We contrast ourselves against others, as this is how we establish our value. This knowledge is desirable to us, because if we view ourselves as more valuable than others, we view ourselves as having a higher probability of surviving in others.

If Caitlyn Jenner makes someone feel more distant from their expected relative value, they will feel pain, and must either react by diminishing Caitlyn Jenner, working towards increasing their value, or adjusting their expectations. If Caitlyn Jenner does not make someone feel more distant from their expected relative value, then their criticism is an expression of their perceived superior value.

Quote from: Belial on January 05, 2016, 11:28:29 PM
Tamika, I do agree with the "our own worst enemy". I can shrug off (doesn't matter) calling me with female pronouns by my cis friends, even if they know I feel different, but when a trans person questions my identity or mixes it up, I'm annoyed as hell. Or might even feel hurt. When supposedly the people who should understand you/go through similar things as you not only don't offer support but try to fit you where THEY would like to see you, isn't it the worst?

I'm bisexual, mostly my existence is ignored by LGBT people and supporters. Or those anty. It's usually LGT. To the point of "if there would be only homo, we would die as a species" type of arguments (hey but bi exist!). I'm speaking of my experiences in my own country (and Indonesia LGBT forum too).

I have friends who accept me the way I am and don't deny my identification. That's my shelter.

Who could be worse enemy than supposed ally who should know (understand) better (than regular people) what were you going through?

As for C. Jenner, I don't care. Spokesperson? I can understand a spokesperson for a certain organisation but for a community of various people? Can't understand it.

I'll allow, we have extra firepower against each other. I don't concede that makes us our own worse enemy. But I can't concede that makes us our own worst enemies. There are politicians that would legislate our rights away with fear based rhetoric as their marching orders, there are huge segments of the population that would deny our existence and ban our treatments, and people who outright murder trans people. Those are way, way, worse enemies in my estimation.

I'm sorry in advance because this might sound a little bit blunt 

But, just how I see things, is that I'm a person firstly and a transsexual second. That places me in a tiny, and in some places disliked, minority but for me it does nothing more than that. I've met some really nice trans people and others I really didn't like at all. That was nothing to do with their trans-ness but more down to the fact that they either said or did things that made me want to dissociate myself from them! For that reason, on a personal level, I don't think I'd really get on with Caitlyn Jenner. I don't know that and wouldn't say it for definite - she could be lovely - but I'd need to meet her in order to know that and my assumption based on not very much is that I wouldn't.

But we aren't a 'thing' - we are real people. We have our friendly faces and kind words and bitchy asides and funny dislikes and whatever. It's what makes us real people  Being transsexual is a side-show in the face of that, for me anyway.

We have an understanding of each other through common experience and trauma, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have compatible personalities. As a silly example it's like expecting the group of survivors of a plane crash to all become best friends.

In my opinion, really, I think we've confused tolerance and liking. I'm totally tolerant and try to be friendly but that doesn't mean I'm going to like you lol  I will if you're nice though. That's something earned, and for me tolerance still allows for criticism and so on - but of who the person is, not what they are if that makes sense.

I'm so sorry if that came across harsh, but it's what I think  The sooner we get seen as real people rather than interesting objects, the sooner we make it into mainstream society. xx

Quote from: Missy D on January 06, 2016, 01:47:04 PM
In my opinion, really, I think we've confused tolerance and liking. I'm totally tolerant and try to be friendly but that doesn't mean I'm going to like you lol  I will if you're nice though. That's something earned, and for me tolerance still allows for criticism and so on - but of who the person is, not what they are if that makes sense.

I'm so sorry if that came across harsh, but it's what I think  The sooner we get seen as real people rather than interesting objects, the sooner we make it into mainstream society. xx

Well, to me, this does not seem harsh at all. I'd add that for me, tolerance doesn't have to be associated with agreeing exactly with someone else's viewpoint but rather it is an attitude that even when you can't bring yourself to agree with them you love and accept them into your life as they are without any sense of superiority over them. That's the kind of tolerant attitude that I want to achieve in my own life and hope that others will be able to extend to me.

Dear Missy D:

In my opinion, really, I think we've confused tolerance and liking. I'm totally tolerant and try to be friendly but that doesn't mean I'm going to like you lol  I will if you're nice though. That's something earned, and for me tolerance still allows for criticism and so on - but of who the person is, not what they are if that makes sense.


How eloquently said!