I joined this community just over three weeks ago and in that short space of time, have found it inspirational, possibly life changing but time will tell on that one!

One theme that has recurred in my postings has been the challenges faced with my wife's acceptance of this and I have read a number of other posts where relationships have become toxic as a result of the revelations.  'I didn't want to marry a woman', 'do you want to sleep with men now', 'you're just doing this to get attention' and 'I'm off' being just some of the reactions I've experienced or seen posted here.  Yes, we do have a habit of springing this information on our spouses after years, if not decades of marriage but why can't they be more understanding and carry on as if nothing has happened?

What struck me was how things would be if the situation was reversed.  Let's assume for a moment that I'm a heterosexual guy (which I currently am) without any transgender leanings (which I'm currently not).  In other words, what society calls a normal straight guy.  Now my wife, who I still think is as lovely as the day I met her, sits me down and says 'I've got something to tell you' and proceeds to describe her gender struggles and how she yearns to become more male, possibly living part time or full time as a male with a possible end point of surgery.  How am I going to react?  I'm fine with gay people but it's not something I want to be myself; I always pictured myself growing old with my wife by my side and, in time, I'm going to have to explain to my friends what the situation with my wife is.  Clearly, we're all different and would react in different ways but, from my point of view, I don't think that this is an environment I'd feel comfortable in, particularly as the physical changes started and I don't think I'd take the news calmly.

Now I know that the genders are different and it is far more acceptable, and common, for women to enjoy a closeness that men don't but I do think that part of our journey has to be to understand how and why our spouses react and behave the way they do and to accept (to a point) that this hostility is part and parcel of the challenges we face.  After all, would we have married our wives if they had told us at the outset that they had always felt they were in the wrong gender?  Maybe yes, maybe no but it would have been a serious factor to consider.

I feel that this is an important lesson; I would certainly have approached things differently if I'd appreciated the implications before confessing to my wife a few years ago; I understand why she has felt the need to completely shut it out now; I forgive her for every hostile comment she made at the time I told her and now that I am getting to the point where the issue has to be reignited, I will be far more careful in the way I approach the discussions and be far more realistic in my expectations of the outcome.  Possibly, things may run more smoothly as a result.

Amanda

Everyone is different as are all marriages. The reasons for being in them and staying in them (when there are many other options) are also different. Which means that there is no standard operating procedure as to coming out to one's spouse or dealing with the change within a marriage/family.

Too often i think we make assumptions that people are like us. It is sort of a form of hubris that is part of the human condition. Marriages and people constantly change in subtle ways, and sometimes in not subtle ways

One thing that stood out on this post is empathy for your spouse and how life changes for them. That is really important. Kudos for the reminder.

I can say that in our instance, my spouse knew she married a feminine guy, but someone that back then identified as guy nonetheless and then rather suddenly i didn't anymore and began to transition. That made for loving but still trying times and soul-searching for both.

If the tables were turned, i would have incredible empathy for her because of my own gender journey. I can't even imagine being someone with rigid views on gender or sexual preference, so i can't speculate about being that sort of person. She never held those viewpoint rigidly either. The result was a re-formatting of our relationship not only helped us to not take one another for granted, but also allowed us to find new loving feelings for one another.

I'd also add that what third parties think of someone's marriage or journey, may be of importance but i would caution about putting too much importance in it. Too much of that makes our relationship dependent on others and it shouldn't be for many reasons.

Every loving relationship is a unique journey whether it is temporary or lasts a lifetime.

I was married for twenty odd years before I realised I wanted to be something other than a binary male. My wife liked my maleness. She likes smart suits and short hair. The cross dressing really turns her off. I got the "I'm not gay" thing quite a bit to begin with. I came out to her within a few months of discovering my new needs and that was in large part to ward off the accusations of hiding or dishonesty. I've always told my wife everything and I'm sure it helped her that I told her really quickly. Over the years she has become more accepting, quite supportive really. The problem I'm having now is that I'm struggling to get over some of her earlier reactions. At the back of my mind I think she is disgusted by me. She denies this and hides it well but sometimes I catch her with "that look" and she was open about the negative effect of my presentation on her attraction to me. Now I'm left feeling uncomfortable around her because I think she is acting as if everything is OK but it isn't. I feel even more uncomfortable in male mode though so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wonder if she only lets me stay because she doesn't want to admit to her friends why we split up. So there is some irony that as she seems to be coming to terms with me, I'm having a problem with her.

I have thought a lot about how I'd feel if things were the other way round. It is difficult to imagine as she is such a girly girl. I don't think I'd have coped as well as she has. I know I'd have no real problem with it now that I've had my own experience of this but I have little faith in my reaction beforehand. I give her a lot of credit for that. She has behaved impeccably towards me in as much as she has never threatened me, belittled me or insulted me and her first response was always to try to understand. I think the only thing that might have sent her running would have been GRS and I have no interest in that. I still don't know how it will all turn out in the end but if we go our separate ways I don't think it will be her fault.

