Dear Cathy

Sorry to hear that things are rather low with you at the moment but remember that when things hit rock bottom, they can only get better.

I agree with the advice that you should seek professional help with this via your GP but, equally, it is important that you help yourself.  As I know to my own cost, it's very easy to find excuses but the problem with excuses is that they don't get you any further forward.

I think the first thing you need to identify is what you really want, what would give you inner peace.  By this I don't mean 'to have been born female'  as, sadly, that is not now achievable for you.  However, there are a number of things that are achievable (and, when making your decision, ignore the impact you think it may have on others):

- Full surgical transition including GRS & FFS
- Transition without surgery
- Partial/part time transition (where, for example, you live as female at home but male at work)
- Hormone treatment without transition
- Freedom to fully cross dress
- The chance to explore your gender more fully and move back and forth along the gender spectrum as you desire
- And many others

It is very important for you to be completely honest in this assessment of yourself.  There are a number of ladies on this site whose transitions have been stunning and, looking at their before & afters and reading how happy they now are is almost like hearing 'come on in, the water's fine' but there are far more of us struggling to figure out who we are, what we are and what our end point is.  Fundamentally, would you feel comfortable in the female role full time?  It's also very easy to feel this way when the dysphoria kicks in but do you still feel the same when things are calm?  Do you have a picture in your mind of what Cathy looks like and do you like what you see?  I know you've been advised to have a makeover from a TG friendly makeup artist but, if you prefer, why not try one of the makeover websites as a start point?   You may also need professional help to come to a robust conclusion (and further professional help if the conclusion is transition) but I do believe you can be reasonably confident in your answer.

Having done that, the next question, of course, is what is stopping you?  We know your wife is very hostile in this respect but even putting this to one side, from reading your posts, I get the impression that your marriage is not easy anyway.  Whether or not your marriage will survive over a long term is possibly conjecture in any event but you have indicated in your posts that it would probably not survive a ramp of of your TG activities, particularly if full transition was the end point.  As you are aware from another post of mine, I do have a lot of sympathy if spouses are hostile when they learn of this but that doesn't excuse ongoing victimisation/bullying - put bluntly, if they feel that TG activities are incompatible with the marriage they entered into, they should bring the marriage to a close, not use it as an excuse to make life intolerable for the other party.

I think there's also a danger that our guilt about this 'affliction' causes us to over compensate as a result and give too many concessions.  You clearly have to have another conversation with your wife, if not several more, and when you do, I would be inclined to be more assertive in your approach while accepting that she's not going to like what you say.  I would also be inclined to suggest that you initially concentrate more on your gender dysphoria and what it's doing to you and your relationship and see if she comes up with a solution rather than just seeking permission to resume activities which immediately places her in a position of power.  However, don't forget that she already knows of your dysphoria and, despite everything, has not left you up to now so this does give you some strength in your discussions.  We can ask 'what's the worst thing that can happen?' - ironically, breakdown of your relationship would give you the freedom to pursue your dreams so I think that the answer to this is effectively 'things continue as they are now' - in other words the consequence of doing nothing which, as Dena quite rightly observed a couple of posts ago, will probably lead to the breakdown of the marriage anywaty.

I do hope you can find a way to navigate your way through all of this but remember that you need to steer the boat!

Amanda

Quote from: Joanna50 on August 30, 2016, 11:14:58 AM
Done with Cathy? How about Kathy or Kate(I have a GG friend that will argue that Kate is far superior to Cate or any other variation), Katey, KateyDid...

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 03:48:37 AM
I felt that Cathy was dead and buried.

It's OK to feel that way. Perhaps, as Joanna50 suggests,  a new name is an option. To make a fresh start.
To be honest, Jane wasn't my first femme name.  But when I came out last year and started living full time, I knew I couldn't go back to <old femme name.>  There was just too much old baggage associated with it. <Old femme name> just wasn't able, for one reason or another (fear mostly), to come out and start transitioning.  And so she went dormant for many years of painful gender suppression.  But one of the great things about transition is that you get to choose the kind of woman you want to be.  So I needed a fresh start. And Jane just felt right.

