Sorry, but I will never like being considered a pervert, even though that's what society says I am.  I like children and care about their well-being, to be called a pervert then excludes you from associating with children under any circumstances.
Being seen as a pervert or diviate is probably the worst insult for me than anything else in the world!   It breaks my heart.   

Quote from: Natasha on December 26, 2007, 03:47:25 AM

Quote from: Rachael on December 25, 2007, 09:53:06 AM
whats better? hiding behind a medical problem you have? or being thought of by random people as a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or pervert?
R

The former.  Yet, why not at least "try" to discard the term transsexual and replace it by woman or man instead?

well yeah, but if you cant, whats better than the actuall label? why are we so SCARED of labels?

Tekla: I love only men, and i belive in monogomy.... bash away.
R

Quote from: Natasha on December 26, 2007, 03:47:25 AM

Quote from: Rachael on December 25, 2007, 09:53:06 AM
whats better? hiding behind a medical problem you have? or being thought of by random people as a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or pervert?
R

The former.  Yet, why not at least "try" to discard the term transsexual and replace it by woman or man instead?

I don't want to be a man or a woman.   I am neither and would prefer a different title such as "transgender" or "gender variant" or "genderqueer" or even "simian apostate", but please do not tell me I am a man or that I am a woman.

You can be a woman.  I have no issue with that.


maybe I can call me a "Noman".  Pronounced like "woman" but meaning not a man/not a woman.


Hoo


Rebis

um, yaknow, correct labels, and mislabeling are two differnet things...
R

I agree with you about the children Buttercup hon. The same year I began my life living full time as Cindy was around the same time that my friend Tracy got ill and she left her three children in my care and it was arranged by Social Services for them to remain with me. They were with me for two years. I was fortunate that it was the same social worker I had for my son, I was also working as a social worker myself in the mental health services branch of SS. My son isn't among us anymore, bless his soul. I loved the people of that little town they turned out to be very supportive and all I can say is may God bless them also.

Not all paces are inhabited by swamp gas fire breathing rednecks who cut their steak with a chainsaw and drink beetlejuice for Java in the morning.

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2007, 09:51:18 PM
Its a bash on anyone who thinks that there is only one way to love, one right kind of person to love, a set number of people you can love, positions that are more or less sinful, actions that are more or less evil, tastes, proclivities, and desires that are more or less normal or strange.  I just want to reclaim pervert from people who would use to to defame and inflame and turn it into a very likable adjective.

would you please explain this? i don't see how you can turn that word into a positive thing. i may enjoy receiving a little pain, but nothing excruciating. i may enjoy being a little submissive, and, you know, some of the fun things that go with that. but nothing terribly demeaning. i don't mind if people refer to me as a little kinky, but still, i would be very hurt and offended if someone called me a pervert. there certainly are particular acts that are more or less evil, i.e., they can cause permanent physical or psychological harm.

-ell

Quote from: Rachael on December 25, 2007, 09:53:06 AM
whats better? hiding behind a medical problem you have? or being thought of by random people as a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or pervert? because they will...
the more people understand TS is medical, the less people with it will need to use it  as a liferaft.
R

Of course if you say it's a medical problem, people are going to think it's just that, a problem.  And try to cure you.  Would rather just have acceptance and not be viewed as anything but myself.  Which in my experience is possible.  I don't see a huge reason to run around telling people I have a medical condition and that something is wrong with me.  Take me for who I am, y'know?  Anyone with half a brain is going to figure there's nothing to worry about with me.

Words that are used, as pervert is, to marginalize people and stigmatize them tend to lose that power when adopted.  Witness "queer" in the TBGL community, or "freak" in the counter-culture.  Many of the people I know in the sex positive community feel the same way about "pervert."  The word intended to attack people can be turned into positive thing, or at the very least, we can take the sting out of it.  And how exactly is this word used?  It is used to define behavior that is not in keeping with the mainstream Christian principals of repression and depravation.

