It seem's to me that there is some divisivness within the community as a whole: LGBT.

We saw a little of it with the non-inclusive TG ENDA earlier this year, and I can see it at another web site for TG support that won't let you join if you are too old as MTF / FTM   I saw the video on the other post here, respecting TG children and a TG childrens Bill of Rights as it were.

I strongly support that don't get me wrong. But, it seem's to me that other than here @ susan's, people in our own community are having some sort of TG-age war. Could be wrong? Maybe not?

As if it hasn't been hard enough for ALL OF US, past, present, future; to have any kind of "age movement" is ridiculous. I haven't even come out yet, still in the VERY early stages here and a lot of you have come out, been out, been fired for it, harrassed, living full time, pre-op, post op.

If we can't FULLY support one another, REGARDLESS of age of transition, what kind of anything will this be? Will there be law's, societal recognition for younger TG people, but the rest of US "older cow's" are freaks? 

Any thought's?

The LGBT community has never been a monolith.  There has always been a high level of divisivness not only between the letters, but within them.

Moreover, any time of high divisions - as we find ourselves in now - finds a lot of different divisions to marshall, age being just a real easy one to use.  And there is out there in the population now a rather bright line, the kind of which we saw in the 1920s and in the 1960s where the world the parents (elder) generation grew up in is nothing like that of the under 30s.  So its only natural that they seek some comfort with those who they feel 'understand' them.

Quote from: funnygrl on December 27, 2007, 12:06:09 PM
It seem's to me that there is some divisivness within the community as a whole: LGBT.

We saw a little of it with the non-inclusive TG ENDA earlier this year, and I can see it at another web site for TG support that won't let you join if you are too old as MTF / FTM   I saw the video on the other post here, respecting TG children and a TG childrens Bill of Rights as it were.

I strongly support that don't get me wrong. But, it seem's to me that other than here @ susan's, people in our own community are having some sort of TG-age war. Could be wrong? Maybe not?

As if it hasn't been hard enough for ALL OF US, past, present, future; to have any kind of "age movement" is ridiculous. I haven't even come out yet, still in the VERY early stages here and a lot of you have come out, been out, been fired for it, harrassed, living full time, pre-op, post op.

If we can't FULLY support one another, REGARDLESS of age of transition, what kind of anything will this be? Will there be law's, societal recognition for younger TG people, but the rest of US "older cow's" are freaks? 

Any thought's?

Hum...should never say 'Any thoughts?' with me around!!!

Surprisingly most LGBT organizations don't even have a transgender person on their board, so in my opinion, how can these organizations truly represent the needs of the entire LGBT spectrum? I don't think that they do and to a large degree some of them only give lip service to the needs of the transgender community. When I have talked to some of the local LGBT groups about this, they were honest and told me that they have had a hard time getting people from the transgender community to step forward to fill the board positions that they may have. I sort of blame both communities for this, but at the same time I can understand why so many transgender folks are reluctant to fill those positions...it forces you to basically live your life in full view of the public...you're not only out...your are OUT! With the amount of hate crimes committed against our community there are some true risks with living your life publicly.

To be honest there are different problems faced by someone who transitions in their teens or early twenties then say someone who transitions when they are 40...and sadly a lot of the differences in problems can be related to how well people pass. The truth of the matter is that if you transition when your...let's say 15 like I was...you are going to look more feminine then say someone who transitions at say 40. The affects of the hormones and testosterone blockers decrease with each year after puberty...just a fact of biology.

There is also to some degree lines drawn along size too...I personally can walk into any store in the mall and find wonderful clothes or shoes right off the rack...most of my friends are larger then me and can't walk into most stores and find something to wear...I learned long ago to go shopping by myself and not with friends...mostly because I don't want to make them feel bad about themselves...

And don't fool yourself...even though I have only been here two days...I have already seen some age/appearance discrimination in a few posts. As with every community you will always have people of different levels of success who want to have "their" issues addressed...it's not until we...as a community...can come together and work for the betterment of ALL our community. Life is about give and take...we can't all always be taking without giving....

Just my thoughts on the topic...

Peace and love,
Izzy

Well in order to be included you do have to show up.  Spot on about that one.  Where I live the LGBT has a good solid representation of ->-bleeped-<-s on the board and in other areas, like working for the Center.  But, I'm sure that is not the norm in most places.