Do you think you could benefit from a fresh start?

Quote from: aaajjj55 on September 02, 2016, 10:12:32 AMI think the first thing you need to identify is what you really want, what would give you inner peace.  By this I don't mean 'to have been born female'  as, sadly, that is not now achievable for you.  However, there are a number of things that are achievable (and, when making your decision, ignore the impact you think it may have on others):

- Full surgical transition including GRS & FFS
- Transition without surgery
- Partial/part time transition (where, for example, you live as female at home but male at work)
- Hormone treatment without transition
- Freedom to fully cross dress
- The chance to explore your gender more fully and move back and forth along the gender spectrum as you desire
- And many others

I think I'd like to start at the bottom of the list and work up, if that makes sense. Cross dressing always felt "right", right from a very early age, as I've said before all my life I've had dreams of doing "normal" stuff but in the female role. It was never really a sexual thing, although in common with others there was an element occasionally followed by the "post ejaculation guilt", but certainly during my first marriage, I used to just sit for hours dressed in her clothes, watching TV or whatever. As to whether I'd ever fully transition, I honestly don't know...

QuoteIt is very important for you to be completely honest in this assessment of yourself.  There are a number of ladies on this site whose transitions have been stunning and, looking at their before & afters and reading how happy they now are is almost like hearing 'come on in, the water's fine' but there are far more of us struggling to figure out who we are, what we are and what our end point is.  Fundamentally, would you feel comfortable in the female role full time?  It's also very easy to feel this way when the dysphoria kicks in but do you still feel the same when things are calm?  Do you have a picture in your mind of what Cathy looks like and do you like what you see?  I know you've been advised to have a makeover from a TG friendly makeup artist but, if you prefer, why not try one of the makeover websites as a start point?

I thought I'd deleted all my "Cathy" photos, then a couple of weeks ago I found a memory card with some on. They are however at least 2 years old, and I've lost a lot of weight since then, but somehow I look at them and see "lardy bloke in dress". I've tried one or two of the "virtual makeover" websites but somehow I'm never really happy with the results.

QuoteHaving done that, the next question, of course, is what is stopping you?

In no particular order; fear, lack of support, absence of self respect and self confidence. People on here have been very kind, but I don't have a "physical" support network. I never go out alone socially, I don't really have a life outside work and home, and my wife is hostile to say the least towards me going anywhere. I know it's down to her insecurity, I think she knows I'm even more insecure and plays on it.

QuoteAs you are aware from another post of mine, I do have a lot of sympathy if spouses are hostile when they learn of this but that doesn't excuse ongoing victimisation/bullying - put bluntly, if they feel that TG activities are incompatible with the marriage they entered into, they should bring the marriage to a close, not use it as an excuse to make life intolerable for the other party.

But she won't, that would mean her having to go out and work for a living...

QuoteI think there's also a danger that our guilt about this 'affliction' causes us to over compensate as a result and give too many concessions.  You clearly have to have another conversation with your wife, if not several more, and when you do, I would be inclined to be more assertive in your approach while accepting that she's not going to like what you say.  I would also be inclined to suggest that you initially concentrate more on your gender dysphoria and what it's doing to you and your relationship and see if she comes up with a solution rather than just seeking permission to resume activities which immediately places her in a position of power.

Her solution was "don't ever mention it again..."

QuoteHowever, don't forget that she already knows of your dysphoria and, despite everything, has not left you up to now so this does give you some strength in your discussions.  We can ask 'what's the worst thing that can happen?' - ironically, breakdown of your relationship would give you the freedom to pursue your dreams so I think that the answer to this is effectively 'things continue as they are now' - in other words the consequence of doing nothing which, as Dena quite rightly observed a couple of posts ago, will probably lead to the breakdown of the marriage anywaty.

