Hey y'all.

Post VFS I've been able to have a significant pitch increase. However, for reasons I'd rather not disclose, I need to stop HRT and am concerned with losing this pitch increase with T returning to my system.

Does anyone have experience with VFS and stopping HRT? Do you think that I'll be setting myself up for a drop in pitch? The last thing I want to do is to go back for a revision bc of HRT. :/

I e-mailed dr. Haben and he said that there would be a negative effect for stopping, and my endo has yet to respond to my question. What are your thoughts?

Audree

I would be horrified to loose access to HRT - I hope you have good reasons and can be ok with it.

The effects of loosing HRT without having had SRS will of course be that T increases and E decreases, it will affect your body shape, facial features, breasts, skin, hair, muscles, fat,.etc

It would only affect your voice if your voice was not already affected to the maximum before the surgery. Since you had a VFS , I assume your voice was fully changed because of T before already. VFS does not reverse the effects of T, it just sort of puts a patch on it - so more T will not do any irreversible harm. The vocal chords already have their maximum length, so that will not change. However if you have been on hormones for a long time or if you also too Spiro, there may be minor changes in your voice due to changed mass of the vocal chords, mainly due to water retention and maybe muscle changes. Those should be reversible though when you get access to HRT again.

Quote from: anjaq on May 30, 2016, 04:12:15 AM
I would be horrified to loose access to HRT - I hope you have good reasons and can be ok with it.

The effects of loosing HRT without having had SRS will of course be that T increases and E decreases, it will affect your body shape, facial features, breasts, skin, hair, muscles, fat,.etc

It would only affect your voice if your voice was not already affected to the maximum before the surgery. Since you had a VFS , I assume your voice was fully changed because of T before already. VFS does not reverse the effects of T, it just sort of puts a patch on it - so more T will not do any irreversible harm. The vocal chords already have their maximum length, so that will not change. However if you have been on hormones for a long time or if you also too Spiro, there may be minor changes in your voice due to changed mass of the vocal chords, mainly due to water retention and maybe muscle changes. Those should be reversible though when you get access to HRT again.

Ah, thanks Anjaq!!

My endo said that there would be very minor changes, just as you mentioned. I am 27, so prior to my VFS with Haben, I was definitely at the maximum length of vocal cords. I was just concerned about how my surgery could potentially have to be revised after stopping HRT altogether (Estrodial & Spiro).

Dr. Haben said that after 2 months, my voice would sound "notably" different, which concerned me. My endo seemed to disagree big time, but ... I really don't want to find out the hard way.

Did you happen to have any experience with this?

Audree

Quote from: audreelyn on June 01, 2016, 01:31:24 AM
My endo said that there would be very minor changes, just as you mentioned.

Minor changes to the voice yes - the changes to your body, I do not know. I would be horrified of such a situation. Have you developed an intolerance for hormone therapy or what is the cause of this?

QuoteDr. Haben said that after 2 months, my voice would sound "notably" different, which concerned me. My endo seemed to disagree big time, but ... I really don't want to find out the hard way.

Dr Haben said your voice would sound different after stopping HRT? Did he say that this would be permanent?

Hormone therapy usually does not change the voice at all, except maybe if Spiro is included, then it changes a little bit depending on the individual. So stopping hormones would also not change much regarding the voice...The sutures in the larynx should not change.

Why are you concerned about the voice change? Will you have to be off hormones for a longer time, will you still be  "fulltime"... ?

I think your situation is pretty rare, as few trans people go off hormones once they are far enough into transitioning that they did surgeries...

I'm still full time. And yes sutures and everything will still be there. Part of the reason is that I'm afraid of becoming sterile in case my partner and I want children that are ours... I don't want to be in trouble of not being able to produce. Now that I'm off hormones I'm confident in being a woman without having to take these pills. They are important, but womanhood is more than just the DNA or the chemicals in your blood.

My body had little change anyhow, like you said muscle and fat shifting, but really no growth of breast tissue. Almost no difference. I figure as long as I have surgery done, hrt isn't really necessary anyway. And now that i worry about losing my new voice, I'm concerned bc I would rather keep it as high pitched as possible.

Audree

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Hi Audree,

I agree with Anjaq and hope you really have good reasons to stop your HRT...

I am post op and on HRT for 10 years and I am still seeing changes on my body, skin and face which I am really happy about.
Anyways, hope you find answers and solutions to it.

Take care,
Brenda

Well -"no changes to my body" because of HRT can also come from a bad HRT. The more important questin though is what you need for yourself. If you feel comfortable in a body that is under male hormonal influence and develops in that way in the future, but you were hoping for hormones in addition to surgeries to make you "pass" better, then stopping HRT is a good idea. It is important to have the body one feels most comfortable with - no matter what other people think. If you feel your body is yours but need to be perceived as a woman by others, then there are less invasive methods than hormones or surgeries to live the way you determined to be the best for you without having to do too many changes to the body.
However if you just fee frustraded by an ineffective hormone therapy and would have liked that body to change more, becaus you feel not good in your body as it is now, then getting a better hormone therapy (in addition to freezing sperm for later) would have been the better choice.
It all depends on your needs and wants ..