In short, we live in a culture that has a Big Time tendency to demonize sex.  And I strongly feel that there needs to be a slow, gradual shift away from that.  I understand you can't force it on anybody and I do not want to force it on anybody.  But, like many of the people on this board, I have never been good at repressing myself, and I had a hard time, for a long time, accepting that in myself, and in others - much less, being accepted for it.

Among ourselves, we don't even like the "p" word much and think of what we are doing as Responsible Hedonism.  We think that RH is a transformational experience for a lot of people (and fully understand that its not for everyone either).  And I don't even like the use of the word 'responsible' in there, preferring 'sustainable.'   Its not a burn-out deal, its being in touch with the life-giving forces in the universe, and beyond that, being very in touch with what I think is about one of the most central unChristian principals of all, that every desire of your body is holy, sacred, and acting on that is about as close as your going to come to divine. 

This is hedonism that doesn't create drama (though is very dramatic) and isn't about excess, but is very strictly focused on pleasure, as both a means and an end.  And to the degree that such behavior is thought of as a perversion in a culture where sensual depravation is seen as saintly, well then I'm happy to run with the sinners.  And I know I'm not alone.  The shortened version - the happy version of 'pervert' is 'pervy' and you will get about 770K google hits on that word.  So I'm not alone.

Hi buttercup and all

Well don't believe I was considered to be a pervert, weird maybe and I like weird. I had 11 children under my roof through the years, the last four was with the cooperation of Social services and I really wanted to and I have thought of it since there are opening for working in day care centers.

So I guess that leaves me out of the pervert classification. I'm getting to old to jump all these different gender variant hoops anymore. The old grey mare ain't what she use to be, don't you know? Well especially since she got herself a bullet hole in her butt from back in the civil war.

Bottom line, I would be ready and willing to go to anyone's aid, even perverts.

Cindy 

Quote from: Natasha on December 31, 2007, 01:32:42 PM
myth:  transsexuals are not perverts.  period.

Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2007, 12:43:54 PM
In short, we live in a culture that has a Big Time tendency to demonize sex.

maybe so...but little detail though...transsexualism has nothing to do with sex.  this fact needs to be reinforced over and over again in order to "inform" cisgendered people that transsexuals are as "normal" as they are.

Not likely as long as the Transgender Community keeps linking themselves to homosexuals... and dragging transsexuals unwillingly along for the ride.

~Kate~

Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2007, 12:43:54 PM
Among ourselves, we don't even like the "p" word much and think of what we are doing as Responsible Hedonism.  We think that RH is a transformational experience for a lot of people (and fully understand that its not for everyone either).  And I don't even like the use of the word 'responsible' in there, preferring 'sustainable.'   Its not a burn-out deal, its being in touch with the life-giving forces in the universe, and beyond that, being very in touch with what I think is about one of the most central unChristian principals of all, that every desire of your body is holy, sacred, and acting on that is about as close as your going to come to divine.

i'm sorry, but i still feel like you're trying to re-write the dictionary. sex is demonized? what year are we talking about here? Perversion is one of those instances where both psychology and religion agree that the act in question is harmful. certain sexual behaviors are demonized, yes. but, shouldn't they be?

your thinking sounds dangerously close to Raskalnikov's. where does one draw the line? psycho killers, for instance, may have some really depraved desires -- which really shouldn't be acted on.

-ell

Quote from: ell on December 31, 2007, 02:18:26 PM

Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2007, 12:43:54 PM
Among ourselves, we don't even like the "p" word much and think of what we are doing as Responsible Hedonism.  We think that RH is a transformational experience for a lot of people (and fully understand that its not for everyone either).  And I don't even like the use of the word 'responsible' in there, preferring 'sustainable.'   Its not a burn-out deal, its being in touch with the life-giving forces in the universe, and beyond that, being very in touch with what I think is about one of the most central unChristian principals of all, that every desire of your body is holy, sacred, and acting on that is about as close as your going to come to divine.

i'm sorry, but i still feel like you're trying to re-write the dictionary. sex is demonized? what year are we talking about here? Perversion is one of those instances where both psychology and religion agree that the act in question is harmful. certain sexual behaviors are demonized, yes. but, shouldn't they be?

your thinking sounds dangerously close to Raskalnikov's. where does one draw the line? psycho killers, for instance, may have some really depraved desires -- which really shouldn't be acted on.

