if there's some group or entity in or outside of existence that is capable of having made everything, they're probably waaaaaay cooler than their biography.

Quote from: Phek on February 27, 2016, 02:01:32 AM
if there's some group or entity in or outside of existence that is capable of having made everything, they're probably waaaaaay cooler than their biography.

You mean they're much more infinite than the bible? I'm sure they are.

i mean if there is a god, and he made us with the cruel irony that we're wrong just for being in existence, then either christianity is wrong (dont recall the bible ever mentioning trans ppl, but hey. humans are ->-bleeped-<-s), and god loves everyone no matter what rich white ppl in mississippi think, or god is an ->-bleeped-<- who doesn't deserve worship cause the things he made can love better than he can.

I've never had a lot of difficulty reconciling my faith and my gender.

I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others. And if I am wrong? That's fine - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, and IMO that's what's most important and what Christ wanted from all of us.

Quote from: Phek on February 27, 2016, 05:59:53 AM
i mean if there is a god, and he made us with the cruel irony that we're wrong just for being in existence, then either christianity is wrong

No, in fact that is exactly what evangelical Calvanism teaches.  Some people are created by God without hope of salvation; predestined at the beginning of creation to spend eternity in hell.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: FTMax on February 27, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
I've never had a lot of difficulty reconciling my faith and my gender.

I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others. And if I am wrong? That's fine - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, and IMO that's what's most important and what Christ wanted from all of us.

I ask Christ for forgiveness everyday for anything I have done that may be a sin even if it doesn't say anything about it in the bible. Then I feel like he is telepathically embracing me, but at the same time feel guilt because my grandmother said "Jesus made you such a pretty girl because he loved you."

Quote from: Deborah on February 27, 2016, 09:49:44 AM
No, in fact that is exactly what evangelical Calvanism teaches.  Some people are created by God without hope of salvation; predestined at the beginning of creation to spend eternity in hell.


Sapere Aude

I think that's ridiculous.

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 27, 2016, 02:28:51 PM
I think that's ridiculous.

The majority of American Evangelicals do follow in full or at least in part the theology of John Calvin of which this teaching on predestination is a major part.  The only ones to my knowledge who don't are Lutherans who follow the theology of Martin Luther.  So ridiculous or not there are tens of millions of American Christians who do believe this.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 27, 2016, 01:11:44 AM

This was a nice story to hear. Can you estimate what your church will think of your SRS?

I have to admit that I am no where near a decision on surgery. I am dressing androgynously but mostly still presenting as male. I am out only to my wife, my oldest daughter and a few friends. I have been hoping this is the year I will present more often and come out to more.

It is my belief that if I talked to our pastor and it was presented carefully that about half the congregation would support me; 1/4 would try to ignore it and me and the last quarter would either be hostile or completely ignore me. It is an older congregation, on the whole. I suspect if/when I get to that point I may be moving and starting fresh anyway.

Not a great example of courage... However, I think that my denomination would be prepped to accept us(trans community). It is also my belief that religion's core problems come from the fact that they are created by humans, not a deity. So the same inspirations and troubles we have from our governments are experienced within our religions.

Long meandering answer for a simple question.

Sorry,

Joanna

Quote from: Deborah on February 27, 2016, 02:36:24 PM
The majority of American Evangelicals do follow in full or at least in part the theology of John Calvin of which this teaching on predestination is a major part.  The only ones to my knowledge who don't are Lutherans who follow the theology of Martin Luther.  So ridiculous or not there are tens of millions of American Christians who do believe this.


Sapere Aude

Deborah,

If you don't mind me adding. Presbyterianism did come from Calvinism. However, as it evolved and shifted, predestination has become far more complex than is generally presented. My pastor even spoke to this about a year ago.

Here are four points about how it is seen in today's world:


I think at least four points are important. First of all, the Reformed tradition has always stressed the freedom of God, and predestination has been connected to a doctrine of God's freedom and of God's lordship over the universe, over all creation. The doctrine of predestination re-emphasizes that God alone is Lord.

In the second place, the doctrine of predestination functions for us today, as well as it did for Luther and Calvin, to safeguard the doctrine of justification by grace. I think our experience is that faith comes as a gift from God; we understand that God comes to us with God's grace--to which we can only respond with gratitude. And Reformed predestination is a way of saying God has taken the initiative in giving us these gifts.

