Quote from: kwala on February 13, 2016, 10:58:03 PM
Another quick update.  Still not quite loud enough and very breathy, but for now I'll take it!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0lq2xELIbiV

I also made a praat recording today that came in with an average of 270hz, so if this healing continues I may have seen a gain of around 100hz.

Your voice sounds pretty good! And yes, it does sound breathy, but my question is... how long can you talk? Can you talk for a couple of hours without tiring or can you talk for just a few minutes and then need to rest?

Kwala:

That clip sounded so much better. I am glad you posted it and am utterly thrilled for you. The loudness issue aside, the gain is really good and I am impressed by your overall tone. Unquestionably feminine. Big smiles. hug's and I'm doing a happy dance for you! Woo-hoo.

It is challenging having the voice be a kind of moving target on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis, in your case things are resolving in a positive manner. Again, absolutely happy for you and hope your recovery hastens its pace.

Be safe
Elaine'

Quote from: GeekGirl on February 15, 2016, 12:41:52 PM
Your voice sounds pretty good! And yes, it does sound breathy, but my question is... how long can you talk? Can you talk for a couple of hours without tiring or can you talk for just a few minutes and then need to rest?

At the moment, I can talk at a very low volume pretty consistently without much trouble or need to rest for fear of it giving out.  So, for example if I'm in the car with one other person and the radio is off, I can get by just fine.  Where there is an issue is if I'm in a group situation and/or there is background noise (people talking, television on, traffic, etc) and I try to raise my voice it gets very husky, the double  pitch returns, and I'll have moments where it just gives out and there is no sound.  Another observation is that it seems to be the worst in the mornings and range and clarity increase gradually throughout the day with the best sounds happening at night.  In my emails with Dr. Haben, he said that in terms of granulation some people experience a sudden change almost overnight while others experience a slow, gradual return and it looks like the latter will be the case for me.

Elaine, thanks for your comments and encouragement.  Not out of the woods yet, but at least I'm starting to see the pathway  .

Your voice has improved so much Kwala, sounds very feminine! Yes, it's still breathy but that'll get better eventually. My voice also sounds worst in the morning and gets better throughout the day. I think it's because while we sleep, we don't drink water for 8-9 hours so the vocal cords are not hydrated well when we wake up in the morning. My voice still sounds breathy most of the time, Dr. Haben told me it could take 6 months or even longer so I'm still hopeful that my voice will gain the clarity and volume that I so desperately need for my wedding photography career. Like you, I feel pitch increase is secondary at this point, the most important things for me are volume and clarity. 

^Thanks, Jolly.  Fingers still crossed for the both of us!

Well, I have some pretty bad news.  I went in for another scope today to check on the progress of the granulation tissue since I'm very near the 6 month mark.  The granulation tissue is gone (or mostly gone) so the question remains: why do I still sound like garbage?  Well, according to Doctor Haben's review of the video I sent him, the web is too large and he recommended another surgery.  However, going back under the knife (laser) could mean another round of granulation tissue all over again, which is the cause of the web "over-fusing" in the first place.  He says there is a chance that it could still improve on its own (I don't really see how and don't know the odds).  I simply don't have the vacation time to take another month off of work, not to mention the funds and I don't feel confident that this won't just restart the whole cycle all over again.  Basically, I feel like I just paid around 6k to have my voice ruined and my life taken over.  This is without a doubt the worst decision I've ever made.  I'll have to make a decision eventually and will keep everyone posted.

I'm very sorry to hear Kwala, I was hoping that you can have a positive result, I can imagine how you're feeling at the moment. Stay strong! Your last recording was already a lot better than your earlier ones, maybe some more time healing will make your voice better?

First, a big hug!

I am very sorry to hear the bad news. I can totally understand your decision of not wanting to go under the knife again.

I remember when I tried to speak my first word at one month post op and nothing, exept air, came out. I was horrified and devastated! Then the slow progress that followed and the incertainty over whether or not I will be able to speak with a clear voice was absolutely horrible!

I would say give it anothzr 3 months or so and see how things turn out. You never know, hun. I'll  keep my fingers crossed for you.

Hugs,

Rita

Thanks for the support.

I'm still waiting on a reply to some specific questions I asked Dr. Haben, but he basically said that in the total amount of patients on whom he has performed this surgery (he says 500) I am the only one who ended up with an over-developed web.  The web is the same size it was when I had it scoped in December and I brought up a concern with its size at that time, but my concerns were dismissed.   Not quite sure why it's so obvious now.  Common sense is saying to "wait it out and see" but that's what I've been doing for the past 5 and a half months and my gut is telling me that something is very wrong and intervention is necessary to correct it.  We'll see.  If only I could go back in time lol.

The recovery for the web repair may not be as much as the original surgery because I suspect the procedure won't be as extensive. The cords are already fused so this would be an adjustment instead of a restructuring. I don't know if more time would allow it to correct it's self but it's not urgent so you can take your time deciding and see if the surgery corrects it's self.

Quote from: Dena on March 17, 2016, 10:30:03 PM
The recovery for the web repair may not be as much as the original surgery because I suspect the procedure won't be as extensive. The cords are already fused so this would be an adjustment instead of a restructuring. I don't know if more time would allow it to correct it's self but it's not urgent so you can take your time deciding and see if the surgery corrects it's self.

