Man in women's locker room cites gender rule

http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/seattle/2016/02/16/man-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/80478058/

KING 5/Alison Morrow, KING 5 News 5:25 p.m. PST February 16, 2016

"Seattle Parks and Recreation is facing a first-of-a-kind challenge to gender bathroom rules. A man undressed in a women's locker room, citing a new state rule that allows people to choose a bathroom based on gender identity."

Unfortunately there will always be somebody that will try ruin things for others There are 2 possible reasons for his actions that I can see .One is he opposes the bathroom laws and is trying to alienate Woman against it by saying look anybody can do the same and that is a very powerful argument against us .Or of course he could just be a Pervert trying to catch a peek at the woman .This does make things very difficult for us genuine transgender people in how to reassure other locker users of our good intentions .I would say that transgender or not a person should not get access to a gendered restroom or locker room if they are not looking dressed appropriately for the gender of the room .I am a full time MTF and if for some reason I was presenting as Male (god forbid LOL) I would not attempt to use the ladies restroom even though I feel that is the one appropriate for Me I would use the Gents but still sit .As I would not want to make my fellow women uncomfortable. As I hope all of You would act the same Way .So I think that appropriate clothing should be a big factor on allowing access to restrooms and myself I would have no objection to somebody keeping an eye out and asking inappropriately dressed persons why they want to use that Facility at least that way a CIS person that is for whatever reason looking Misgendered can explain and there is no problem for anybody

Toni

And the same would be true of these laws states are trying to get passed that say you have to use the bathroom of your birth sex. Any guy could walk into the women's room/lockerroom and just say they're post-op FTM. I remember hearing about some countries having a single full-sized public bathroom for both sexes (at the same time). Maybe that's the solution to this.

However, this incident points a to a grave miscalculation on the part of trans rights activists. We've been touting the fact that no one has ever done this, while we all know full well it was only a matter of time when someone did.

Recently in WA there was an attempt to overturn the "use the facilities you identify as" law.

The opponents brought up the usual "...but it's not safe!" arguments, so I think this guy was just trying to prove a point.

According to the article, he made no claim to be trans, and only took off his shirt. Very much a "hey look at me!" protest, certainly not the kind of surreptitious threat our opponents claim will happen.

The sad thing is, he probably only did this specifically because lawmakers have constantly been spouting "anyone can walk into a women's room and claim to be trans," where not a single person probably would have thought about it and it would never have been an issue had they not opened their big stupid mouths.

I guess the question remains, what do we need to do in order to have our rights? How can we draft legislation that allows trans and intersex people to use the bathroom that matches their identity rather than the gender marker on their birth certificates with full protections while also not letting non-trans people do stupid crap like this just because they can?

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 17, 2016, 08:56:13 AM
However, this incident points a to a grave miscalculation on the part of trans rights activists. We've been touting the fact that no one has ever done this, while we all know full well it was only a matter of time when someone did.

Suzi - there are always going to be perverts in the world, and the law should prosecute this guy as such since he is clearly breaking the law.

The unfortunate thing is that the people that are against us will use this as an example of what can happen when it clearly wasn't one of us that did it. We are presumed guilty without having done anything. We are the ones that will suffer because of this guy's misconduct.

We are still right in claiming that a transgender person has never done such a thing, but i'm not quite sure it matters to the opposition at this point - they now have the news story that they need to "prove their point".

The sad thing is that if the anti-transgender bathroom laws were in full effect as the anti-transgender people want the laws would not have stopped this guy from doing this if he chose to proceed with his plan.

Emotions are overruling common sense about this issue.

People really are petty, aren't they

If as many people that care about the bathroom myth cared about the street and domestic violence against women and children we'd be able to solve a lot of problems. They want cis-female only bathrooms, but if someone suggested female only taxi services or streets to prevent women being attacked - the exact same reason they want segregated bathrooms - then there'd be a not-all-men kind of outcry. Why are safe spaces scoffed at until it means they can persecute someone? 

Quote from: Carrie Liz on February 17, 2016, 09:11:05 AM
The sad thing is, he probably only did this specifically because lawmakers have constantly been spouting "anyone can walk into a women's room and claim to be trans," where not a single person probably would have thought about it and it would never have been an issue had they not opened their big stupid mouths.

I guess the question remains, what do we need to do in order to have our rights? How can we draft legislation that allows trans and intersex people to use the bathroom that matches their identity rather than the gender marker on their birth certificates with full protections while also not letting non-trans people do stupid crap like this just because they can?

I don't like it but..... i'm thinking that a possible solution is going to be that we have to carry a card issued from a medical professional or another authorized authority stating that we are transgender and we have to produce it on demand. Possessing such a card would give us full legal protection.

This "solution" would cause huge problems for those of us that are not full time, those of us who are not transitioning or are unable to transition, and those of us who are not currently under the care of a medical professional.

Quote from: Peep on February 17, 2016, 09:38:52 AM
People really are petty, aren't they

If as many people that care about the bathroom myth cared about the street and domestic violence against women and children we'd be able to solve a lot of problems. They want cis-female only bathrooms, but if someone suggested female only taxi services or streets to prevent women being attacked - the exact same reason they want segregated bathrooms - then there'd be a not-all-men kind of outcry. Why are safe spaces scoffed at until it means they can persecute someone?