Third, I think that, along with the Reformers, we can see this doctrine as a source of assurance of God's love for us. It is a doctrine that gives us confidence as we stand before God as forgiven sinners.

Finally, we need to see the doctrine as the Reformers did as part of a doctrine of providence: God cares about everything God has created, and God has a purpose for each person who has been created.

Those of us who are called to faith can give thanks for God's initiative in dealing with us so graciously. But most contemporary Presbyterians are reluctant to assume that we know anything about God's purpose for those who seem to have rejected faith. We perceive it to be dangerous to move beyond the mystery of predestination to try to explain what God has not revealed.

The whole history of theology reflects tension in relating a Biblical concept of calling or election or predestination with an equally Biblical doctrine of human responsibility. The Reformed tradition has held that sinners are responsible for their sinful acts even though they are unable to turn away from them without the gift of God's grace. But it has also insisted that God's grace transforms the will so that it can freely obey God's will, though not perfectly.

The Christian is therefore responsible for finding God's will and living in accordance with it. We are free to obey God. We must continue to work theologically at relating God's calling or predestination with human responsibility.

Taken from comments in an interview of Jane Dempsey Douglass on one of the Presbyterian websites. It has a lot more detail and if you are interested, here is the link:

https://www.presbyterianmission.org/ministries/today/predestination/

Joanna



Joanna

meh, religion is rice; pick a topping.

Quote from: FTMax on February 27, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
I've never had a lot of difficulty reconciling my faith and my gender.

I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others. And if I am wrong? That's fine - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, and IMO that's what's most important and what Christ wanted from all of us.

I've had similar thoughts about helping others. I have no quality of life as a woman and no cis person can imagine how important GRS is to me. If I'm not happy with myself I can't be good to others. You have to love yourself before you can love others. I have an inferiority complex for being female. Not that Cis women are inferior because they naturally have women's souls.

I have the sin of vainglory or pride and ask for forgiveness all the time. For me cohabitation without marriage and fornication are inevitable sins. Life wouldn't be enjoyable for me without those sins. If we are fallen and of a sinful nature I feel like God would feel closer to us or we are closer to him when we repent regardless of the sin. My Orthodox Christian friend warned me about choosing passions of this world over God. I do not feel like I'm putting them before God.

I am not wonderful at interpreting the bible. I am still looking for a good church for me. This Sunday I go to the Episcopal church which I hear accepts gays and trans people as they are. So if they notice me turning into a man I'll let them know.

I am already a member of the Unitarian Universalist Church which is good, but not really Christian. So in addition I'll need baptism and communion every Sunday morning. I will meet up with my mostly GLBT friends from the Unitarian Church periodically.

I admire Eastern Orthodoxy and love the people and to read about the saints, but they won't accept my lifestyle. I would have to repent and repeat cannons very often. I need something more modern. I'm not enough of a martyr to be one of them.

Only God sees what good I do, and I pray that it evens out. Other people only see my sins, but God knows what's in my heart. As time goes on more churches are starting to accept LGBT for who/what they are whether they believe it's a sin or not.

Quote from: Joanna50 on February 29, 2016, 10:54:06 AM
It is also my belief that religion's core problems come from the fact that they are created by humans, not a deity

I have thought that many times before. When we bravely come out as transexuals and the church sees that we are decent Christians like them they will realize it's just like any other sin, no better no worse. Our beloved father Christ may have put us here for that very reason. This is a challenge we face in life.

Do you ever picture your immortal soul in heaven and feel like Jesus will understand that you are trying to look like your old self by having GRS?  I know what my immortal soul looks like and by changing my gender and possibly getting plastic surgery on my face later on I will feel more whole and present as I will in Heaven. I know that many will see it as vanity, and I admit it is and pride is a sin, but I want to look the way I feel on the inside. This is about self expression and quality of life for me.

If I cannot love myself I have a hard time connecting with others. I am sure that I will feel relief getting my masculinity back and feel more gratitude towards God, and others and be able to love my neighbor better. If my GRS isn't meant to be God won't let it happen, but if it is he will guide me through the path.