I do hope you can find a way to navigate your way through all of this but remember that you need to steer the boat!

Amanda

I don't know what to do any more to be honest. I don't think I've had more than a handful of half decent nights' sleep in the past couple of years, I lie awake for hours every night trying to see a way forward, to rationalise the situation, to plot a course... the more I try, the less I understand myself, the more frustrated I become. As regards steering the boat, I'm still trying to find the wheelhouse...

Cathy

This is going to be a shorter reply than last time due to other pressures - please don't interpret it as exasperation!

First and foremost, it's your life and it's important you control it, not someone else so you are going to need to take charge.

It sounds as freedom to cross dress will satisfy your cravings, at least in the short term (but googling 'late onset transgender' is an eye opener and you do need to be prepared for the eventuality that you will feel the need to go further).  Freedom to do what you want in private without involving others certainly seems like a reasonable compromise to preserve the marriage if that's what is important to her.

You say that she won't end the marriage as she'd need to go out to work but you could (or at least threaten to).  This would at least force her to answer the question 'which do I find the least unpalatable, a crossdressing husband or having to work for a living)'!

As regards 'don't ever mention it again', I think it's important to remember that we are increasingly understanding that being transgender is not a 'dirty little perversion' but a physical issue caused due to brain misdevelopment in the womb possibly in some cases caused by hormone based drugs taken by the mother during pregnancy.  Like any other physical condition, not talking about it is not going to make it go away (and like many other physical conditon, many of us wish we didn't have it) so I think you have to bite the bullet on this one.

Hard though it may feel for you, I think your priority now is to regain control of your life; it is fundamentally wrong that you feel unable to go out and socialise or to at least put your cards on the table regarding the torment you're living with.  What you're living with at the moment is a form of domestic abuse and that's not acceptable.  If, as you suspect, your wife will not terminate the marriage, this is the best bargaining chip you have and it's important to start using it in the same way that your wife would if the tables were turned.

Good luck,

Amanda

Well, if you've stayed up all night every night and can't see your way out, maybe it's time to admit (a la AA) that you have exhausted your resources and can't do it on your own any more. You so-called partner is not helping you. You need a friend. Or a therapist. Someone who can help you see clear. Someone you can confide in because your wife doesn't want to hear it.

You're a person with value and worth. It's right for you to reach out to others and to have friendship and support. Your wife, just by virtue of being married to you, doesn't have the right to cut you off from every other human being.

In the end, you run around afraid of displeasing her but you can't please her because you can't be somebody you're not. Also, she seems like an easily displeased person. Let go of the need to live up to her impossible demands. So she's unhappy. Isn't she unhappy already?

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on September 03, 2016, 06:11:27 AM
Well, if you've stayed up all night every night and can't see your way out, maybe it's time to admit (a la AA) that you have exhausted your resources and can't do it on your own any more. You so-called partner is not helping you. You need a friend. Or a therapist. Someone who can help you see clear. Someone you can confide in because your wife doesn't want to hear it.

I saw a therapist for 8 months, and to be honest it didn't help. She was adamant that I wasn't trans per se, I just wanted to be my sister as she was quite blatantly my parent's favourite and I merely crave(d) affection. Friends-I don't seem able to keep them...

QuoteYou're a person with value and worth. It's right for you to reach out to others and to have friendship and support. Your wife, just by virtue of being married to you, doesn't have the right to cut you off from every other human being.

In the end, you run around afraid of displeasing her but you can't please her because you can't be somebody you're not. Also, she seems like an easily displeased person. Let go of the need to live up to her impossible demands. So she's unhappy. Isn't she unhappy already?

It seems so. I haven't done any washing or ironing for a fortnight to see what would happen... The washing basket is now overflowing, the ironing pile is a mountain. But her main concern is getting a new sewing machine so she can make her "artworks"... Talk about misplaced priorities...

