I don't understand why people in America (and maybe other countries) are so obsessed with grammar. They seem to equate it to intelligence for some reason but I notice the opposite. Most "genius category" people I know (two people with Savant syndrome, and two more who are physically disabled) have very poor communication skills but are extremely skilled in other fields. All the doctors I have worked for writing is so bad I had to have them dictate their notes for me.

As a disabled American (with a neurological condition and slight Savant syndrome) people would often call me stupid for having bad grammar and then praise me for my high IQ, extensive medical knowledge, and skill in the arts. I just don't understand it, is it some form of ableism?

I think for most people they probably do point out people's grammar mistakes because they think the person may be 'dumb' as in lower class so think they don't know any better thus they feel superior or because they think they're helping by correcting someone's mistake; which can obviously make some people anxious as they may have dyslexia. In some others I believe it's because they think it may be the beginning of people not caring about language and not having enough respect for it.
In a few minor cases it could also be down to ableism; as you still have people who don't understand dyslexia and don't understand how difficult it is to live with.

Quote from: Elis on May 06, 2016, 04:11:51 PM
I think for most people they probably do point out peoples grammar mistakes because they think the person may be 'dumb' as in lower class so think they don't know any better thus they feel superior or because they think they're helping by correcting someone's mistake; which can obviously make some people anxious as they may have dyslexia. In some others I believe it's because they think it may be the beginning of people not caring about language and not having enough respect for it.
In a few minor cases it could also be down to ableism; as you still have people who don't understand dyslexia and don't understand how difficult it is living with it.

There, they're, their, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be!    <running away>

Some people do it because they are anal retentives... a single apostrophe or letter drives them into a furious rage.

Generally though it's because it makes it easier to understand what the person is writing about and trying to say. Spelling and grammar were developed so that everyone could be on the same page. It doesn't help that the spelling rules in English are pretty screwed up but it's the language we've got to work with.

Quote from: Elis on May 06, 2016, 04:11:51 PM
they think it may be the beginning of people not caring about language and not having enough respect for it.

I guess to be honest, on top of having no natural grammar skills I have never understood why it is considered important at all (and by extension you could say I don't care about it, though I do find language theory fascinating).

Language is constantly evolving and changing and forming subcategories of language. Someone at some point spelled "the" as "teh" which would be considered a spelling mistake in English but now it is used regularly in L33t speak. The brain is also a a limited resource it can only process and hold so much information, so why waste its potential on something so arbitrary. To me as long as you can understand someone, why does it matter if something is capitalized, is a run-on sentence or had an i before the e. I'm beginning to think it just one of those thing about being human that I don't understand (like small talk or why people want copper colored cars)

I don't think anyone is less intelligent because of their spelling or grammar. It's just a lapse in communication, which isn't necessarily connected to IQ. There are a lot of other possible causes behind it, such as disability. The reason I am a "grammar Nazi" is because communication is one of the foundations behind a strong society. I'm not blaming anyone. I just think it's important to get your message across without confusion. Words have meaning that our societies have assigned them and using them incorrectly skews the message. This also affects the speed that the reader can grasp the meaning behind the message. You may not want to spend much time thinking about your writing, but fewer people will be willing to read it because of that. I'm not perfect either, but it's still not something that should be ignored.

Quote from: CrazyCatMan on May 06, 2016, 04:35:29 PMI have never understood why it is considered important at all

I know not to comment on people's spelling or grammar on a forum.  But I have lost count of the number of times I have read a post and wondered what the heck they were talking about, just because the poor spelling, grammar or punctuation obscured the meaning. 

There's one forum where I really enjoy answering people's questions.  But every so often, I get one where the grammar is so bad that I just give up and let someone else try, because I have no idea what they are trying to say.

So, the importance to me is that it gives clarity.

Quote from: KathyLauren on May 06, 2016, 05:04:17 PM
I know not to comment on people's spelling or grammar on a forum.  But I have lost count of the number of times I have read a post and wondered what the heck they were talking about, just because the poor spelling, grammar or punctuation obscured the meaning. 

There's one forum where I really enjoy answering people's questions.  But every so often, I get one where the grammar is so bad that I just give up and let someone else try, because I have no idea what they are trying to say.

So, the importance to me is that it gives clarity.

I'm not really talking about totally unintelligible writing, people can read most of the stuff I write but still complain about little things (for the most part)  There are aspects of grammar you can easily tell by content.  There, they're, and  their can easily be told by context. I know Indiana is a state even if it is not capitalized.  I can tell that you mean can't even when it is spelled cant. things like that.

Does one mean English or American Hinglish ? When I first encountered the in'ernet , I thought it was called the in'ernet. It was only later I found the missing " T "

Being well dyslexic spelling is not my Raison d'être and my grammar died years ago. She was a lovely person...

Paula, X.

As far as Doctors having bad handwriting; I think it has more to do with writing extremely fast and using a combination of acronyms/symbols/abbreviations. And for the grammar and spelling obsession we seem to have in the USA; that's just how we roll 🇺🇸

Personally, I've learned to let it go and let my nervous twitch happen without going to the keyboard. 

Admittedly, if somebody claims to be the smartest in the discussion without using proper grammar, I'll treat that as an invitation to help them out.   

