Quote from: Deborah on July 27, 2016, 05:16:02 AM
Yes, all the badness comes back pretty quickly.  And it comes back worse than before.  Once you have glimpsed a life free of dysphoria, returning to it feels like a descent into hell.  And it's worse because you know exactly how you can climb back out at anytime you choose.  So the misery becomes self imposed.

I love the way you put that. It exactly describes how I feel, as my wife does not want me to use hormones. She's ok with me transitioning socially, but not medically. Since I can't live without her, I have to live with the "badness." I feel like a drug addict with my "Sister E," though, since I get cravings and feel like I need another hit. That's when dysphoria is very high and my thoughts go down a black hole for days/weeks.

I have been on hormones now nearly two weeks, on anti androgen and estrogen, I haven't noticed anything, not a thing lol
Iv always been very happy person and feel no different now. Happy knowing T is deminishing
:3

Quote from: IdontEven on July 27, 2016, 11:14:52 AM


Also, I'm so easily emotionally manipulated it's stupid. AND I KNOW IT'S HAPPENING, but it happens anyways. The cheesiest, most cliche-ridden, ham-handed action flick will cause some pretty serious feels. And romantic movies? Sheesh.

Still, it's fun. Most of the time

Yes yes, I agree with this this whole heartedly...I have to be aware that much of the mood swings I experience are driven by the HRT. I have had an issue with sensitivity to medications for many years which is why I ended up with this implanted device. I have low to no T in my system so am very susceptible to the vagaries of Estrogen...

Liz

I get euphoria when I get a new implant. It starts about 4 days afterwards, and occurs every time. When I first started I used to wonder if I was psychological, but not anymore. The long term effects are the usual no depression, etc.

Quote from: ChristineRachel on July 27, 2016, 12:05:59 PM
I have been on hormones now nearly two weeks, on anti androgen and estrogen, I haven't noticed anything, not a thing lol
Iv always been very happy person and feel no different now. Happy knowing T is deminishing
:3

That's how I felt for the first 2 weeks too (and I started with a transition dosage from the start).  I was confused, because I had heard so many people saying how they felt a difference within days or even hours.  It wasn't until almost 4 weeks that I started to feel different mentally.  And it was very, very subtle.  Even now, after 6 months it's not a dramatic change in my mental state.  Rather, it's an overall sense of well-being, peace, and hopefulness that I had not had before in my life.

One aspect which I do not think was covered (I admit I only read the first page), is that CIS women have T running through their systems and CIS men have E running through their systems.  All HRT does is reverse the dominant hormone respectively.  There are instances where a person's hormone level is closer to balanced or a CIS person may have a slightly higher level of the opposite hormone.  That is why a person (no matter desperate) should not take it upon their self to self-medicate or forgo the blood tests.

As for the "meat of the topic" I cannot answer as I am still pre-HRT.

One final aspect to remember is that everyone is different and treatments affect people differently as far what changes occur in the brain.  The physical changes will be the same throughout (some more prominent than others of course).

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on July 27, 2016, 05:31:29 PM
That's how I felt for the first 2 weeks too (and I started with a transition dosage from the start).  I was confused, because I had heard so many people saying how they felt a difference within days or even hours.  It wasn't until almost 4 weeks that I started to feel different mentally.  And it was very, very subtle.  Even now, after 6 months it's not a dramatic change in my mental state.  Rather, it's an overall sense of well-being, peace, and hopefulness that I had not had before in my life.

I will have to wait another couple of weeks then so,
I don't mind, i guess they are doing something, thats what counts

For me personally.. its a win.. depression, suicidal thoughts, All gone.. completely
I still have social anxiety.. but i am starting to have  emotions where there were none.. ( i was finally able to morn the passing of my grandparents which happened years ago..)

Having recently been told by my Nurse Practitioner that she is sending me for a psychiatric consult (boo hiss) prior to referring me to the endocrinologist had me feeling pretty desperate the other day, mostly because local wait times to see a psychiatrist can be lengthy (like 5 months + !)

My dysphoria is increasing by the day. I am getting some facial waxing tomorrow to help. I have heard some first person accounts about how HRT helps a lot with dysphoria and can't wait for that part of it.

I think the placebo effect is initially very dominant here. I am sure many of the girls are experiencing what they are saying when just starting HRT but I wonder how much of it is in our heads...I include myself in this as well. Just because you know about the placebo effect does not mean you won't be impacted by it.

The relief I gained from just swallowing the pills and knowing I am on my way was tremendous. The effects I have felt so far have been very subtle but there have been changes. I cannot differentiate between effects of the pills v placebo effects because it all feels the same. Don't be ashamed if you have been effected this way...placebo's have been used for many years with great results. The big difference is that we are not being given placebo's buit are experiencing effects way before when they physically occur in the body rather than in the mind. It will all come back into balance as the excitement wears  off and the meds are actually doing their thing.

So if you are experiencing a bit of the placebo effect just starting HRT...sit back relax and enjoy the ride. It is quite normal.

