My understanding of my gender being out of whack was entirely separate from my concept of sexual attraction. Like you, i always accepted my attraction to both genders from my earliest understanding of it, but my understanding of what i was like, gender wise was very different.

Despite everyone in my age group, generally associating the two, to me that seemed completely foreign. I had deep relationships with both men and women and ultimately married a woman, through that whole time though i had this very active understanding of me not being in the correct place gender wise. That manifested itself in both deeply profound and very superficial, but non- sexual ways throughout my life. From having the boys do my projects in wood shop, because i was afraid of the saws, to absolutely loving fashion and feminine design. I really knew i was a girl.

I've pondered this question over the past few weeks for myself. For me, I've always been sexually attracted to women, but I've never felt comfortable in the "male" role in terms of intimacy. I found this to be true when I lost my virginity at 24, which is the moment most young men remember the rest of their lives. For me it seemed a hollow physical act, without the intimacy that I craved. That was the point in my life when I started to question why I felt that way, & started to fantasize more and more about living as a woman.

It's taken me all of these years to realize that my lack of intimacy was related to the fact that I've lived my whole life as a man, when truthfully I've felt more like a woman on the inside.

This whole process of discovery has been made even more complicated by the fact that I've lived my whole life a 100% masculine male, who has never been attracted to other men. I thought my attraction to women just made my desire to be a woman just a fetish, but I now understand that's not the case at all.

This was simple for me. I'm bisexual but I wasn't able to come out for several reasons (being in the military while dadt was in effect being the biggest). As soon as I was able to, I came out and actually included men and women as dating possibilities. Since that didn't "fix my problem" on its own, I knew there was more to it than just that. The thing is, I don't really care what the gender of the person is that I'm dating. I do care what my gender is. The two were only related because I faced them around the same time when I was able to express myself more.

When I became openly bi it didn't change or explain my deep comfort in being in female clothes or my lack of understanding on why males do what they do. I look back on my life sometimes and find that my favourite characters in my favourite books and TV shows were all female. And my sexuality didn't explain why I lit up when any random person in my daily travels identified me as female.

How do you know gender is the problem and not just sexuality?

I know it just because I'm not interested at all in having any sort of new and\or different sexual experience. Sex is not my concern.

My suffering has another root, which is not "sexual". Living as "male" drived me to isolation, and "as male" I would be a very "grey" person, absolutely anonymous.

I try to explain better: i never care for my masculine appearence, I never bought a particular masculine suit in order to appear pleasant in that gender - my masculine appearence is much more close to the one of "Lieutenant Colombo", sleazy and frumpy.

As if to say to the world-society: "you want me to be a man? well, this is the roughness you will get!"

But, in doing that way, I was just despising myself, because deep down i felt a coward: i didn't fulfill the social expectation wearing a proper masculine appearance but, at the same time, i didn't had the courage to express in another way.

The only exception has been the long hair I always had since my very youth - a Rebel touch. But, when the time passes, "me-as-male" became ever more grey, and insignificant, just a boring burden, a boring and sad role play.

Meanwhile the "woman in me" started to push to come out, in order to express herself, somehow in a very strong way, and sometimes in a pretty explosive and shocking way...

But this is not a "sexual matter", all this did not happen in order to have any sexual arousal or to have any different occasional sex or a different kind of sexual relationship.

It's something deeper, it concern my very inner way to be. Going on playing the "role" of the "meaningless man" is would be just like killing me. I'm aware that "as man" i am totally hopeless, just because i'm not into that at all - i just "acted" that way in order to fulfill others expectations (family, society... etc), now I'm no more able to play that way, therefore my job and my financial situation is in suffering for this reason. I've rejected all what the sad old man built up around in order to fulfill others expectations.

... and, this way to be is very self-destructive.

Sex is not the problem, I've already had sex in so many ways, and I'm not looking for that.

My very urge now is to delete "the irrelevant sad old man" that i built up in my brain. That "sad old man" wasn't there when i was a child - i was a girl, a sensitive, noncompetitive, creative, caring and loving girl...

That "sad old man" is just like an uploaded software in my brain, it wasn't there - it has been uploaded, and now it has to be deleted, because is damaging the whole system.

Where is the "sex" in all this? Nowhere, it's an existential matter, not a sexual one.



Hugs,
Aly

*English is not my first language - maybe somewhere is not perfect, but i think i wrote something of understandable .

Oddly enough I looked at sexuality as being a spectrum long before I thought of gender that way. I have always been comfortable with my sexuality and have resisted applying a name to it. I've dated cis-women, cis-men, trans-women, and trans-men; for lack of a better term I suppose you would call me pansexual, although I have always hated that word. I much prefer "not all that picky" or "equal opportunity slut". For me it has always been about the person, not the body they happen to inhabit.