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 05, 2016, 03:45:08 AM
I saw a therapist for 8 months, and to be honest it didn't help. She was adamant that I wasn't trans per se, I just wanted to be my sister as she was quite blatantly my parent's favourite and I merely crave(d) affection.

There are Therapists and then there are Crack Pipe Therapists. I suspect you spent 8 months with one of those that see GD as something that can be "Fixed". When I was a kid I envied my (older) sister. I cried when mom told me in no uncertain terms that "Boys do not wear skirts" as I stood there in my sisters school outfit looking forward to the first grade. In school I envied all the girls, all treated far better and cut a lot more slack then the boys. Naturally I had to make that disdain the teachers had for boys well earned.

Then there was the countless nights, wishing, praying, deal making with God, to wake up in the morning as a girl, from about the age of 4 onward. The desire always there to be a girl. Knowing I wasn't like other guys. To me "Getting into her panties" had a whole different connotation. I always envied other women. Always my first thought being "That's a cute outfit" or "I wish I could wear something like that", or "I wonder where she got that?". Finally the sense of peace and harmony gained from just seeing some semblance of a woman looking back at me from the mirror.

I wish there was a way I could convince myself I am not trans, or "somewhere on the spectrum" I spent a good 40 years trying to tell myself I am not. I spent parts of these past 7 years trying to tell myself all that I have been doing is crazy, pointless, or makes no sense. Except I know what those 40+ years of wishful thinking got me. I got to be a lifeless soulless 'Thing' that existed only to do what was expected.

You would benefit from seeing a TG friendly, or understand therapist. A good way to learn of a decent one and "Physically" connect with others like yourself is through a local TG support group. Firsthand recommendations are far better then random shots in the dark or a lot of pre-interviewing the therapist to see if "Transgender Clients" means more then I once had a class I think when it was mentioned.

The greatest benefit this would be is the chance to "Man-Up" (as ironic as it may sound) and do something small for yourself. You saw a therapist once before. Sure the wife grilled you afterwards. Same will happen this time. The last things she needs or wants is you gaining some self esteem or self respect, or being every so slightly assertive. Worse a therapist telling you to leave that toxic marriage as quickly as possible as your only hope. When she grills you simply tell her it's about the trans stuff and you know she doesn't want to hear anything about it. Smile and walk away 

Cathy

I've just read back through all of your posts in case I've missed something and, to be honest, I find your situation heartbreaking as you seem to have backed yourself into a corner from which you see no way of extricating yourself.  However, as I think you realise, the only person who can get you out of this predicament is you.

I'm no expert but you appear to be exhibiting the signs of clinical depression; if this is the case, then you need to see your GP as a matter of urgency and open up to her (the use of the female pronoun was deliberate here as I think you need to see a female doctor for this one to help you open up on the underlying TG issues).  Remember, even if this is the same doctor your wife sees, the doctor is bound by strict confidentiality rules and cannot discuss your issues with her.  If the doctor is any good, it will put you on the path towards therapy; if not then find another doctor.  This issue is critical for you and the longer you leave it, the worse things are going to get for you.  Also, you do not need your wife's permission to do this!

Parallel with this, you need to address the situation with your wife.  You have a few options:

1.  Go 'stealth' - in other words lead this side of your life in secret.  I know that you have already explained the difficulties of this but I know that many others on this site have lived similarly for periods of time and I'm sure there will be plenty of good ideas to help you.
2.  Tell her what you are doing but don't seek approval.  This one will undoubtedly make living at home unpleasant but I think it is anyway.
3.  Tell her your plans and seek her approval via compromise.  You've already said that her idea of compromise is giving you no concessions at all but, as I said on a previous post, you do have a number of bargaining tools that can help you.
4.  Leave her and live your life as you want to.  Self explanatory and here you have a simple decision - which is better - to suffer with her or live as your true self without her (not forgetting all of the other issues that come from a failed marriage which have to be factored in to the equation)
5.  Carry on as you are at present.  I'm sure this is the least acceptable option to you but, unfortunately, unless you take action, this is the one you're stuck with.

