CAUTION: Please be respectful of others.

I wish to be respectful of all others. AND; this statement bothers me. A lot.

If you are not Trans. then what are you doing here?

That's basically how I would sum it up.
If you don't want to consider yourself one of us then why are you involved with the trans. community.
Or if you do, then stop saying that.

If you want to ignore your past, No matter how much it will never have not-existed, then fine.

Do it on your own time though.

That throws a lot in peoples faces.

I hear this mostly from trans. women.

Think about the guys. How does this make them feel?

They don't have a thing. They may never.

There won't any of us be able to have kids if we get surgery.

We will never be the same as our bio born equivilants, and some of us know that.

This is very frustrating, because it says that all that you need to be a woman is to have surgery. This is blatently untrue.
Being a woman is so much more than that. So much more than just the organs on ones body.

This statement says that anyone who has not had surgery is not a woman, wheras someone who has completed IS.

This is not true. And if you want to assert that it is OR that you are "no longer trans." because you have had surgery...$#%@!%(.

That's how I feel.

Oh, so I'm not a woman, I'm Trans.? Because I have not had surgery?
But you are, because you have, and you are not Trans.

No.

I don't buy it.

And I think its extremely disrespectful to others.

Think about how that makes the rest of us feel.

Besides, its just not true either.
Being a woman does not depend on one's body

That's my opinion, but I may be incorrect.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone, but that's how it comes accross to me.
IT seems disrespectful to me.

Thank you for your time.

Sara.


P.S.
Everyone please try to be as respectful as you can be when posting your responses to this. I have a feeling this might get heated. That is not my intention But it is important to lay the ground rules for this. Please be respectful of yourself and others when responding. Thank you.

EDIT : I may be completely misunderstanding the meaning of people who say this.
But I do think it is important that if this is so, that still, I mention how this statement comes across. -Thank you! Sara
EDIT: EDited the title to be more clear

Greetings,

I would like to add a couple of things here...

A lot of people don't identify as trans, they identify as the gender they feel they should have been born as at birth. Transition should be a temporary phase on the path to becoming one's true self...it is not supposed to be the ultimate stopping ground...but just one part of the journey. You basically, in my case: male -> transition -> female...and this is only to bring the body into alignment with what the mind already is.

Now, after transitioning people start to move on with their lives and live it in their new gender and truly only want to be accepted as their new gender. Some wish to forget the previous part of their lives as it caused them much pain and problems...can't say that I blame them one bit. I personally do not see myself as a transwoman or tgirl or whatever label people wish to place on us at times...I am a woman plan and simple...

What I am trying to get at is that it's not uncommon for people to only what to be known in their new gender and not identify as trans...for the trans part is truly only supposed to be a temporary stopping point on our journey of life.

Just my 2 cents...

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

Sara,
  I don't think anyone who has said that phrase, I admit I have said it a lot, means to be disrespectful to anyone else. I know I use it for my self. This is who I am and I know that for some it may not be possible. I use it for my own ego, and I'm not trying to put anyone else down for using the phrase. This is how I feel now. I know I will always be trans and that part of me will never go away, but I try to boost my ego up to say that I'm now a woman. People have said that to me a lot of times. They have said why do go on with the gender identity groups, you are a female now so go on with your life. I have said that if I can help in anyway that I can to make life better for others I will. I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but I will do what I can to make the changes for trans people better. I do understand how you feel and if it makes life any better for all concern, I will not use that phrase on Susans again.
Sheila

I am going to add somthing here.

To say "I don't feel trans. anymore, just a woman" is actually a completely different statement.
To say that one does not identify as trans anymore for whatever reason, is fine.

However to say that being "trans" and being a "woman" are not compatible
(which is what the original statement says) is to throw a lot of issues in a lot of pwoples faces.

One way is saying that as a person, you no longer identify as a term.
The other is saying that "because you are a woman, you are no longer trans." and therefor that "being 'trans.' and being a woman are not compatible"

See what I mean?