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 29, 2016, 06:28:51 PM

Quote from: FTMax on February 27, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
I've never had a lot of difficulty reconciling my faith and my gender.

I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others. And if I am wrong? That's fine - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, and IMO that's what's most important and what Christ wanted from all of us.

I've had similar thoughts about helping others. I have no quality of life as a woman and no cis person can imagine how important GRS is to me. If I'm not happy with myself I can't be good to others. You have to love yourself before you can love others. I have an inferiority complex for being female. Not that Cis women are inferior because they naturally have women's souls.

I have the sin of vainglory or pride and ask for forgiveness all the time. For me cohabitation without marriage and fornication are inevitable sins. Life wouldn't be enjoyable for me without those sins. If we are fallen and of a sinful nature I feel like God would feel closer to us or we are closer to him when we repent regardless of the sin. My Orthodox Christian friend warned me about choosing passions of this world over God. I do not feel like I'm putting them before God.

I am not wonderful at interpreting the bible. I am still looking for a good church for me. This Sunday I go to the Episcopal church which I hear accepts gays and trans people as they are. So if they notice me turning into a man I'll let them know.

I am already a member of the Unitarian Universalist Church which is good, but not really Christian. So in addition I'll need baptism and communion every Sunday morning. I will meet up with my mostly GLBT friends from the Unitarian Church periodically.

I admire Eastern Orthodoxy and love the people and to read about the saints, but they won't accept my lifestyle. I would have to repent and repeat cannons very often. I need something more modern. I'm not enough of a martyr to be one of them.

Only God sees what good I do, and I pray that it evens out. Other people only see my sins, but God knows what's in my heart. As time goes on more churches are starting to accept LGBT for who/what they are whether they believe it's a sin or not.

Not sure if they have any in your area, but check out an ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) church if they have one around. You might like it.

Quote from: FTMax on February 29, 2016, 07:25:14 PM

My city is full of churches, but right now I want to go to this Episcopalian one. Friends of my family go there so I'm familiar to them.

Not sure if they have any in your area, but check out an ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) church if they have one around. You might like it.

Quote from: AudreyMichelle on August 19, 2015, 11:28:24 PM
Hi, everyone. I just recently decided that I need to deal with the fact that I'm trans. I'm also a Christian. I have a real hard time reconciling these two especially when I feel like I'm abandoning who God created me to be. Can any of you share any words of wisdom on what it's like to come to terms with the fact you are trans as a Christian?

God is infallible right?
So he made you trans!

Quote from: FTMax on February 27, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
I've never had a lot of difficulty reconciling my faith and my gender.

I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others. And if I am wrong? That's fine - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, and IMO that's what's most important and what Christ wanted from all of us.

God bless you for this wonderful post.

When it comes to being transgender and Christian, the first thing I must realize is that it is not a salvation issue.  Me being transgender, or transitioning will not affect my salvation.  The book of John is full of verses stating how one must become saved, and "not being transgender" isn't in there.  After this has been established, I see to it that I try to live as a man following Biblical principles throughout my daily life.  It doesn't happen that way all the time, but I'm trying.

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 27, 2016, 01:16:24 AM
How many people know about transgender clergy? May I ask your denomination and your gender identity, please?

I know you were addressing metanoia, but I am United Church of Christ, identify as female (AMAB), am pastor of a church in Evanston IL, and will be ordained in Yorkville IL in June.

Half my family is Catholic (Irish) so I had a lot of input from that as a kid, went to church with my grandparents, went to a church school, etc. The other half is atheist. When the parents divorced, I ended up with the atheists. It makes me wonder how I would have reconciled this whole thing had I been surrounded by religious people.

When I was about 7 or 8 I tried to "converse" with this god they all believed in. Since he never seemed to give any sort of answer I decided Catholicism wasn't for me. But, the weird thing was I didn't have a whole lot of guilt from any of it, since I figured human beings are quite powerless compared to god. When I was really young I remember rationalizing that if god made everything and he was all powerful, then everything in the world is as he intended. All the bad as well as the good. So I'm pretty sure I'd have believed trans people were endorsed by god because he allows them to be born. All the earthly hysteria over it is the handiwork of foolish mortals.