That being said, I was never comfortable with my own body. I would look at things like the Victoria's Secret catalogue, and rather that think "she's hot, I'd like to be with her" I would think "I wish that looked that good on me". I denied that I was trans for a very long time simply because my life didn't seem to be in as much turmoil as the few trans people I did know. I told myself that I couldn't possibly be trans because I wasn't anywhere near as messed up as they were. Once I started researching beyond my small circle, the alarm bells went off, I was indeed trans.

Quote from: stephaniec on February 20, 2016, 09:45:16 AM
Just a little curious how others came to the conclusion that the real underlying problem was a mismatch in gender expression rather than just a sense of sexual attraction. My path started at 4 with crossdressing then progressed to viewing a neighbor of mine as a boyfriend and experimenting sexually as I grew up through puberty with male and female sex partners. My bisexuality has and never will go away because I'm very comfortable viewing myself as bisexual. Along the way I have always been a crossdresser and knew there was a very important component to my crossdressing both mentally and physically that was horrendously missing. I knew after puberty that my problem was that I needed the proper hormones. After puberty I was quite sexually active which at one point got extreme , but is was never satisfying, there was always the missing component of estrogen and the physical need to have the proper body irrespective of any sex involved. The crossdressing stopped making any sense to me without the proper physical anatomy to fill the dress properly. I stopped everything physically and actively stopped the dressing because it made no sense anymore because I realize at that point that the problem was my gender. I started my transition not long ago and the mental effect of estrogen has been monumental. I can't change the past , but I learning to get the most out of the present. In one sense when I was young the sexual part was so overwhelming there was no way I could of understood that gender was the issue and not sexual predisposal . In this sense there was a benefit to later transitioning even though I so wish it was sooner. Has any one come to a point in life when that light bulb goes off and shows you the difference between your sexual desires and your needs as the proper gender or is it just all bunched up together in a swirling tornado .

It seemed relitivly easy for me, considering attraction is how I figured it all out.  I was with me, and didn't like it. So then I was with woman, and loved it. But with woman one thing was missing....I wanted to be with them in a different way....As. A. Man. And so the transition began.  :-)

thanks for all the great responses, we seem to have some core similarities yet maintain or uniqueness . Great book

I would actually conflate sexuality and gender identity a lot.  I was attracted to men pre-transition, and would often automatically get feminized in my relationships with men because I am way smaller than your typical male-bodied person.

On the one hand, I had dysphoria because of things like body hair, facial hair, and my voice dropping, and on the other, I was able to ignore those things for a long time because I felt "feminine enough" in other ways.

Being in relationships with gay men was eventually what made me realize that I actually needed to live as a woman.  Although some gay guys would feminize me to a greater or lesser extent (but not usually very nicely or respectfully), they would still find me attractive for features of mine that were more masculine.  Gradually, I realized that I was repulsed by how gay men saw me, and why they found me attractive, and I started noticing my dysphoria more and more.  This got way worse by the time I turned thirty and my facial hair grew so thick that I started looking like a "man's man" in some pictures even despite my being tiny.

It was such a relief when I went on AAs, and realized that I still wanted to live socially a woman in the absence of a sex drive.  That part of my life clarified so much for me, and I remember during that period, I loved being intimate in a non-sexual way with my current bf, and being related to and seen as a woman irrespective of what we were doing sexually. 

that kind of happened to me in a way. When I was a lot younger the sex and identity thing was just a mumbo jumbo tossed together and throw in the cross dressing and it was a mess . Then I abstained from sex for quite a while and just cross dressed. I realized something very big was missing  in crossdressing . My body needed to be right and it just hurt so bad that I was so wrong. I'm glad I finally got on hormones because I would of died because I was so wrong and couldn't take it anymore. That's what's happening to me now is that the hormones are letting me see how wrong my body still is and needs the final fix. I thought I could get away with just the hormones , but the reality is  I can't and  I need the total package. I probably have known all my life that I needed GCS medically , but its a big step and I guess I've just been afraid. I'm ready to do it I just need to work things out to get there . So yea my body is messed up and I hate the way it is. It's the final round in life for me , but to be right for just a short time would be worth it.

hormones have done a great job mentally and physcally

Dear Stephanie,
Thanks for starting the thread.   I was extremely relieved to find out that I could live my life as a complete person. My sexuality was always about being female, being feminine. My fear was that that was all there was to it. It was very unsatisfying to think that I would have to have one life for female things and one life for my interaction with the world. My sex life became so painful mentally because I would be in a good (feminine) place and then wham the shame and denial would come raging back because I had to return to maleness (I thought). I guess there was one good thing that came out of it. I have absolutely no doubt now of my need for GCS. I only was able to understand this by starting transition. I found out I was able to accept myself as female in every way. Yea!!!!  As for who I desire? I am happy with my female partner. On a theoretical basis, I am getting more curious about what it would be like to be with a guy. I seem to be evolving on the subject. I am probably never going to act on that thought though.
Moni

for myself sexuality never played a part in it. I knew I was a girl for as long as I could remember. Just someone made a mistake and gave me a fire hose

For it was never about sexuality. Pre-hrt i was attracted to women, never had any real interaction with them on a social level as I was extremely shy as a male.