EDIT:

I'm a woman too quite frankly, and that doesn't depend on me having surgery.
Izzie hasn't had an operation yet, is she not a woman?

And what about the Guys> Are they not men?

Yes they are.
So please be careful what, and how you say things.

Meanings can be easily misinterpreted, especially if the speach isn't accurate.
And nobody wants more confusion in the world than there already is.

Peace.
Sara

I think people have a right to call themselves and Identify as they wish pre or post transition.

Transition is a process, if people wish to remain Transsexual after that thats a choice, If people wish to identify as Men or Women again thats their choice.

Some people wish to forget their past and only want to move forward in the gender they have become, some wish to be open , I see nothing wrong with either.

If anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

Rebecca

Quote from: BCL on January 09, 2008, 10:33:56 PMIf anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

And I have the right to think they're self-absorbed jerks.

Quote from: BCL on January 09, 2008, 10:33:56 PMIf anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

It's not what they identify as, it's what saying that statement suggests of others.

Quote from: Sarah on January 09, 2008, 10:49:41 PM

Quote from: BCL on January 09, 2008, 10:33:56 PMIf anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

It's not what they identify as, it's what saying that statement suggests of others.

I understand what you are saying Sarah.  Anyone can identify as they like, its just some people want to make another feel less than.  Enuf said.

Quote from: Annie Social on January 09, 2008, 10:45:50 PM

Quote from: BCL on January 09, 2008, 10:33:56 PMIf anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

And I have the right to think they're self-absorbed jerks.

Absolutely thats your right and your choice.

Quote from: BCL on January 09, 2008, 10:33:56 PM
I think people have a right to call themselves and Identify as they wish pre or post transition.

Transition is a process, if people wish to remain Transsexual after that thats a choice, If people wish to identify as Men or Women again thats their choice.

Some people wish to forget their past and only want to move forward in the gender they have become, some wish to be open , I see nothing wrong with either.

If anyone has the courage to go through this then IMHO they have the right to identify as they want.

Rebecca

uh huh.  i'm also a diabetic woman.  should i identify myself as "diabetes" instead of woman?  the term 'transsexual' needs to die in a fire.  it doesn't matter if you are pre, post, non, can't op or whatever. that's not what it's about...it's about "who" you are, not about "what you suffer from", capiche?

Ok, first off there are people posting here who are SO or just a supporter as well so being trans anything has nothing to do with the welcome mat here as far as my eyes see. Secondly, this is unfortunately a world of labels. If anyone has read other respnses you would know how much I despise labels. Geez, if we were to depend on labels to be named I would be known as freak of nature. Yes my body is intersexed and is mostly female though I was raised male and am now transitioning to my true gender, but I am really just a woman with enough courage to stop living the lie that she is male (as my family tried to force on me). That is it, nothing else fits me here, just woman. And no I have not had surgery or hormones or anything, just (luckily mind you) a natural body and mind. I had to stay away from here for a while some time ago because I was starting my transition and learning and easily fell into the trap of labelling because of what I was hearing others say on here. After some much needed soul searching and sorting out my beliefs on labels I was able to again return to hopefully help other people where I can. Labels are dangerous and segregates society. Just my opinion,
                                                  Kim   
       

Im with you on this Sarah.

Quote from: Natasha on January 09, 2008, 11:04:27 PM
uh huh.  i'm also a diabetic woman.  should i identify myself as "diabetes" instead of woman?

That sounds a bit silly, yes. On the other hand, it would be equally silly to go to a diabetes support forum (if there were such a thing) and state 'I'm not a diabetic, I'm a woman'. In that context, being diabetic could well be much more important than being a woman; similarly, over here one's transsexuality is at least as relevant as one's gender. But yes, I too consider the idea of having transsexual as a gender identity more than just a little odd.

