Quote from: barbie on July 07, 2016, 06:50:36 PMBut remember that it is impossible to pass 100%.

For most of us  that is true, but not for all.  I have met a few over the years who can...

That said, what percentage of those that CAN pass 100%, even to other TSes, would chose to be out? I suspect not the majority, particularly among those that transitioned long ago.

- Karen

I transitioned at 51 and started hormones at 53 (I'm 58 now) so bones will be bones. At the beginning I wanted to get FFS but no more, too expensive and not mentaly necessary anymore so I rarely pass (damn kids, ha ha) but I dress very feminine and I am generaly quite self confident so most people... I mean women treat me nice just the same. Eventualy I realized I was getting the general public used to seeing a trans regularly, hoping it would help those who will follow because I live in a small town so I'm the only trans most people have ever seen yet in their lives. Cheers, Rose.

Quote from: Karen_A on July 07, 2016, 11:27:03 PM
For most of us  that is true, but not for all.  I have met a few over the years who can...

Yes. It may depend on the definition of 100% passing. At least, you know that those few are not genetic women, contracting 100% passing 

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on July 08, 2016, 01:48:08 PM
Yes. It may depend on the definition of 100% passing. At least, you know that those few are not genetic women, contracting 100% passing 

barbie~~

Someone outing themselves says nothing about their passability. I met them at a decades old support group and they transitioned many years ago.... they needed to periodically reconnect with others who have gone through this.

Let me ask you why are you so invested in believing that NO ONE can pass 100%? 

I am not trying to give anyone false hope... From what I've seem the majority of us don't get there and likely can't- and that includes me to be clear.

But I have been around a lot of years and seen a lot (my own transition was almost 20 years ago), and from what I've seen and experienced, I know some can. It takes time and some genetic luck for sure, but it does happen.

- Karen

Quote from: Karen_A on July 08, 2016, 10:15:00 PM

Someone outing themselves says nothing about their passability. I met them at a decades old support group and they transitioned many years ago.... they needed to periodically reconnect with others who have gone through this.

Let me ask you why are you so invested in believing that NO ONE can pass 100%? 

I am not trying to give anyone false hope... From what I've seem the majority of us don't get there and likely can't- and that includes me to be clear.

But I have been around a lot of years and seen a lot (my own transition was almost 20 years ago), and from what I've seen and experienced, I know some can. It takes time and some genetic luck for sure, but it does happen.

- Karen

Well, I thought I passed 100% of the time, because for two years I hadn't been clocked. In fact, quite a few people simply refused to believe me when I told them. Until one day I got clocked instantly and completely unexpectedly. Some guy just totally called me out. Now, I think some of it is luck and some of it is people not being paranoid enough to scrutinize my appearance, voice, etc. So maybe it was just my turn. However, maybe NOBODY can 'pass' 100% of the time. Or rather, maybe there is the potential for EVERYONE to get clocked, and if you don't then maybe it's luck. So if you never get clocked then maybe that doesn't mean it was impossible for you to be clocked. Consider that even cis-women are clocked sometimes, so whether the person clocking is right or wrong, anybody can suspect anybody. Even some in this community are guilty of this. Just something to think about.

Quote from: Ashey on July 08, 2016, 10:48:29 PM
However, maybe NOBODY can 'pass' 100% of the time. Or rather, maybe there is the potential for EVERYONE to get clocked, and if you don't then maybe it's luck.

I can understand why someone who thought they passed 100% of time and then got read, might think it's not possible for anybody... (it's certainly not for me)

But lives have been lived that that says otherwise... They are the minority (and likely a small minority of TSes - in my experience they ARE rare)

In terms of natal females being clocked, they don't STAY clocked when people interact with them... and that is the case for some TSes as well. If they don't stay clocked, i would argue they have not been at all.

Ironically at one time some  people hated me because I said I knew I could never pass 100% no matter what I did. They saw it as saying that  no one could , I think...  (they were saying just about anyone can if they tried hard enough), and I suspect some felt threatened by it.

But from what I've seen, those that say most can pass 100% if they just worked hard enough and have the right attitude (and/or surgeries), are mistaken just as as those that say no one can pass 100% are.

But I guess there is no point going round and round on this. What one thinks about his seems to depend on what one has seen and and those they have experienced, as well as their own experiences.

I guess my point is that the "playing field" is not level and we all have to do the best we can with the cards we have been dealt... and the hands vary quite a good bit and some are extreme in both directions.

- Karen

Given the number of ciswomen that are being 'clocked' as Trans and chased out of the ladies room by The Guardians Of The Loo, I'd say it is a safe bet that there's a degree of passing where one is no more likely to be 'read' as Trans than any ciswomen, and at that point self-confidence in the staredown is what wins.

So, yeah.  Keep Looking Fabulous, darling, and head up, shoulders back, always confident wins the day!

