Being a trans man, I've heard plenty of tales about guys who, when they started to pass, were treated with more respect and taken more seriously. But I want to know what it's like on the other end of the spectrum as well. What did it feel like when you started to pass as female and lost your male privilege? Did people start taking you less seriously when you were no longer presenting as male? Did you realize you can no longer do some of the things you used to do when you were perceived as male? (Ex: no longer being able to walk home alone at night).

I've watched Kat Blaque's videos on "female privilege" and walking in the streets as a woman, but she's only one trans woman out of many. I'd like to hear more experiences about this.

I'm not quite full time yet but I don't want male privilege. I'm looking forward to enjoy what I've been missing and forget what I've been enjoying

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I didn't notice much change, but I normally work and socialise with women anyway. Most of the men I know (whether they are aware of me being trans or not) are very respectful towards me. I appreciate that isn't a common experience for many though.

It was truly a privilege I ever enjoyed, but was reminded what little bit was there was gone one time when My boyfriend reminded it wasn't safe for me to be out at night without someone. I suppose to an extent I do get talked over compared to guys saying certain things yet what I said had just as much merit possibly matched what guys said completely. It's not something I really worry about except for making sure I'm not alone after dark if I'm out at night although I was a target after dark before anyways. Hugs
Mariah

Well, it's kind of changed over time. Back when I first started transitioning, I was pretty nervous walking around at night. Now I don't really care for the most part. It's probably because I carry myself with confidence and pay attention to my surroundings, which I know are great ways to deter attackers.

On the other hand, there's a clear divide socially at work between the women and the men. Often times the guys will go out to lunch with the boss. It also feels like the guys don't need to work as hard as the women. I do feel like I at least get paid fairly though and I'm happy to be in the women's group.

Male privilege is really a bunch of little things that are difficult to notice unless you're a woman and experience the differences first hand. When I transitioned (and I'm sure this applies to most of us) I knew I wanted the full experience of womanhood. Warts and all.

This is a rather interesting subject

I am enjoying this topic too. I have felt the talked over part a whole lot or nobody will listen and that is presenting as a guy. I also feel like it will be really hard to get ahead as people might have an indication of something going on. Seems a lot easier to make the layoff list. I think being really tall does help with being able to walk almost anywhere at night but its not to rough here. Some places should be avoided no mater what sex you are though.

This subject kind of hits a nerve for me in a way since I never really had it to begin with and yet was subjected to a lot of the horribleness being assigned male comes with. From being beaten constantly by my peers at school to extreme levels of harassment from kindergarten all the way to highschool. It makes me cringe thinking back since I was technically a little girl being constantly bullied by the boys. To top it off I never had the strength level of males, despite T running through my system, nothing changed even when I started weight training and my attempt to become more athletic. People never really did talk over me though and people still don't (fully transitioned socially) I've always had a way with words, thanks to being naturally charismatic. So I didn't really see a change there. I think if I had started my adult life/my 20s without transitioning I probably would of benefited from being seen as "male" But my experiences with being assigned male, end in my adolescence since that's when I started transition. There was more heartache and pain than anything else. It's probably why I have an irrational fear of men and why I struggle to connect with them emotionally, dating wise.

I guess the only male privilege I got to experience was being allowed into "the boys club" but that always felt false to me. I always had to prove myself constantly to them and when puberty hit it became even worst, I had to pretend not to be disgusted with a lot of the things my friends during that time were saying about the girls at school. I can't tell you how many times I saw guys get away with terrible behavior just because of the "boys will be boys" mentality from the teachers and their parents.

On another note, even if trans women are seen by society as men (those that are in the closet or havent begun transition) their minds are still of the opposite sex so we still dont truly experience male privilege in the truest sense, its a distorted perception basically. We also don't truly benefit from it in the way cis men do, neither do we experience it in the same way since we're not actually men. The only people who have a true clear cut perception of these privileges are cis people who are often the most blind to it, which is no fault of theirs, its just the way society has been since forever. Trans men on the other hand do recognize it more but their experience of it is genuine, where as for a trans woman it isn't a true experience at all if that makes sense lol, im all over the place. There's a blog post I saw long ago that explains this in a much better way than I'm able to at the moment. If I find it, I'll paste it here.

Yes, people did start taking me less seriously.

OTOH, people were a lot nicer to me, didn't assume I was dangerous, etc.

On the whole I feel more privileged as a woman.

Same here. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 28, 2016, 05:12:38 AM
Yes, people did start taking me less seriously.

OTOH, people were a lot nicer to me, didn't assume I was dangerous, etc.

On the whole I feel more privileged as a woman.

Not out full time but form my experiences I didn't really notice any privilege I lost on the contrary people seem to be nicer to me when I present as female.

honestly, I never had it

Quote from: stephaniec on May 28, 2016, 09:07:56 AM
honestly, I never had it

I wanted to say that but was sure someone would take offense. Honestly, there isn't a lot of privilege in being an omega male and I, for one, never had the heart to do the things necessary to be an alpha or beta.

I haven't transitioned yet, but would like to chime in on the subject.  For the most part I have yet to experience many of the perceived benefits of male priveledge.  I dealt with being beaten up every day for 9 years because I wasn't as strong and athletic as other boys.  My sister's were always perceived as smarter than I because they did their homework and got good grades, while I goofed off and still aced exams.  I was expected to pay for everything whenever out on a date or in the presence of a woman.  Men are hyper competitive and I have been passed over for promotion to management 5 times because my boss won't promote another man who could challenge his dominance.  I'm expected to do any and all of the yard work, home repairs, car maintenance, business affairs, etc.  I don't get auto included in groups of guys because I don't fit the mold as a typical guy.  Meanwhile I am uncomfortable and ostracized from the women's groups because I am an outsider.  While male priveledge exists and many gain some advantages from it, it is hardly universal.