  Nfr

Just to go to the other end of the spectrum here, But there is often a difference when this comes up. in some cases, like recently, a member left, and in her leaving topic, said she was no longer trans, and was going to get on with her life.... cool! good for her.
Well theres also how one identifies... do you, when you think of yourself, say i'm 'male/female/transgender?' if you want to identify yourself, as transgender, fine, as a transman or transwoman? fine. But i think people are allowed to identify as just men and women.
I am a girl. plain and simple. i'm not transitioning to become a transwoman... The reason i transitioned, was because i looked like a boy, but i was a girl, so that needed correcting sharpish...
Trans is something i had to go through, a birth defect....
My being IS is nothing to do with this. at the end of the day. ill still never be the same as my peers... but that doesn't matter...
in my view, people with gid are born transsexual...
they're x gender, in y body... once y=x then x² Cancels.... X is alone... you are that gender... sure, maybe not at a genetic level, and sure, no kids, but there are lots of women who cant have children for whatever reason, a woman with a hystorectomy will be on hrt, and have no periods or be able to give birth...
My mother had cervical cancer. and she had a hysterectomy, and massive surgery... shes on hrt, shes not got a uterus, infact, shes got about as much vagina  as a transwoman... does that make her less of a woman? hell no.
I do feel its a bit militant to say 'identify as trans or gtfo' because SOs are welcome on this forum... And i think that people who have successfully transitioned should stay if they wish, as it shows people just starting out that there is hope...
For some, Trans is a culture, a social group, a fun little club to be a member of, with your cool little decoder ring...
for some, its a problem, that they fix, and a lot move on to live happy, normal lives.
If you identify as trans, you are transgender, not transsexual, as the key part of therapists diagnostic criteria, and gid in general, is that the individual feels that they are x or y. not Tx or Ty.... Transsexuality is a physical condition. like any other  birth defects, ( point of contest i agree) when its cured it goes away, sure, it will never be the same as if it had never happened, but its gone away.
I'm preop, yet i still consider myself female. if im asked, i say it without thought. I'm a female in my deep subconscious, in dreams. i automatically refer to myself as female. not a transsexual female. but female. i don't care that my body is deformed (in my view) that will be fixed, and to a good enough extent that i can successfully move on, and live a normal life, leaving all this behind me....
this forum is a support forum, we don't need people telling each other how to think. just support each other while its needed. a transit camp of sorts. people come, and people go. There is no mandate for when one should leave, and nobody but the site administration can decide that. Because a person doesn't identify the same as you, is thier prerogative, not yours...

Quotethat leaves alot of space and opportunity for us to step up and show others how cute and sweet a girl personality really can be.

what? there is no reason why we should be any different to those admirable women, and bitches... there is no set requirement for transwomen to be 'cute and sweet...' i am female, not a stereotype. this hyperfemininity culture in the TS community is majorly unproductive, and quite sad really.
I do smell an element of jealousy around this topic... as its always the ones that aren't going post op and moving on who complain...
I will make one thing clear. I am a girl. a young woman. I am about as transitioned as i can get, without grs, something i simply cannot afford right now. I live an entirely trans free life off the internet. I study, i work, i socialize with my friends, i date. I AM WOMAN there is nothing T' about my personality, identity, or life, so i will thank you to live and let live.
R

I learned long ago that find a TS BB or a TG BB and you will find as much variety of opinion as you will find people posting. We tend to agree on some things, but hardly all, and even in agreement there is disagreement, or revised opinion at many points.

I really don't think another can always be accountable for 'how I feel and react.' There are lots of people who crush easily and lots of folks who do not. I believe that if we do not cast stones at others over how they identify or don't we have fewer problems.

But, that doesn't mean we will have none. Sometimes someone's thought that "I am a woman." Or "I am a man" will trigger a response from another that is not the INTENTION of the poster. Perhaps when I feel that way, that someone without naming me has stepped on my toes, I should just relax a bit and look at myself to discover why. It may be that as I am unsure, their surety makes me feel 'less than.' In that case: my problem that I need to find some self-peace to alleviate.