As child I never questioned my gender, it was only when I started puberty, did i start questioning things. I was a little jealous of the girls, i saw they were getting breasts and developing into women, and they got wear these cute outfits etc. I wanted to experience how it was like to be a girl. I started wearing pantyhose and a panties in secret after school. Later I stole a cheerleader skirt to wear as well. I would love the hours between school and when my parents got home, as I could wear my girly stuff. I was too scared to wear anything else.

Then I at 19 I was caught, a female friend arrived unexpectedly while I was wearing my skirt. She was very open minded. that was the best thing that ever happened to me. She worked at a thrift shop part time and she organized me a lovely dress and shoes etc and with her help I started cross dressing in full outfits. I think she enjoyed dressing me like a doll. I started questioning my gender, as it felt normal to be dressed as women. I would spend the weekend with her (we were never romantic) and I was only allowed to be dressed as a woman. She encouraged to me to explore my gender and i went to therapy. Hrt started at 21, and I went full time then.

I must have been on HRT about 2 years when I started my attraction to men, I always assumed I was lesbian. I was always submissive in nature. I started dating a man, it was weird at first, especially the first time he held my hand and a little weirder when he kissed me, but it also felt so right, I was meant to play the "female" role. My fears quickly disappeared and I even slept with him. That relationship ran its course and ended.

I did not date again until after SRS, I wanted the right genitals for my female role. My first relationship after SRS was a fling with a woman, but I did not find it satisfying. Then I met my current man, and everything was great, I was a straight woman. I love being his girlfriend and I have fallen deeply in love with him. I love it when he holds me at night in bed and he satisfies my needs when it comes to sex. When he proposed to me, he made me a very happy woman. I cant wait to be his wife.

congratulations, even though for me it's much later  in life being with a man is really my only dream anymore. I need to be in the right body though. I've had men before and been treated properly as a woman , but it's not enough anymore, I so much want a man to hold me properly . I'm glad for you that you have what you have and I hope I can get there. It's just my dream is getting so real and the opportunity  is there I just need to make it happen.

Well, I'm a lesbian, so... it was pretty clear to me, no way to mix them up.

And I know so many gay cis people who have no desire to transition to become straight trans people, and gay trans people like myself who would not consider not transitioning...

I'm a little late to party, sorry, was away for a bit!

For me, this was a very confusing and hard to answer question.

I crossdressed a lot as a kid. Identified as male but still did it a lot, and wished was female.

Puberty hit and I continued, actually I escalated it. First time I got off, accidentally i might add, was wearing female clothes, and the two became intertwined. Never took care of business w/o that too.

Mid 20s started wanting to go farther with dressing, wanted to go out actually. Look for ways to "pass" even tho didn't know the term back then. While doing that, found this place.

Read stories, learned about transitioning, starting looking at myself and realized things weren't working out all that well for me. I was really depressed and didn't like myself, never felt comfortable with myself or others; felt that way for a long time.

I struggled with determining if this was all a fetish, me wanting to be a girl, me being just super horny and perverted and figuring if I couldn't get with a female I'd become one, (virgin), things like that. I wasn't into guys while I saw myself as one too, that felt icky to me. This went on for a year, if not longer. In the end, figured, what I am now isn't working, hasn't worked, don't see it ever working...I wanted to be a girl, wanted breasts and all the others things since I was young, I was miserable and considering ending things; figured what did I have to lose? Took the plunge and can't ever see myself going back now.

I knew something felt a bit off about me or that I never seemed to fit in well before, but it all got handed down to me on a plate when I started to get reoccuring dreams about swapping genders. The dreams were me living my day to day life but as a woman and that got the ball rolling.

Quote from: Luna Star on February 24, 2016, 02:55:43 PM
I knew something felt a bit off about me or that I never seemed to fit in well before, but it all got handed down to me on a plate when I started to get reoccuring dreams about swapping genders. The dreams were me living my day to day life but as a woman and that got the ball rolling.

that happened to me after puberty

Quote from: stephaniec on February 24, 2016, 03:17:55 PM
that happened to me after puberty

It hit me in my early 20's after I began to read and research more about the LGBT spectrum, & I started to discover gender fiction websites like fictionmania as an outlet. I just told myself for years that becoming a woman wasn't possible, not without a ton of cosmetic/major surgery. It wasn't till the last few months that I discovered by chance after a conversation with a friend who CDs, just how effective hrt can be in gender transformation. I think that made me begin to question whether my earlier feelings about gender transformation were fetish, or a real desire.

I never really took my desire to be a woman seriously, because I wasn't sure it was even possible. Now that I know transition is possible, I've almost become infatuated with thoughts of transition. It's almost as if I have become so addicted to the idea of transition, that I can't take my mind off of it.

I guess all of this has helped me to come to realize that my desire to transition is genuine, since a fetish would not produce such as strong a conviction as to the path I'm planning to take.