After a few years of lobbying we got Frameline to include T into the gay/lesbian film fest in SF a few years ago.  And its wasn't any sort of anti-trans deal, it was a matter of 'will the ->-bleeped-<-s show up, buy tickets to the movies, go to them, help us with the festival?"  All very valid questions for any public business (and film fests are a business, if you don't make enough this year, you ain't having it next year) to think over.

I was approached about helping out, and put together a couple of grrls I know to be an all-->-bleeped-<- usher crew.  Between us we had about 150 years experience doing theater in some form or other, so I knew we could do it.  Matter of fact, we were 'usherlicious' and I know that a lot of the girls and guys coming out to the shows were happy to see people like themselves working there.  But yeah, you have to be out first.

I think we often forget that whether or not most of us, few of us, or all of us blend well with our target gender has much more to do with who our ancestors were/are than with any innate qualities of "realness' that we may or may not own ourselves.

Size, tendency toward weight or not, shoulder width, facial bone-structure, fat distribution, breasts are all pretty much genetic. The tendency on BBs often seems to be that "x is more valid than y, because x is younger/older, more or less experienced, better looking, less good looking, etc." All of which is basically meaningless anyhow.

My comparison of myself with anyone else and whether or not I look better or worse than they do, am older, younger, smarter or taller makes me not one whit more valid than it does anyone else. 

I understand the advantages of starting younger in any number of ways. I also understand better than some, I suspect, that there might be very good and terrible reasons why some do not begin at 13-25. Or do and then find that something they never expected ensues.

My validity is my own to find and I cannot find it by comparing myself to anyone else, in any way. I can imagine that some of the absolutely most useless and divisive threads are about that silly, subjective-to-the-nth-degree and most flame-producing subject in ->-bleeped-<--world; to wit, passing!!

I understand that many of us have or do live and die by whether or not we might, do or don't. And that is fine. But whether I pass or not doesn't seem all that great a matter. The biggest matter for me is can I make it through every day and not be overly concerned by such things? Can I lead a life now?

For that, no amount of comparison is of any value at all. I either can and do or cannot and do not. And since I know exactly one of you in real-life and she has never been to school, work or social life with me or I with her, we neither have any idea at all, about that part of the other's life. I suspect that she lives hers remarkably well. I feel like I do mine, except that my partner would say I am here too much. *smile*

Yes, there are definitely some socio-cultural factors that keep us disunited. But what sort of cultural factors scare us so badly on an inclusive BB that we need to heighten all the differences between me and you that I can muster?

May I be very real for just a moment? How sick must I get, in order for you to be healthy?

Just a series of answers to that would suffice me.

Thanks guys, gals and androgynes (however you wish to be designated)

Hugs all around,

Nichole

Also, it's not like we actually have much in common, as much in common as any group of boys girls and androgynes without even a job or a hobby or anything to keep us together.

Isabelle, while the effect decreases of hormones after puberty, this decrease is not exponential, its linear, it can be very slow. The main difference pre puberty use of E is changes in the bones and voice.

Hormone response is more dependent on genetics than on age; meaning, someone at 40 may have greater sensitivity to it than an other at 20.

The main differences in hormone response with age is human growth hormones which regulates how much response to a particular stimulus the body will have. How much someone is stimulated by a level of E is genetically determined and not age related. Its possible to compensate most age related HGH decrease by boosting estrogen levels to levels higher than those at puberty (which is not risky since its well below pregnancy levels).

IF response to estrogen is low (some genetic women also have this) boosting won't help much, same thing if someone has a very low HGH level, which can happen if someone is over 60 (and sometimes younger).

I would like this myth of massive response decrease to hormones after 18 to be finally broken.

While there is division within the LGBT community, I think this is the case with any group of people.

Just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean that I automatically have everything in common with some one else who also happens to be Jewish, for example we might not agree on Israel's policies in Palestine. I play certain styles of music, and have a number of friends with whom I enjoy getting together to play, and we don't share anything else in common such as politics or religion...

The main thing that LGBT share in common is oppression for who we are. And that's a big thing.

y2g

Quote from: funnygrl on December 27, 2007, 12:06:09 PM
It seem's to me that there is some divisivness within the community as a whole: LGBT.

Really?  I hadn't noticed

Great reply's everyone, thank you's all around!!!

Natasha I love you advatar!!! >