And then maybe I also need to realize that an 'in-your-face' post is simply meant as a way to build up the person making the post. That STILL says nothing about me. THEY will have to discover what makes them uncomfortable; I cannot force them to do so, nor can anyone else.

Our lives are journeys, folks. Most of us have come here with no clear sense, always, of 'who I am.' I imagine most if not all of us have gone through those phases. One of the grand 'gifts' of GID. A bit of understanding doesn't hurt me. Nor does trying to recall when I was just as unsure as anyone else might now be.

I never discovered my own comfort by either attacking or trying to model someone else's. But, it took some time to learn that and sometimes I have to remind myself of that still.

If poster Q wants to post a statement "I am NOT trans, I am _____." How does that harm me? Provided, of course, they don't also say, "But YOU, Nichole, are not." If I feel less than from reading that first statement, then I think what I have to do is find the reason inside myself, not in their post.

N~ 

Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.   Breathe/DSofM/Pink Floyd

Quote from: Natasha on January 09, 2008, 11:04:27 PM
uh huh.  i'm also a diabetic woman.  should i identify myself as "diabetes" instead of woman?  the term 'transsexual' needs to die in a fire.  it doesn't matter if you are pre, post, non, can't op or whatever. that's not what it's about...it's about "who" you are, not about "what you suffer from", capiche?

I agree, Natasha. To me, using the trans label indicates a stage in the process, or in case there's a need to distinguish between cis guys and trans guys, I'll use it. Otherwise I'm just a guy with an unusual medical history. I felt that I personally was finished with the transition part when I felt comfortable in my social role as male. I still need some surgeries, but the fact that they're different from other guys' surgeries doesn't really make a difference to my self-perception.

And, I'm not saying anything about anyone else's status or need to identify as trans or not trans. It's up to you to decide where you fit on the spectrum. And I remain on this board not because I identify as trans, but because I have that condition. To take Natasha's analogy further, if this was a diabetic forum, it wouldn't mean that my whole identity was defined as "diabetic". Rather, that I have that condition and that I share its particular medical issues with others who post. And, if my diabetes was stabilized, I wouldn't expect to leave the board until next time I had blood sugar issues (I'm not diabetic, simply using it as an example).

I'm splitting hairs, probably, about whether it's a primary identity or simply a condition you have and I don't think any of us who define ourselves as women or men deny that we have the medical condition, it's just that we don't primarily define ourselves by the medical condition.

My girlfriend was looking over the "Trans Men Rock" thread the other day and said "I don't love you because you're a trans man. You're just a guy. You're you. You probably do have some positive qualities because of what you've been through, but everyone's different and is shaped by their experiences".

Just my .02

Dennis

The diabetic argument is not the same.  I think its important for people with that problem to let others know, so that if something happens we can act in a correct manner.  Its not important for people to know you are/were trans.

Bob Dylan has a famous quote about doing a song where he said "It used to go like that, now it goes like this." That the new version is not the old version, does not change the old version.

That's true, Tekla, that is where the analogy fails, but as Natasha said, just because you have diabetes doesn't mean you identify primarily as diabetic. I'm certainly not advocating wearing Medic Alert bracelets that say "transsexual" 

Dennis

Dennis sums it up pretty well for me also.

I consider myself a woman with a transsexual condition.  Being transsexual is simply the medical term for the condition I have.  Just as I could also be a woman with a diabetic condition.

I never really identified myself as a "transsexual".  I've identified myself as a woman.  When I came out to myself, came out of denial, I finally admited to myself that I had a transsexual condition.

Even after the surgeries, I will still have the medical condition called transsexuality, but it will be in remission.

And this I think applies to all trans people, it isn't exclusively male or female.  I think Dennis also identifies himself this way, at least that is the way I read his post.  Dennis, if I've mis-read your post, please accept my appologies.

-Sandy (and I'm a damn PROUD woman!)