-ell

perverted

adjective
1.  (used of sexual behavior) showing or appealing to bizarre or deviant tastes; "kinky sex"; "perverted practices" [syn: kinky] 

Re-writing the dictionary? I am kinky, so as per the dictionary, I am perverted. No harm, no foul.

ahem! whatever.

"Re-writing the dictionary? I am kinky, so as per the dictionary, I am perverted. No harm, no foul."

She shoots, she scores.  For the rest, those that would use that word for some of the things I might do, will also use it for what I am, and if you don't think they attach the word to you, your behavior, your choices - then you need to get out more (or at least read the many news items reference at this site that come from the conservative, Christian right wing who thinks that being trans is worse than being gay).  To think that you are above this (or more likely beyond this) is an idea in err.

And, many, many people in the US consider any and all sex that is not "man on top, woman on the bottom, let's get it over with quick because we are only doing this so we can procreate" to be kinky and perverted.  Those of us who are trying to recreate the Goddess inspired version of a bacchanalia (both at home in the Bay Area and up in the high desert of Black Rock) know where we stand with the Christian/family values people, after all, the Christians didn't like the bacchanalia the first time around.  Neither did the Romans, largely because of the power that women hold at such events (woman having power was against Roman 'family values' as it turns out).  Of course, was it not the Fundy Xians here in the US who before 9-11 were linking with radical Islam to prevent women's rights charters?

See, the one myth that really needs to die a quick death, is the one that puts one group, or one person over others, thinking they are somehow not like (or better than) the others here.  As Ben Franklin once said, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

p.s.  I'm not much on psychology or religion, the first merely being a secular version of the second.

Perverted to me brings to mind sick practices that harm others. Window peeping or cellphone cameras to look up ladies' skirts are perverted because they violate the person's privacy. I assume I don't even have to explain why rapists and NAMBLA members are perverted.

What one does with consenting others is not perverted so long as it's not harmful.

Quote from:  link=topic=22906.msg181647#msg181647 date=1199137744
Perverted to me brings to mind sick practices that harm others. Window peeping or cellphone cameras to look up ladies' skirts are perverted because they violate the person's privacy. I assume I don't even have to explain why rapists and NAMBLA members are perverted.

What one does with consenting others is not perverted so long as it's not harmful.

Thank you! i'm totally down with kinky, but pervert, as a word, brings up lots of negative stuff like sexual predators, incest, etc.
you're not ok with that stuff, though, right tekla, right Cire?

Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2007, 03:30:32 PM

For the rest, those that would use that word for some of the things I might do, will also use it for what I am, and if you don't think they attach the word to you, your behavior, your choices -

Speak for yourself.  If you consider yourself a pervert.  Good. but dont imply that we/I are/am the same as you.  What does going out have to do with being perverted?

I do agree with Kate.

QuoteNot likely as long as the Transgender Community keeps linking themselves to homosexuals... and dragging transsexuals unwillingly along for the ride.

~Kate~

Hmmm all we need is the right pee pee to match the gender. Other wise I wouldn't care less if I  ever had sex. I think I will stay here in BC now. Here TS's are working to eventually run their own affairs, as we should be, truthfully, I am just me.

Cindy

I'd like peeps to keep in mind that the word 'pervert' and the image that goes along with it has been used to harm, debase and dismiss our community. This is not a term to be embraced and to 'reclaim' it would only cause further damage to our community.

Hi , Cindy bends down on one knee and dofts her hat off with the long plume and says merci Monsieur

Cindy