B

Amanda,
Read the following thread, URL below, "MTF in need of help."  It chronicles over  years  (!!!) the decision of one of the forum's venerable members to come out to wife and public as well as the course of transition to follow.  In particular, the difficult  relationships between wife, daughter and the writer (Rachel) are meticulously recorded.  Eventually the marriage fails but not without many toxic marital behaviors and much emotional turmoil. With much effort and courage noble Rachel prevails.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133631.0.html

I found it incredibly informative and often inspirational.  It is long, over 40 pages but well worth the read.

Steph

Steph - thanks for the link.  In fact, I read this thread from beginning to end a few weeks ago and it was my main motivation to sign up for this community.  I don't think it would be appropriate to pass too much comment outside that thread other than to say, like you, I found it inspirational and a fascinating account of Rachel's struggle with herself and her valiant efforts of appeasement to save a marriage that was ultimately doomed.  Like many others in the community, I saw a lot of my own situation in Rachel's plight and I think we're all rooting for her as she takes her big leap next month.

Everyone - the realisation of the implications to SOs has been a big 'light bulb' moment for me.  Due to the agreement I made with my wife to cease all activities, I'm in the position of having to come out to her again and the more I think about it the more I got it horribly wrong last time.  Then, it was all about me - clearing my consicence, avoiding the need for me to go through the stress of worrying whether stuff had been found (which was the main catalyst for the confession), seeking ratification that what I was up to (CDing) was OK etc. etc.  I had no regard at all for her feelings, had not even considered the possibility that she would feel betrayed, let down, disgusted and all of the other things she went through.  Even until a few days ago, I was still of the view that she was being unreasonable by constantly changing her viewpoint and then shutting things off completely.  Having given this a lot of thought over the past 24 hours, I do think things may have turned out differently if I'd had more consideration for her.

As I'm now at the stage where the dysphoria is getting harder to cope with and the woman within is screaming to get out, I know that I have to have another conversation with my wife.  This time it won't be all about me and I will be looking to describe how I feel that I'm losing the T-battle, how I now believe that the whole thing is due to something that happened during my mother's pregnancy and how I want to keep my promise to be honest and open with her.  What I'm not going to do is to ask whether it's OK for me to go out and buy a few outfits and pick up where I left off.  Obviously, my hope will be that she will give her acceptance to the situation and set out what she feels to be acceptable moving forward; if she doesn't, the conversation will end with something like 'I just thought it was important for you to understand how things are and perhaps we can have another chat in a week or two's time'.  Trying to rush things this time round is definitely not an option and neither is reverting to 'stealth'.

I am indebted to all of you for your views on this topic.

Amanda

I feel the need to play devil's advocate and say eff the SO.

Yes, it's important (to me at least) to approach being trans and the realities of transition from a position of taking ownership of one's feelings and actions. On the other hand in my case when I had my first date with my SO 18 years ago, I wore my sexiest lingerie wanting to address my preference to express myself as feminine from the very start. Yes we wound up in bed that night and it turned into a one night stand gone horribly wrong.

When I broached (2 years later) that cross dressing was beginning to feel fake and that I needed to explore transitioning her negativity in response was a real surprise. I was accused of making her into my support system and threatened with ending the relationship.

This did play heavily in my decision not to proceed with transition and I have some regrets on that, and yet I take it as water under the bridge. I'm transitioning now and I'm really happy about it. She was a very bit as self centered as I expected with transition discussion v2.0 (January). Nevermind that I've learned never to lean on her for support - I've managed to become even more self sufficient in the meantime.

The net outcome nonetheless has been OK. She's realized I mean more to her than a cock and while she'll miss it if I proceed to GRS, has been clear that I'm entitled to do what I need with my body. I've also come to understand her pretty well and I think we're going to be ok.

My daughters remain as unknowns. One reacted badly to possibility of transition years ago and yet has since come to respect me and my relationship in ways that I hadn't thought possible. So I'm thinking the time I need to let her know is nearing and I believe my decision to be nonbinary will ease her phobias.

I'm glad I never broached this with my ex (daughters' mother) as she was decidedly homophobic in action (amusingly she was given to getting angry with me if I gave any hint of non-pc feelings and yet also was unsparingly critical if I ever gave a hint of being anything but heteronormative and have my daughters quite a screed when she eventually learned long after divorce that I'm bisexual)

So don't get me wrong, I'm quite able to understand feelings of loss on the part of an SO coping with a partner changing. However when relationship stress exposes clear homophobia or transphobia, you lose me.