Liz :-)

Quote from: ElizabethK on July 28, 2016, 04:51:10 PM
I think the placebo effect is very dominant here. I am sure many of the girls are experiencing what they are saying when just starting HRT but I wonder how much of it is in our heads...I include myself in this as well. Just because you know about the placebo does not mean you won't be impacted by it.

I'm certain the euphoria I get is not placebo. I've been on HRT so long now its not a big deal anymore. It is an amazing feeling, just a shame it doesn't last.

I have tried just about every anti-depressant thru the years with high hopes and belief that they will work.. they only had a marginal effect at best.. I would have welcomed any sort of placebo affect.. as a last resort I went on HRT . and with in a few weeks the results were very dramatic for me. A year later the mental clarity i enjoy still impresses me.. It is not a cure all but i do not think a placebo affect would last this long or work this well.. and as always.. your milage may vary..

I'm not sure if you could feel hormones in your body,
but you will definitely notice changes when they start to happen. 

Personally, I took me some time to notice changes other than my breast growth. ~I stopped keeping track~
I recently noticed my legs were getting smoother, and arms where less dry when I finally decide to inspect myself.
according to my mother, my voice sounds different, that one took me by surprise.

I also realized that my feet feel much softer, and It's never felt so good to walk around without socks on.
which I rarely did before starting HRT.   

but honestly, I really feel no difference. or has my mind already adapted? 

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 28, 2016, 05:05:58 PM
I'm certain the euphoria I get is not placebo. I've been on HRT so long now its not a big deal anymore. It is an amazing feeling, just a shame it doesn't last.

Hi AnonyMs

I was really referring to people like myself who in the first month felt amazing just to be taking HRT and not so much long term HRT users such as yourself. On the small dose I was on and even as sensitive as I am to medications it was not enough to account for the way I was feeling. I was benefiting from the placebo effect for the first 8 weeks  until reaching where I am now on a full transitional dose and have been for 4 weeks. So I have less "excitement" and more an overall feeling of well being. I really am saying that having the placebo effect work for you is not a bad thing...it helped me. I am sure the affect has inadvertently helped others and I know I am too quick at dismissing the benefits.

Liz

Quote from: Sspar on July 28, 2016, 05:51:09 PM
I have tried just about every anti-depressant thru the years with high hopes and belief that they will work.. they only had a marginal effect at best.. I would have welcomed any sort of placebo affect.. as a last resort I went on HRT . and with in a few weeks the results were very dramatic for me. A year later the mental clarity i enjoy still impresses me.. It is not a cure all but i do not think a placebo affect would last this long or work this well.. and as always.. your milage may vary..

Agree absolutely, the placebo effect might help for the initial week or two but certainly not long term, if at all. Not everyone will experience it and those that do won't know.

Liz

There is an effect, which name I can't remember, where depression gets better when you take steps in the right direction. It's not placebo but something else. I think it's what you are talking about, and I've had it a few times. Possibly when I started HRT, but also a few years ago when I got seriously depressed and decided to see a doctor and therapist - I improved greatly just by that decision, and before I'd actually seen them. I was still pretty messed up though.

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 28, 2016, 11:41:09 PM
There is an effect, which name I can't remember, where depression gets better when you take steps in the right direction. It's not placebo but something else. I think it's what you are talking about, and I've had it a few times. Possibly when I started HRT, but also a few years ago when I got seriously depressed and decided to see a doctor and therapist - I improved greatly just by that decision, and before I'd actually seen them. I was still pretty messed up though.

Not sure what effect you mean but I am sure we are talking about the same thing. You feel better for simply having acted on something or gotten some kind of treatment. How many here took their first HRT dose and by the end of the first 24 hours would swear they were feeling better...heaps I would suspect...the human body is amazing.

Liz 

I'm sure there is a lot to the placebo effect because I was getting out of the dark place just by talking to the psychologist nearly three months before the first pill.  I think it was due to finally not feeling the intense need to bury myself and present the happy avatar to the world.  Then starting HRT magnified the effect. 

Also, from all I've read the effects of HRT on the body are well understood.  The actual effects on the mind are still a mystery.

Whatever the actual mechanism though, the effects on my mind are very real.

It is well known that the mind can actually affect the body.  If a patient is suffering from some physical condition, they will have a much higher rate and chance of recovery if they are optimistic and in good spirits, compared to a patient with the same condition who has a "I am doomed" outlook on their prognosis.

I think much the same applies to those who start HRT.  As has been said, some of the mental effects are a placebo-like effect.  Simply knowing that you are starting your medical transition through HRT can make you feel better, regardless of the immediate physiological changes.

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't really feel any mental effects until almost 4 weeks after I started HRT.  I think part of the reason is that I took a very skeptical approach.  At the time, I wasn't sure if I wanted to transition.  So I wanted to try HRT to see how it would affect me in an effort to provide some clarity.  I know that's probably not normal, and even a little dangerous, but I had access to HRT through informed consent, and my medical provider was ok with that, even though I clearly told her that this was a "trial" thing for me.