You also said in response to a previous post that you're not really sure what you want.  Clearly therapy will help but, in addition, I think you should look for a TG makeover salon near where you live and book yourself in for a session.  Firstly, this will help you overcome the image of a 'lardy bloke in a dress' that you currently have of yourself and secondly, when it's time to change back, you will better understand the emotions you feel at having to leave the female side of you behind (in other words, are you comfortable with resuming your male persona or do you feel that remaining in the female persona is what you really want).  I'm sure you could engineer a day off to achieve this without telling your wife.

You have your daughter to consider of course.  Inevitably, the existence of children in the family may have to modify what we do; for many this means that they put thoughts of transition to one side for the sake of their children but, remember, this is the 21st century and you live in Britain where there are discrimination laws on your side.  If you were to decide to transition, there is absolutely no reason why you could not be awarded full custody of your child.  Granted there are all of the other issues she would face having a TG parent but many do this successfully.  Equally, if you find that periodic crossdressing satisfies your urges, she never needs to know.

To close, I sympathise with your plight a great deal but, equally, can see that you are prone to make excuses as to why you can't get out of your current rut which, in all honesty, in the primary reason you are currently unable to move forward.  In five years time, it would be great to look back and see how Cathy has blossomed and grown into a self assured woman at peace with herself (regardless of whether she's a full time or part time woman) but for us to do this, you will need to take charge of the situation and not allow others to put you down.

I wish you well and hope that you are soon able to move forwards towards the inner peace you so desperately need.

Amanda


p.s. I'm sure you've already done so but, if not, read the following thread which now runs to 41 pages and describes a situation very similar to yours:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133631.0.html

Hello person, whatever your gender is and whatever your heart is,

I just wished to give my support to you, in my possibilities.
I am struggling with gender and life as well, but not as you, definitely not.
Being unsure and crying my heart out, knowing it can be worse, makes me a bad person? I don't think so.

Despite all anyone can say to you, the support coming and going, I think we have to remember that both we and them are humans. Limited and blind. Always were, always will be.
Down to us (and with "us" I mean also any person, also no transgender, which is experiencing problems/crisis in zee life), the path is always difficult. For some is damn difficult, for some maybe impossible.
We may find people that accept us, that do not accept us, that do accept, then changes zee mind, and everything in between. Will we do it? No way to know.
There is only the path, and our fears.

Needless to say, our being in in the very deep of our fears.

A big hug, and "vomit out" as much as you can. Do it, don't think you annoy. We are humans, these things is what makes us so. And, until you can, accept others' limits.

Hugs,
Iv.

Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.

Cathy,

Don't leave!  Please!  We want you here.  You have friends here.

Keep the dialogue going.  It is not a failure, no one's time is being wasted.  This is an ongoing struggle that is difficult for all of us taking time and persistence to prevail.

We are here just to listen at minimum,  offering understanding support. 

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.

This thread has been ongoing for almost a month.  In this thread, many people have voiced their support for you and shared their advice.  Many more than that have read your story (2300+ views on this thread alone) .  The numbers don't lie.  People obviously care.  There are about 100 posts in this thread alone which prove that.

Don't give up on us.  We're not giving up on you.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.

Really, you aren't a fraud.  Seriously.    The deal of the cards during fetal development gave you and many of us a very challenging hand; a hand that can not be perfected, but can be made less onerous; but you have to choose what is right, FOR YOU.   That could be as radical as completely abandoning your existing life, to as subtle as carrying a gender neutral purse.   There is no wrong answer, just as there is no perfect answer, as long as its an answer that lets you live out the rest of your life with some degree of inner peace.