Quote from: Karen_A on July 08, 2016, 11:17:45 PM
I can understand why someone who thought they passed 100% of time and then got read, might think it's not possible for anybody... (it's certainly not for me)

You're making an assumption there. I'm merely posing a concept. If I believe that the ability to pass 100% of the time is improbable, it's simply because I try not to deal with absolutes. Do I believe that someone can pass well and never get clocked? I'm sure it happens. But saying that someone never gets clocked is not the same as saying it's impossible for them to be clocked. This is where it's more conceptual than anecdotal. And I should clarify my initial statement in my previous post... I did in fact pass 100% of the time (as far as I knew), until I didn't. If I had not come across that one guy that clocked me, then I could still say I pass 100% of the time. It's more probability than anything, and I think that instead of saying '100% passable' as an absolute based on anecdotal evidence, it'd be more accurate to say something like 'highest probability of passing'. I hope you get what I'm saying... It's like the difference between impossible and improbable. Just because something never happens, doesn't necessarily mean it can't. Because I'd say the only way for someone to absolutely pass as cis is for them to be cis... but then, like I said, even cis people get clocked...

In the end this is just splitting hairs. Does my being clocked by one person out of everybody else I've interacted with somehow damage or ruin my passability? No. It shook me up a lil, but I seem to pass just fine to virtually everyone I meet. So what does 100% passability even matter? You said if you don't stay clocked then it's like it never happened. I suppose if I hadn't been curious as to how he knew, I could have disputed it and shut him down, because his rationale was flimsy, and it was more suspicion than anything. If anything maybe I outed myself by confirming it. So by that logic, if I don't have any indisputable tells and should always be able to get out of being clocked, am I 100% passable? I just think what you're saying is more based on anecdotal evidence as I said. So just because you never get clocked doesn't mean you can't be.

Hi friends

Time to stop arguing over how often people pass or not and get back on topic

Thank you

V M

Having quite a stressful/anxious time with trying to even begin to transition or come out right now 
I'm still pre everything but I thought I got the dreaded eyeliner on point for the first time in this pic 

Is a forehead reduction possible with FFS? LOL 

Also the lighting and my cheekbones cast such a badly placed shadow on my face which makes it look like im trying to cover facial hair but I literally can't even grow any on the sides on my face in the places 

Quote from: Confetti on July 10, 2016, 02:47:05 PM
Is a forehead reduction possible with FFS? LOL 

As a matter of fact it is...  it's a big part of boney FFS work. That along with a scalp advance does the job.

- Karen

Looking good!   Great eyes, there.  (Fun with eyeliner is something I can't get the hang of.  But, it's not a big part of the look for us 60-somethings!)

Quote from: Karen_A on July 10, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
As a matter of fact it is...  it's a big part of boney FFS work. That along with a scalp advance does the job.

- Karen

Great news!   

Quote from: Michelle_P on July 10, 2016, 03:08:28 PM
Looking good!   Great eyes, there.  (Fun with eyeliner is something I can't get the hang of.  But, it's not a big part of the look for us 60-somethings!)

Thankyou!
It takes me so long and my hands shake so much! I guess practice is the only way to get used to it, i've got a long way to go lol!

Quote from: Roses and Songs on July 08, 2016, 09:36:00 AM



I transitioned at 51 and started hormones at 53 (I'm 58 now) so bones will be bones. At the beginning I wanted to get FFS but no more, too expensive and not mentaly necessary anymore so I rarely pass (damn kids, ha ha) but I dress very feminine and I am generaly quite self confident so most people... I mean women treat me nice just the same. Eventualy I realized I was getting the general public used to seeing a trans regularly, hoping it would help those who will follow because I live in a small town so I'm the only trans most people have ever seen yet in their lives. Cheers, Rose.

Sorry that you haven't received a reply until now. It's also happened to me when I've put my pic up on the 'do I pass' ftm board. Not sure if you want a mostly male person replying but I think you look gorgeous, I honestly wouldn't have thought you were mtf. Your hair colour suits you as well as the style. A shorter cut may be better but you really don't need ffs.

Quote from: Elis on July 11, 2016, 08:25:00 AM
Sorry that you haven't received a reply until now. It's also happened to me when I've put my pic up on the 'do I pass' ftm board. Not sure if you want a mostly male person replying but I think you look gorgeous, I honestly wouldn't have thought you were mtf. Your hair colour suits you as well as the style. A shorter cut may be better but you really don't need ffs.

   How nice, thank you so much. You obviously read my rant and since it happened to you too you know how it feels but I'm very fragile and sad these days, more than ever so I probably took it harder than I should have, still it hurts. In fact, I am pleasantly surprised that you're male, it's always only girls so I'm the lucky one this time. Thank you also for your opinion and for the compliments, I never get any so I really appreciate, you're very nice. So, thanks again for caring and take good care of yourself, Rose. XX

I went blonde, how does it look?

Quote from: roseyfox on July 11, 2016, 09:56:56 PM
I went blonde, how does it look?

All I see are broken links and no pictures...

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on July 11, 2016, 10:31:22 PM
All I see are broken links and no pictures...

They should be working now tried to use a different website for my images looks like it didn't work.

Quote from: roseyfox on July 11, 2016, 09:56:56 PM




I went blonde, how does it look?

I like the blonde!! I think it suits you well!!

I'd have to second the blonde, I once went blonde myself at one time. Was a pretty crazy time period I went to when my hair was super long. I guess now I'm just slowly going back to my natural hair color of brown with the slight streaks of hazelnut, greys, + whites in my hair. Hair is a girl's life, the hair tells many stories depending on how you wear or decorate it! <3

Took this about 2 years ago LOL.