But even though it was a trial, I had complete blood work done and of course continue to go back for regular lab tests.  I also started seeing a gender therapist (and still do), but only AFTER I started HRT.  I hoped that speaking with a therapist would also provide some clarity on whether I should transition.

So you see, when I started HRT, I wasn't thinking "I can finally begin my transition, yay!".  No, my mindset was more of, "it probably won't do anything to me mentally, but I'll just keep an open mind and see what happens".

I think that's part of the reason why I didn't feel any mental effects from HRT until a month into it.

Of course, after I made the decision to transition, all my transsexual friends told me that they absolutely knew I was like them, but they didn't want to influence my decision by telling me.  They wanted me to come to the conclusion myself.  And with the benefit of hindsight, it seems really obvious to me too that transitioning was the right decision.  I guess I was the last one to figure it out, lol.

OP, I certainly had emotions in the first few days on estrogen - the feelings were a bit mixed because I wasn't sharing this with my GF at first, but the immediate relief was certainly palpable and I stopped writing it off as placebo within a week. I found I had rushes of emotion that I wouldn't have experienced before HRT.

Similar to what other's have said My breasts were quite sore by the first week and I could tell that they'd grown within 3 weeks which was a complete surprise - I'd dialed back my hopes so as not to be let down.

My first dreams that seemed dramatically affected by estrogen came in the second month.

Quote from: pj on July 27, 2016, 05:08:04 AM
- at 2 months on Spiro - i was much calmer
- at 11 days on E my nipples were sore
- at 4 weeks... (my E level was 388 and my T < 20)
   * I had definite breast development
...
   * It took two weeks for my system to "recover" and everything from above returned.

Quote from: Deborah on July 27, 2016, 05:16:02 AM
Yes, all the badness comes back pretty quickly.  And it comes back worse than before.  Once you have glimpsed a life free of dysphoria, returning to it feels like a descent into hell.  And it's worse because you know exactly how you can climb back out at anytime you choose.  So the misery becomes self imposed.

The only question I still have in my mind about proceeding to SRS is for the hit my libido has taken, which by 6 weeks had radically reduced. At 7 months I finally have some solid evidence that a more feminine aesthetic is replacing the T-driven thing. So at this point I don't know if I will want to stay with just HRT and occasionally go off estrogen.

I'll be trying that soon, I miss being able to ejaculate and the feminine response still has to express itself with my OEM equipment.

Even after SRS I may choose to cycle E - T. So far I haven't had any loss of strength and I've begun to get back to some athletic training. That will be important because I know exactly how my body performed on T - my pace on bike or running, how hard I could climb on rock etc and my art work is very physical so I need to have both strength and endurance. Hence I may yet choose to keep some T in my system after transition.

Against that, the biggest stress in my life is when I hit circumstances that I only know how to handle in my 'boy' mode. Conflict, being faced with aggression still happen. Now I can honestly say that while these things are still triggering, I'm also finding it far more easy to stay on the path that I've been on of being less confrontational, better at listening even when things are difficult.

If those things go back to being more difficult when cycling off of T and if my sexuality continues to move toward satisfying when on E, then I will probably have my answer - to proceed to SRS.

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on July 29, 2016, 12:56:03 PM
....
As I mentioned earlier, I didn't really feel any mental effects until almost 4 weeks after I started HRT.  I think part of the reason is that I took a very skeptical approach.  At the time, I wasn't sure if I wanted to transition.  So I wanted to try HRT to see how it would affect me in an effort to provide some clarity.  I know that's probably not normal, and even a little dangerous, but I had access to HRT through informed consent, and my medical provider was ok with that, even though I clearly told her that this was a "trial" thing for me.

But even though it was a trial, I had complete blood work done and of course continue to go back for regular lab tests.  I also started seeing a gender therapist (and still do), but only AFTER I started HRT.  I hoped that speaking with a therapist would also provide some clarity on whether I should transition.

So you see, when I started HRT, I wasn't thinking "I can finally begin my transition, yay!".  No, my mindset was more of, "it probably won't do anything to me mentally, but I'll just keep an open mind and see what happens".

I think that's part of the reason why I didn't feel any mental effects from HRT until a month into it.

Very much the same motivation and approach here. I had decided 20 years ago not to proceed to SRS and in my mind I never then considered HRT without SRS as an end-point. Last year when it was clear that back in therapy for depression for 2 years (I'd gone 15 relatively not depressed), my dysphoria needed to be listened to.

I began HRT entirely as an experiment, to see what happened to my emotional landscape. When I had un unexpected crying jag a week out I felt certain that estrogen was having effects I could see.

That said, it's taken all of 7 months to get to a point where I'm 99.9% sure transition is for the rest of my life - still on the fence as I say above about what 'transition' means, HRT, cycling HRT, SRS ... this all remains to be seen.

There's no question the emotional landscape has shifted and that I'm happier today as well as meeting challenges better than I did in the past.