Cathy

To be a fraud, you need to be dishonest and the title of this thread says it all - 'unsure' - this is about as honest as it is possible for you to be.  Everyone on this site has had a struggle, after all we've all been in a position where our emotions are at odds with our physical forms.  Some on this site have been through stunning transformations providing us with inspiration and envy in equal volumes.  However, the majority of us will struggle on for the rest of our lives dealing with self denial, abuse, rejection, difficulty 'passing' and just wishing that nature had dealt us the right hand.

You and I face very similar issues and a read back through my posts since I joined a few weeks ago will show you what I have been through emotionally.  My dysphoria comes and goes; when I joined up here I was emotionally ready to start the path to transition; as I write now, the dysphoria has subsided and I have no desire to transition or to even cross dress.  That doesn't make me a fraud (I hope!) but this is how GID manifests itself in me and I know that the feelings will return in the future as they always do.  I would also stress at this point my unending gratitude to everyone who has participated in my threads in helping me understand myself, my situation and why I am as I am.  Most of all, though, you and all of the other wonderful people on this site have shown me that I am not alone in my struggles.

I know that you have been worried that people will get fed up with you as this has happened on other sites.  Please don't confuse robust advice delivered bluntly as people being fed up with you - we all write in different ways but everyone who contributes to any of your threads has only one objective - to help you navigate through your difficulties and find inner peace.  Often, others are able to take a step back and see a way forward which you can't.

Finally, please remember that reading, or participating in, your threads helps others - from my point of view it has helped validate my own feelings about my situation and giving advice that has been appreciated has boosted my feelings of self-worth (or, to put it another way, advising others has underlined what I need to do myself if I wish to continue on this journey).  If you are finding concentrating on yourself too much to handle, why don't you take a look at the other threads and participate if appropriate?  You have a lot to offer this community and I'm sure your advice based on your own experiences would be very much appreciated.

Above all, though, remember that you get one shot at life and have a right to be happy.  You didn't choose to feel the way you do but everything from that point on is a choice you need to make and, whatever you decide, I hope that you will be able to look back and feel that you made the right choice.

Please stick around - we need you!

Amanda

Sweetie, do what you can, for you. Even if that is just a tidy kitchen, or a load of laundry.

We do understand, you will always be a part of team Susan, and we'd love you to stay.

Sno.

Cathy,

Amanda's observations are sage-like.  This site is really unique in that the members are seriously concerned for one another, trolls are nearly absent thanks to the careful monitoring of Susan and the other moderators of the site.  Your experiences on other forums should be forgotten while here.

Amanda hit on a very important point.  This site is where the people with GID and dysphoria problems and sober, serious wish to confront them seem to congregate.   It is a hybrid of an informal discussion with a group of close friends where you can bring your most difficult problems and loosely, something like group therapy.  It is safe in that no one will attack you personally here.  Sometimes the advice may be difficult to hear, sometimes to the point of frankly uncomfortable or disturbing.  Why, because that is what friends do for friends:  be honest.  Beware of people who are  always offering praise and is uncritical--they are not friends.  Friends are true and honest, will be willing to push you a little into territories you might find out of your comfort range, but will at the same time be at your side to help you through the tough spots.  They will stay with you in the tough times as well as the good, asking nothing in return other than your friendship and knowing you'll be there for them if the roles were reversed.

To that final point, we want you here for a larger purpose that trancends the struggles any of us endure in day to day life.  The sum of our experiences and fact that we have come together as a community of friends with a shared purpose to slay or at least come to live with our demons give us power we do not have individually.  The whole is truely greater than the sum of the parts in this case.   We want you to contribute to this "whole."

I think you will find that the process of reading and responding to other members posts is very healing and therapeutic for both the reader and the writer.   It is the participation that is the critical event.  You may not have the perfect answer that solves the problem but you still will be contributing to a solution.  Often the solution is simply offering the support and understanding for the other who may be in a particularly dark spot at that moment.  I'm at loss for words to express my gratitude for this simple human gesture that had been extended to me by members in some of my worst times.  They didn't have The Answer, but they were there for me.