I have a confession. I am a grammar Nazi.   
I have watched for years as the art of correct, concise, properly worded communication has turned into something unnecessary at worst and optional at best. I cringe when people like newsreaders use malapropisms and butcher what used to be commonly understood phrases and prepositions for the wrong purpose. I don't fly into a rage about it, I just shake my head as our language is diluted more and more by the careless and apathetic.
I often wondered if were possible to write a great work of fiction using only the most basic of words - and I think it is - but without the nuance and specificity of some of the less common words it would be very wordy and still may not convey exactly the author's intent. These days anyone can have a bash at being a writer, and we're flooded with crap. People in the BUSINESS of communication should at the very least (imho) be conversant with their tools. Signwriters, songwriters, politicians, newsreaders, teachers etc etc should not make basic grammatical and spelling/pronunciation errors. 
For me it's a little like watching someone cut a tomato with the knife upside down, it works, but I dislike the mess it leaves behind. 

PS Aussie here... we're terrible at grammar by and large  ( buy in large?)

When I'm reading, I do appreciate proper grammar. Sometimes I can't understand what people mean to say. Usually I can. I don't point out mistakes, however. I am dyslexic... sometimes I type lesdyxic because that's what I see. But it is also sort of a funny pun.

I understand that I post a stupid grammar bomb more often than I'd like. So who am I to criticize?

It's kind of a mix of ableism and I suppose the fact that in school people correct each other's grammar and so it seems sort of the done thing? I mean it's learned behaviour from adults that correct us while we're growing up. The strange thing is that it's hard for dyslexic people to always write clearly, but it's also hard to read when others don't do it. Just can't win!

i'm a fan of the stylised grammar that the internet often uses tho, because i spend too much time on tumblr i suppose, and a lot of the humor there seems to rely on run-on sentences and pur poseful typoes to indicate EMOTiON and ExitTEMENT... and ending a text message with a full stop means you're angry so i never do that either haha

and yet e.e. cummings - maddening. I struggled for a long time with Cormac McCarthy not using punctuation for dialogue, and doing stuff like capitalising some things (like American, Mexican) but not others (english, or spanish) too

Also if i see a typo or a misplaced comma on something in print, like a sign or a leaflet - especially if it comes from a university or a political party - it does annoy me because it means someone hasn't proofread, and i think that's bad design. unprofessional lol

the thing that irritates me the most is things like 'from the 1960's' or 'throughout the 1870's'... no, no apostrophe... it's a plural (a group of years) not something that belongs to the years... this is because i had a history teacher that was enraged by this too, and she must have had a big impact on me P:

Language does evolve though - 300 years ago every noun was capitalised. Nowadays that just looks really strange

In the case of my wife, she was a proofreader for a printing company.  Misspelled words and bad grammar drive her crazy.

While I don't live in America I guess I could be categorized as one of the obsessed. When I correct someone I care for, it's usually because I see he is struggling to coherently express something he very much wants to convey and I want to make it easier in the future. At work I also do need to prevent situations where wrong action may be taken due to miscommunication. I've more than once seen something redone from scratch because of poorly worded instructions.

I also get rather confused when people seem to be vehement about something but seem to be saying something completely different than their attitudes/body language express. An example would be when someone dismisses something with an "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less." After a few exposures I did come to understand that the speaker didn't mean what he said—but the mutated expression still confuses me. Why say something confusing rather than use an expression that is clear and unambiguous?

Both as a child and later when acquiring new languages I myself always liked non-judgmental corrective feedback. I saw and still see the corrections to indicate the person I speak with cares enough about me to make an effort to help me. My own motivation is based on that personal experience and preference. That said, if someone I correct clearly doesn't like it I usually desist, unless the communication is work-related.

When I went to school proper spelling and grammar were very important.  That was even the case when I was in college.

I have reviewed, edited and proof read many scientific reports and manuscripts. I have also done freelance editing and proof reading. Being a grammar Nazi is critical for those tasks. Poor writing annoys me but I do try to keep my opinions to myself unless a person asks for it.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I don't mind grammar and spelling as much as I used to. I used to be a crazy person who would correct even the slightest bit on spelling. But my grammar is atrocious, so I do not regard it so much, but the thing is I do not like that some people would shorten or abbreviate every word in there sentence. As an example of " r u 4 real" when I correct someone in a manner that they do not need to rush and think everything is a text and they want to send it yesterday.

But that's just my view on the matter.

Kate <3

Quote from: mac1 on May 06, 2016, 08:28:27 PM
When I went to school proper spelling and grammar were very important.  That was even the case when I was in college.

I always found schools particularly colleges demands for perfect grammar/communication skills often used a excuse discrimination against people with learning disabilities. When I was in school teachers told me I stupid and inferior to my fellow student because I couldn't spell, I was often told I was worthless and wound never amount to anything (disability protection was not very good back then so I hope kids don't get told this anymore) I was rejected from a few colleges for have sub-par verbal communication skills (not being able to speak a second language) and refused accommodation even with my neurologist said he was willing to claim under oath that I had a medical condition that caused my learning disability and that I should receive accommodation. (on the bright side I found a school happy to except me and graduated at the top of my class) It makes me sad to think my non-verbal cousin will never get excepted into higher education, she will most likely not live old enough to go to college but it would be nice to think she actually had a chance.