Most of my friends knew me before I started transitioning, so there really wasn't a big change there. I don't get out much either, so I don't get to gauge the reactions of too many outsiders. A good portion of the time, people still want to read me as male, so that also hasn't changed. I guess the only major change I have noticed with anyone else is that people don't value what I have to say as highly as before, but my words weren't valued too highly in the first place anyway.

There are always two sides.

Women are no longer afraid of me, and easily approach and touch me. They sit next to me in public buses or subway trains. When entering restaurants, woman workers greet me, even touching my shoulders.

I teach in a university, and students sometimes neglect my instructions, urging me to show my deep masculinity. Later students react that I am really masculine in contrast to my appearance.

Men try to help me when I park my car. Some male drivers in the road, once looking at my long hair, easily honk at me, assuming that I am a kind of poor driver as other women.

Above all, the eye stares from men, regardless of their age, are the most unenjoyable experience every day. Usually I avoid the stares, but sometimes I look at them to check whether they are some ones I know. Some of my male friends misunderstand it, thinking that I ignore them, but the others seem to figure it out why I avoid eye contacts with men.

barbie~~

As mentioned above, i think a lot of privilege is subtle things that add up over time. As a feminine presenting male, I always had a bit of an issue with fitting in with guys. I played tough sports etc and even after games, i always noticed guys were more standoffish, so i mainly hung out with women socially. A lot of men tried to socially pigeon hole me into categories etc.

What i did notice post-transition included:

1. In professional circles men tend to interrupt me more when i am speaking.
2. There is some "write-off" factor in interactions and problem solving with men as they assume my "emotional-ness" is influencing me. This is a subtle one and hard to articulate but i see it pretty often.
3. Physical - space. Guys tend to try and take up more space around themselves and afford me less space. This is sort of a privilege thing.
4. I'm a bit more careful where i go at night and what areas i hang out in, but not a lot. I was generally pretty good as far as that goes before transition.

I'm self-employed so much of my recent interactions are not with male bosses etc but clients. Generally guys are nice to me, i want to be clear on that. Women are generally nicer though and more social with me. There is a level of commonality there.

I really feel it switching these past days although as others mentioned I never really enjoyed male privileges, especially if an alpha man was around.

My social relations are very limited though, I don't work right now, but there is something in the eye of the men I speak to that changed. I feel that they desire me somehow, or what the heck is it me desiring them? hmmm  everything is very mixed up right now.

I was never attracted to men, their manners, their ways, their body... nothing (except maybe one little part of them but that was just in my mind, never really wanted to go see)

yesterday a service man came in our appartement and  was he ever hot

it's really not the same, not sure what's happening exactly

me, the others...  i feel I'm into the stir

we'll see 

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 28, 2016, 03:04:54 AM
From being beaten constantly by my peers at school to extreme levels of harassment from kindergarten all the way to highschool. It makes me cringe thinking back since I was technically a little girl being constantly bullied by the boys. To top it off I never had the strength level of males, despite T running through my system, nothing changed even when I started weight training and my attempt to become more athletic.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 28, 2016, 03:04:54 AM
I guess the only male privilege I got to experience was being allowed into "the boys club" but that always felt false to me. I always had to prove myself constantly to them and when puberty hit it became even worst

same here and I went on to deal with that for decades, myself

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 28, 2016, 03:04:54 AM
On another note, even if trans women are seen by society as men (those that are in the closet or havent begun transition) their minds are still of the opposite sex so we still dont truly experience male privilege in the truest sense, its a distorted perception basically. We also don't truly benefit from it in the way cis men do, neither do we experience it in the same way since we're not actually men. The only people who have a true clear cut perception of these privileges are cis people who are often the most blind to it, which is no fault of theirs, its just the way society has been since forever. Trans men on the other hand do recognize it more but their experience of it is genuine, where as for a trans woman it isn't a true experience at all if that makes sense lol, im all over the place. There's a blog post I saw long ago that explains this in a much better way than I'm able to at the moment. If I find it, I'll paste it here.

I think you explain it very well, I clearly see (what I hadn't realized before)

It is early days for me as I'm primarily viewed as male by others (mostly due to voice).

Benefits enjoyed as male
1. Invisibility - I was a ghost I could go anywhere and do anything nobody would ever remember me
2. Unnaturally strong - I was freakishly thin for limbs but my strength was way higher than my build would indicate
3. Safe - From benefits 1 & 2 I was very safe in any environment

Benefits enjoyed as female
1. Connection - Others light up when they see me and chat happily
2. Weakness - Other people do the heavy lifting at work and I feel less like a machine
3. Helpers - With a simple request for help people are happy to assist

Safety is a valid concern and I do think about it as my strength is less than a strong woman (my wife is now stronger than me).

The next bit is a little offtopic but important from my views on defense as a female.

1. If you can run...... run
2. If you can't run you have to kill or cripple your assailant fast then run.
3. If you can't run and can't get away claw, bite do as much damage as you can to their face to help them find the monster that killed you.

Wow that finished a bit heavy but yeah from my limited perspective without weapons or my freaky strength defense options are limited.