Please hear us:  We are here for you.  By helping you, we are all stronger.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.

Cathy,

I wish I could help you understand how many of us feel like a fraud and in different ways. I have always felt like a fraud. It is even the term I have used over and over. In my life, in my job, as a parent. Certainly when it came to trans issues. I didn't really understand what it all was so I just saw myself as a pervert faking being normal. However, even with "faking" I could not fit in. Additionally, I don't think I know anyone who has walked the path we do(whether deciding to transition or not) who does not have major doubts. Look around through the site and archives. The words doubt, fake, false and fraud show up over and over again. I don't think you are so different in that.

I too never thought I would have the courage to face this. Until I was up against a wall and had very few choices left. No choices and the realization that it does not go away. Ever. It may ebb and flow but that realization was part of what led me to realize it was not so much a choice, except to survive.

Don't worry about what you should do. You do have an overwhelming amount of people trying to reach out to you. It can be just that, overwhelming and intimidating. So do what you have to for you. Not what others tell you have to for...? There is no one path. There are common ones but even as it is walked, it is individual. Like us.

If we didn't want you to take up our time we wouldn't let you "take" it. No one is forced to keep answering you. No one has a legal obligation to keep reading you. It is a self incriminating phrase that strikes me as you feeling you are not worthy of all this. That may well be a good first good step(at the risk of telling you something you should do). Find a way in which you have worth. I have always found it hard to love myself. However, I too had to find I was worthy. Worthy of anything positive. You are worthy of your treat(coffee, a good beer, a muffin), your love that others may have for you. I think this is kind of important. Worthy of that clean house... I think you see what I mean.

Steph brings up some good points as does Amanda(thanks for the nice words about the work the moderators do). In particular, group therapy helps not just the one in the current "hot seat". It also helps all. So why would we want you to go away. If you leave, it could mean any of the rest of us could/should. Don't know if that logic makes sense to you or others but it strikes something in me.

You are family. Family sometimes takes time. Sometimes makes choices we would not. However, without sharing any DNA, you have more in common with us than many siblings. We care about family, even ones we have never seen face to face.

Stick around. See what crazy things others are writing about, creating games, helping people in trouble.

I hope it gets easier.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 08, 2016, 07:07:07 AM
Sometimes the advice may be difficult to hear, sometimes to the point of frankly uncomfortable or disturbing.  Why, because that is what friends do for friends:  be honest.  Beware of people who are  always offering praise and is uncritical--they are not friends.  Friends are true and honest, will be willing to push you a little into territories you might find out of your comfort range, but will at the same time be at your side to help you through the tough spots.  They will stay with you in the tough times as well as the good, asking nothing in return other than your friendship and knowing you'll be there for them if the roles were reversed.

Cathy,

You will never find a better definition of a friend that this offered by Steph who I am also proud to count as a friend.  It is sadly a reality that members of this community very rarely meet in the real world but there is, of course, a good reason for that as many of us have to live very different lives than we're able to live here.  However, I'm sure that more than a few of us would like to sit down with your wife and explain to her what you're going through and plead with her to cut you some slack!

Some in this community will be strong enough to 'transition' their real world lives to meet their aspirations but, for the rest of us we have to live a life of compromise and struggle.  This is particulary so for those of us who are late onset transgender as we additionally have to deal with the ravages of half a century of testosterone, families who may or may not approve, possible loss of livelihood and even just convincing ourselves that we're not perverts.  Does being our aspirational selves on this site make us frauds?  Absolutely not; we're all in this together and understand both what each other is going through and that, for many of us, there are two sides to our persona, only one which manifests itself here.

Amanda is an important part of who I am but she's not the whole story.  I think she has a fully formed personality (strangely identical to someone else I know!), I've got a good idea of what she looks like (although I have a feeling she'd want a bit of work doing on her face and other areas as she's quite concerned about her appearance!) but I don't yet know how she'd cope on her own in the real world and, indeed, whether she really wants to face the real world on her own.  What I do know is I wouldn't be the person I am without her as she brings a sense of compassion & understanding which I think would otherwise be lacking.