There's no excuse for anyone born more than a generation after Stonewall harboring these prejudices. It's obvious that a marriage may not survive transition, rejecting the partner or parent wholesale is another matter.

The US is still a largely homophobic and transphobic place. I'm only glad that's changing. I'm also sure that the US adoption of gay marriage (thank you VT , MA and scotus) is costing us in the backlash against trans people. Change is rarely easy.

I wish my wife had been supportive... As it is, anyone who's read my thread "unsure" will know that she refuses to discuss my "issue", as she calls it. Worse, she even stated a few weeks ago that she "can't depend" on me in a crisis, which I find ironic as she's been depending on me financially now for almost 6 years, and there have been several crises in this time... I really don't know what the future holds, and to be honest it frightens me... I don't speak of my gender dysphoria to her, as is her wish, I stay off the internet at home, I do pretty much everything she wants, but it's never quite enough.

One thing I've come to appreciate about relationships is that people come with compromises of all kinds. There is no perfect relationship or person, but we often enter into relationships with the delusion that they are.

Ultimately, I didn't get into a relationship because I wanted sex and relationship status. Quite the opposite actually. I got into one because I wanted to give and receive closeness, affection, and someone to share my innermost thoughts with, someone to connect with properly and not just interact with in some small-talk throwaway manner. I later realized that due to being trans, I was more dissociated from sex than most other people, more in control of whether or not I let it infiltrate my decisions or my physical response than many other people. I could go the whole of my life without it and not care. Yet I've heard other people respond to that idea with abject horror. I realize now that I am very different, but I had absolutely no way of knowing that ten years ago when I entered into my current relationship. I was also quite blind to gender. I got into relationships with a person I liked, not a gender I liked. The gender just came with them. It was not a pre-requisite condition for attraction for me unlike some.

If I had known it - I'd probably not be in a relationship now. I am too different, my goals and needs are not the same. But let's say I still was and my SO told me tonight he was going to take estrogen and become a woman. It'd be a surprise, and I know I would miss certain aspects of his body. But I'd think he'd make a great woman if he wanted to be one, hypothetically. If that was who he really was, there'd be no getting around it and I'd be happy help because it's the person that counts to me. This person is the one person I chose on the planet to make this pact with about being the best we can be for each other and prove the rest of the world wrong about everything being selfish and crap. This was the person I had made a promise to ten years ago not to let them down or let them fall, and to help each other out should we need it no matter what. That was the platform we started on rather than just finding each other physically attractive (although we do), and so there's a great deal more to it than just "am I personally satisfied with what I'm getting out of this?" And I see that quite often - people being dumped and divorced because someone "isn't sexually satisfied" or thinks they could do better with someone else and feels they wasted enough time on this man or that woman. There's an urgency to other people's mating game that I just cannot appreciate. Maybe because it's a mating game and not a "soul mate" game, I don't know.

So I can only speak from my outlier perspective and say any person who was my significant other, the one I had found worthy of my commitment and effort and striving - that person would have my support no matter what. If it was painful, if it was sad, if it was not my dream, if it meant changes... they're my brother or sister or ally or comrade and best friend and they'd have my support. That's just me. That's the sort of bond I make when it comes to this kind of commitment. This kind, or none at all. And I'm actually sure it's not because I'm trans that I would understand - but just because I know being a human is difficult and painful and sad, and usually the only way to find a real light in this world is to try to make a space for it and a flame yourself and be the sort of person you wish you could find out there.

That's basically the situation I have at present. Me transitioning is not ideal, but I'm needed and wanted nonetheless and I'll do what I can to honor my promises. It's worth a thousand throwaway flings or mediocre relationships to me even if it's tough.

It's not an ideal comparison but I often think about the scenario of getting cancer. If I did, and I had to have my chest amputated, would my SO kick me to the curb because he'd never get to grab some boobs again? And what kind of other is that who'd dump a person because they had a disease and needed to do something about it to survive. If my SO had to have his junk amputated would I kick him to the curb? Hell no. And being trans is a medical condition that sometimes requires surgery and recuperation and understanding. I think it comes down in the end to there being two kinds of people and SO's - those who would stick with a sick or injured spouse/partner and help them through it so they can get strong again, and those who'd turn you out of their house or screw behind your back for want of a new "healthy" person. I'm not going to pass judgement on the methods of the biological imperative, but I know which one I'd rather be dealing with. 

Good replies and discussion.

I do believe you can and should expect unconditional love and acceptance out of people that love you, and you can and should expect everyone in society not to be transphobic or homophobic. No excuses work as one poster said. For some reason, people are more comfortable with unconditional love and acceptance when it is used in context of one's children, but it should be universal.

I hold myself to that same standards.

Idealistic? Yes, but that is how the world changes. One person at a time.