Well, at least you don't need to worry about your voice reverting...

However, the body changes take a long time.  It's been about two decades for me and I changed a lot in the 2nd decade.   You can always freeze sperm, too, if worried...

Quote from: Denjin on June 01, 2016, 11:46:04 AM
Well, at least you don't need to worry about your voice reverting...

However, the body changes take a long time.  It's been about two decades for me and I changed a lot in the 2nd decade.   You can always freeze sperm, too, if worried...

Yes! Freezing sperm is what I did and it's a great solution.

Yes I plan on getting back on hrt in about two years or so, when my work contract expires, but right now I'm losing muscle mass at a considerable pace and I need muscular strength to perform tasks in a part time non civilian job, which includes something like a fitness test. I'm coming close to failing and if I fail that, I can lose my benefits and get fired.If I stay in until then, I can secure my career benefits, and get back on without jeopardizing potential scholarship and career money.

I had no idea that your voice could change after voice surgery if you stop HRT! This is quite interesting...

Quote from: jollyjoy on June 06, 2016, 11:04:34 AM
I had no idea that your voice could change after voice surgery if you stop HRT! This is quite interesting...

Yea true.

Right now all that has changed however is that my harshness of voice has smoothed out a bit and I sound clearer. No drop in pitch... I hope never, but let's see.

Of course this could stem from testosterone aiding in muscle growth factor or matter of time x healing. Who knows.

Audree

I wonder about one thing though, audreelyn - as I understand it the main reason for you to stop HRT is to get more testosterone going so that you can be physically more fit to do your job, right? If that is the case - why did you not just add the testosterone to your HRT? I do that - just maybe 1/10 of the dosage a man would take in order to help my body with some muscle strength. We check regularly that the blood levers are still within the female range, but even at that range, it seems to really help me. You probably could take even more T than that - without omitting the E. The E will then continue to feminize you and you can control how much T is enough to be physically fit but also not becoming too masculine again...

Oh and yes of course some T helps with vocal strength and the clear voice because the muscles are more powerful. I think getting rid of the T completely as some aim to do by using anitandrogens may sometimes be not the best idea. All women also have Testosterone - and actually the majority of women probably has more T than E in the body!

Quote from: anjaq on June 07, 2016, 06:07:08 AM
I wonder about one thing though, audreelyn - as I understand it the main reason for you to stop HRT is to get more testosterone going so that you can be physically more fit to do your job, right? If that is the case - why did you not just add the testosterone to your HRT? I do that - just maybe 1/10 of the dosage a man would take in order to help my body with some muscle strength. We check regularly that the blood levers are still within the female range, but even at that range, it seems to really help me. You probably could take even more T than that - without omitting the E. The E will then continue to feminize you and you can control how much T is enough to be physically fit but also not becoming too masculine again...

Oh and yes of course some T helps with vocal strength and the clear voice because the muscles are more powerful. I think getting rid of the T completely as some aim to do by using anitandrogens may sometimes be not the best idea. All women also have Testosterone - and actually the majority of women probably has more T than E in the body!

Very good point. So i wonder, does that mean simply taking less Spiro but not the full dose? Or taking estrogen without Spiro?

Audree

You absolutely can take Estrogen without Spiro! In fact maybe its the Spiro that causes you to loose physical fitness and not the low T. Many trans women do not use antiandrogens but only E and their testosterone levels are still in female range or slightly above. If you do not fear testosterone, just skip the spiro and see what happens. In fact you may even feminize more than with Spiro - Young women during late puberty actually have more testosterone than the usual "limits" for females in blood tests. And if your T still is too low, you can get T-Gel as a prescription drug.
I would recommend E as gel or patches though - the pills seem to have a bit more side effects on the health, but that seems to be a bit individual.

Quote from: anjaq on June 07, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
You absolutely can take Estrogen without Spiro! In fact maybe its the Spiro that causes you to loose physical fitness and not the low T. Many trans women do not use antiandrogens but only E and their testosterone levels are still in female range or slightly above. If you do not fear testosterone, just skip the spiro and see what happens. In fact you may even feminize more than with Spiro - Young women during late puberty actually have more testosterone than the usual "limits" for females in blood tests. And if your T still is too low, you can get T-Gel as a prescription drug.
I would recommend E as gel or patches though - the pills seem to have a bit more side effects on the health, but that seems to be a bit individual.

That sounds like good advice. I'm going to ask my endo about this before going forward... I wonder what may happen. I'll let you know what he says!!

Audree