita Wurst:


...Ok fine! I just wanted an excuse to post Conchita Wurst because she's amazing and I want to have her babies hehe! <3

Hehe, in all seriousness though, "bearded ladies" (for lack of a better term...) are a great example of how you can mix elements of both genders and still look amazing doing it.  In a similar vein, If you do it right, and carry it off with true confidence and really own it, you can totally turn "guy in a dress" from a derogatory slur into an active compliment


Hopefully you get the idea   There's more than just "male" or "female".  There's differing degrees of being male or female, and there's the option to be bits of both / neither / float around as the mood takes you / be some undefined thrid gender etc.  Of course there's one other option - maybe you're simply a male crossdresser.  Ain't nowt wrong with being a crossdresser hun, if that's who you are

Really, my point in all of this is - if you're not happy being male, being female has much appeal to you, but you feel the female box doesn't entirely fit you either, then maybe you would fit as one of the less orthodox options.  Maybe you fit better under one of the labels listed above, maybe you're something that hasn't been listed yet.  Either way, it's something to think about at least

Oh, and here's one last thought - maybe instead of trying to fit with labels, have you thought about making the labels fit you? <3

Mod Edit:Language

Great post Sarah!  Well said and illustrated.

Hugz,

Joi

Fem-guy: I don't really think so. Most of my interests are predominantly "masculine." My desire to be female is more in what physical body makes me feel more comfortable, not in terms of a gender role. I will say this though: In terms of relationships and sex, I am very feminine, but I don't think I am elsewhere

Tomboy: This is what I believe I would be if I transitioned. I would want to have a mostly female body, but my interests in more typically masculine things would not change. Then again, these ties to masculinity could likely be signs that I don't really want this.

Male crossdresser: To me, this is what I dread being. Nothing against crossdressers, but I actually want to see myself (and want others to see me) as a girl when I switch over, not a guy who pretends to be a girl for fun. To me (and not necessarily to someone else, of course), this would just invalidate my feelings. Plus, I only started crossdressing regularly after I started questioning my identity, and there is no sexual arousal involved; it just feels nice.

Genderfluid/genderqueer/non-binary: Potentially, but again every time I dress as female I don't switch back unless some outside force makes me. To be honest, if I had the ability to switch sexes at will and there  was no social pressure for me to be one way or another, I believe I would stay female most of the time. Then again, there are still plenty of male characters I identify with and there's the fact that I only want to go so far medically, so maybe this might fit better.

Of course, this all presumes these are really my thoughts and not my mind's attempt at finding labels/fitting into an identity that I'm not though. I still don't know and can't seem to trust myself to figure out my feelings.

My concern now was whether I'm right in dressing as female and asking others to refer to me as such when I do so. This will help me to sort out my identity the more I do it, but I feel guilty about it since I'm only questioning and may not really be trans. (though I agree, if I've been asking questions on here for two months there's probably something going on with me)

I have had thoughts of wanting to be female since I was really young. I never thought I was one, I don't think, maybe when I was really really young idk, but I always considered myself a guy. I liked mostly guy things, sports, wrestling, video games, stuff like that but the desire to be female was there since grade school. It never went away and really, these thoughts controlled my life.

I did have some of the issues that you mentioned; I hated my voice, body and especially facial hair, my body in general and well, basically myself too..

I had already started trying to change some of those things on my own after doing some research on the web about em before I even knew anything about trans stuff. I read up a ton about it and was like whoa, thats me! There were a lot of similarities but yet at the same time, lots of differences too. After learning that this was a real thing and that there was a way to fix it, I started questioning everything. Was I really trans or was this just a fetish? Was I just trying to find a label for myself and like then trying to find reasons from my past and present that to neatly fit into said label? It took me a year or two of questioning everything before I hit the breaking point, got tired of worrying about labels and worrying about everything, I basically just said screw it, I want this and I'm gonna do it!

If you had told me before then or even like a year ago, there's no way I'd have believed you. Its just kinda unbelievable how much has changed, what has happened since and where I am now.

None of this happened overnight, it was a long, drawn out, step by step process for me. I knew I wanted a female body so I started trying to hrt with therapy. Hated my beard so started laser. Tried to work on my voice but still hate that. Started going out as a girl, then started coming out to peeps, you get the picture.

Just do what makes you feel good, you know? That's all that matters.

About the whole dressing female and pronouns and stuff, I think it's kinda normal to feel uncomfortable, worried about that, I know I was. I had this feeling for a long time that I kinda had to "earn" it, earn she, her, etc, especially with friends and family. I guess I was worried I was being an imposter or actor or something, idk, but it was def weird for awhile. Just bout to start cracking down on it actually so its kinda an ongoing thing; some are good with it, some are not.