Let Cathy live and let her live here even if nowhere else - she can gain lots and give lots by being a member of this community and her participation can be as much or as little as she wants.  I also understand that she has a friend called 'Bob' and he'll be just as welcome if he feels the need to join the discussion.

We look forward to hearing from you again,

Amanda

Cathy,
Before you make up your mind whether to leave, consider all the generous thoughts offered in this thread.  At risk of repetition, this place is the real deal.  We are not offering platitudes.

I have only been a member of the forum for a few weeks.  In this short time, my participation has revolutionized by entire view of my own situation.  I could go through the list of realizations I've had but they would be repetition of the various observations made by my friends and "sisters" I've come to know in this short time participating in this forum.  I was overwhelmed by the incredible courage I saw in some who charged onward toward transition with obvious obstacles and seemingly insurmountable challenges and prevailed, pleased with their new lives and happy to embrace the interim suffering and struggle needed to achieve their ultimate successes.  I is easy to see these remarkable stories as the initial impressions of what is is to be TG or have troubling unresolved gender issues and what is required of the individual to address them.  Looking at these  "successes" tended to make me feel as if I were a failure, weak, lacking courage that these others seemed to manifest. As I came to read more of the threads on this site, my view changed.  The majority are more akin to what you, Amanda and I struggle to overcome.  Are we failures?  I suspect not.  While one must be true to his/her own self, I think we all understand this must be viewed in a broader context of the practical impact to our lives and of certain critical others involved in our lives.  Nothing is simple, lfe is a chaotic (literally, in the mathematical sense) web of complexity and interactions.  To ignore these is foolish, not the basis for concluding that one is a fraud.  Arguably, it is quite noble to be able to have this insight and not act in a headstrong selfish manner.

On the other hand, recognize that those who transition are driven by a profound need to do so, often quite consciously realizing the result will completely overturn everything in their lives, good and bad.  It may lead to loss of spouse to divorce, estrangement of family members, loss of friends, even loss of employment.  The need is so great that the decision may be one made in nearly dire situation of feeling unable to continue with life itself without transition.  To be certain, these people are courageous and at the same time scared and anxious about the future.  Their need is so great that this is the only path they can consider.  Other more fortunate individuals may not face a situation as dire as this but deeply desire transition and face lesser obstacles making it more readily achievable.  I would hope it would become increasingly easy for genuinely TG kids and adolescents to find a relatively trauma-free path to correct discordant gender and natal sex in the coming years--that is another topic entirely.

At this point in my life, if I found myself living on a desert island alone with no one else to consider or even better,  on a lush hypothetical oasis called Susan's Place Island I would certainly transition fully to live as a woman I know I am inside.  I would probably have the full array of surgical FFS/GRS, etc. to treat the exterior but I am middle aged, not that concerned about being judged a striking beauty, quite happy with the idea of being an average appearing postmenopausal woman.  The main thing for me would be simply being able to realize living day to day life, doing the mundane things of life as my authentic  gender.  This is not possible given numerous obligations I have in real life.  The lush island exists in a virtual sense here on this forum.  I can live this part of my life here, have my friends help me think through my challenges and cope.   With their help, I made the big step to seek therapy, something I'm not sure I would have had the courage to do.

I advise you to take some time to read the stories of several of us such as Amanda and or even me.  There are a thousand others that are in many ways similar.  The vast majority of us continue to struggle hoping to find relief without radically dumping lives we've created over a half century of even more.  Amanda used the typical term "late onset transgender" which I suspect is  probably more correctly termed "late realization transgender."  It is never an easy path to follow but in the early stages of life a remake of one's self if in many ways much easier to achieve prior to careers, family, spouse, children, networks of longstanding friends and associates, and on and on and on.

I fear we lost Cathy...