Most (if not all) of the sensitivity to this is because of the literally naked feeling people have when using toilets or showers...to them, it invites rape.

Perhaps this is an angle we could work on to reduce their fear? At least the general public's fear?

Quote from: Eva Marie on February 17, 2016, 09:41:53 AM
I don't like it but..... i'm thinking that a possible solution is going to be that we have to carry a card issued from a medical professional or another authorized authority stating that we are transgender and we have to produce it on demand. Possessing such a card would give us full legal protection.

This "solution" would cause huge problems for those of us that are not full time, those of us who are not transitioning or are unable to transition, and those of us who are not currently under the care of a medical professional.

I have an "F" on my d/l...not everyone does, even many who pass better than me (and I don't).

Quote from: Eva Marie on February 17, 2016, 09:41:53 AM
I don't like it but..... i'm thinking that a possible solution is going to be that we have to carry a card issued from a medical professional or another authorized authority stating that we are transgender and we have to produce it on demand. Possessing such a card would give us full legal protection.

This "solution" would cause huge problems for those of us that are not full time, those of us who are not transitioning or are unable to transition, and those of us who are not currently under the care of a medical professional.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on February 17, 2016, 09:47:11 AM
I have an "F" on my d/l...not everyone does, even many who pass better than me (and I don't).

Yeah, therein lies the problem. Some states have regressive ID laws where you can't change the gender marker on your driver's license unless you've also changed the gender marker on your birth certificate, most states still require surgery for that, and heck, if you're born in Ohio but live in Michigan, you can't ever change either because since Michigan requires an amended birth certificate to change your ID and Ohio never lets you change your birth certificate even after surgery, tough luck, you're up the creek.

Unless EVERY single state adopts progressive legislation to allow trans people to change gender markers on IDs, this isn't a feasible solution. And even then, even if we were at that point, there are a LOT of people who can't even afford IDs, let alone afford the medical approval required to get the letters required to change the gender markers on those IDs. This would basically be setting up a classist system where only middle/upper-class trans people were allowed to use the right bathroom, and non-binary people or anyone who wants to present as various sexes without medically transitioning would be up the creek too.

I propose that anyone caught abusing this law be sentenced to immediate hormonal and surgical reassignment. 

If that penalty were given, guys like that wouldn't abuse the law.


Sapere Aude

Sadly, at some point once one of these laws is passed, some legislator will decide that breaking that law is a sex crime and put us on the sexual offenders list.

As citizens, we are capable of introducing bills to change bathroom usage laws, birth certificate rules, drivers license rules, etc. But we don't. Johnny Churchgoer gets off his butt to try to keep us out of restrooms, and our response is to complain rather than do something to help ourselves. Introduce a bill, people. No one is going to do it for you.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Carrie Liz on February 17, 2016, 10:13:29 AM


Yeah, therein lies the problem. Some states have regressive ID laws where you can't change the gender marker on your driver's license unless you've also changed the gender marker on your birth certificate, most states still require surgery for that, and heck, if you're born in Ohio but live in Michigan, you can't ever change either because since Michigan requires an amended birth certificate to change your ID and Ohio never lets you change your birth certificate even after surgery, tough luck, you're up the creek.

Unless EVERY single state adopts progressive legislation to allow trans people to change gender markers on IDs, this isn't a feasible solution. And even then, even if we were at that point, there are a LOT of people who can't even afford IDs, let alone afford the medical approval required to get the letters required to change the gender markers on those IDs. This would basically be setting up a classist system where only middle/upper-class trans people were allowed to use the right bathroom, and non-binary people or anyone who wants to present as various sexes without medically transitioning would be up the creek too.

I know all of that Carrie. As I said I don't like it for the reasons that I (and you) listed - It's too much like "papers please".  Still, a proposal like could eventually be proposed by a lawmaker at some point.

What would happen if a cis man went into the ladies' room claiming to be trans? I mean claiming that he was assigned female at birth and is on HRT etc.

This sounds like a person taking a good law and using it to further his own end. Just the thing the example bigoted people would use against transgender people.

Love,
Clare

Look in a sense, people need to get over bathrooms and locker rooms. Partial or whole nudity for whatever time is required does not equal danger. It is silly to equate it as such. People should choose the side that matches their identity without needing a note from home, explaining themselves, or meeting anyone's standard in my opinion. The second they abuse that right like sitting there staring at people, they find themselves out on the street and asked not to return. The police call follows that.

Clearly this guy was a jerk if i am reading the story right, there are jerks the world over.

i love Germany, in many public facilities some toilets and many locker rooms are only gender segregated as far as there are cubicles that can and are often not used for additional privacy. Everyone showers, everyone does their business and leaves. That is a better model. 

But you can bet a bunch of trans people unable to afford the cost of reassignment would "abuse" the law in order to be sentenced to the "punishment." 

Quote from: Deborah on February 17, 2016, 10:41:40 AM
I propose that anyone caught abusing this law be sentenced to immediate hormonal and surgical reassignment. 

If that penalty were given, guys like that wouldn't abuse the law.


Sapere Aude