I also don't know if more time will somehow allow things to work out, but I asked very specifically how this might occur since Dr. Haben mentioned it as a possibility and I am still awaiting a response.  It does seem like this surgery would be far less extensive and should mean less healing time, but based on the last surgery, we know for sure that my body tends to overreact in terms of healing so it's not a given.  After five and a half months, fixing this mess and being able to converse in public is most definitely an urgent issue to me. 

For many post-voice surgery patients, there is often implied and explicit concern over speaking, even in whisper, coughing, etc. I assume this is because there *could* be some issue with sutures, and therefore potential complication. Is this specifically dealt with pre and post op by surgeons? It might have been mentioned, more than once in the various threads, but I don't recall, yet for someone like me who hasn't had a consult, Im just wondering. If its a major concern, I wonder why there wouldn't be some additional medicine, like xanax, that might relax the muscles/patient?

Curious...

You are trying to fuse two cords and movement between them could keep them from fusing. In addition the suture can come undone allowing the cords to separate. Dr Haben says control what you can and don't worry about what you can't but I didn't want a revision surgery and I wanted all the pitch gain I could get so I was very careful to avoid all noise. As for medication, I don't know of anything that would just relax just the vocal cords.

Quote from: shelleyg on March 30, 2016, 05:42:07 PM
For many post-voice surgery patients, there is often implied and explicit concern over speaking, even in whisper, coughing, etc. I assume this is because there *could* be some issue with sutures, and therefore potential complication. Is this specifically dealt with pre and post op by surgeons? It might have been mentioned, more than once in the various threads, but I don't recall, yet for someone like me who hasn't had a consult, Im just wondering. If its a major concern, I wonder why there wouldn't be some additional medicine, like xanax, that might relax the muscles/patient?

Curious...

Dr. Haben has easy to follow guidelines for post-op recovery that include no speaking(not even whispering or mouthing words) for a week, avoiding acidic food and drink, avoiding coughs and sneezes as much as possible, and provides one week of steroids and a month of prilosec for acid reflux control.  Oh, and obviously, no smoking.  In my case I can say that I took great care in following the instructions.  I know that my sutures held for at least 7 weeks because that was when i coughed a portion of them up.  For whatever reason, the web that resulted ended up being too large which is sort of the opposite of what you mentioned.  But your theory is correct: speaking too early can rip or loosen the sutures and cause the vocal folds to move apart and not fuse together as intended.

Dena, botox relaxes the vocal cords and it could be one of the reasons that Dr. Kim often injects it in his patients.  I'm sure one of them could clarify.

Edited to add:
Since it's been a few weeks I thought I'd share another update on how my voice is sounding and the current dilemmas I'm facing.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0HNPcQSdjUJ

I have been slow to regain the volume but at about 7 months I have a fair amount of volume back without my voice breaking. As I am using a trained voice, I don't expect it to reach the volume of my male voice but most of the time I am fine as long as my mom is wearing her hearing aids.

As for Botox, it's a neurotoxin that paralyzes rather than relaxes and it has to be injected into the area where it's needed.  The effects last several months so I think Dr Kim is targeting bad speech habits with a chemical solution instead of therapy. My speech therapist was an expert in treating those conditions with therapy alone and I am not sure just how effective Botox is in correcting problems like that.

In regards to Botox, Dr. Kim did say that it was just to help me in terms of speaking properly and it wasn't a panacea or anything.  In all the videos he showed me, the tremor almost disappeared when I was increasing tension on my vocal cords, but was rather bad at lower frequencies.  I admit I don't fully understand how to potentially train myself out of speaking in a bad way so I don't end up with the tremor again, though.  It's something I'll be asking for more advice on at my one week checkup.

For the most part, voice problems are the result of speaking to high, to low or to loud. A properly trained voice is not a case of to high unless the voice is force beyond it's limits. My speech therapist taught me how to listen to voice so I could tell if a person was abusing their voice and also how to fix the problem. As my voice wasn't trainable in the feminine range, I guess an education about speech therapy was worth the money I paid.

Quote from: Dena on March 30, 2016, 08:32:25 PM
You are trying to fuse two cords and movement between them could keep them from fusing. In addition the suture can come undone allowing the cords to separate. Dr Haben says control what you can and don't worry about what you can't but I didn't want a revision surgery and I wanted all the pitch gain I could get so I was very careful to avoid all noise. As for medication, I don't know of anything that would just relax just the vocal cords.

Thank you!

That makes so much sense. I was thinking about Botox too. I know a little about this for another issue, Gastroparesis. Its used here to *quiet* down some muscle activity, that results in making patients nauseous. Its not permanent, and typically looses efficacy by 1 year.

Haven't updated this thread in over a month, but it's time.  I had a second operation yesterday where Dr. Haben decreased the size of my web, which had grown well beyond the 50% mark, leaving the active portion of my cords too short to function well.  I am allowed to start slowly speaking this morning and it's still extremely hoarse (as to be expected) but sounds are coming out so that's a good sign.  Leaving for my post op check in about an hour and crossing my fingers this can get my voice back on track.

Good luck, Kwala. *crosses fingers* I hope you'll be sorted out soon!