My kids are growing up. One is getting married. One left home (she is 18). I have come to grips with the idea of rejection and divorce, and I believe I can finally be transparent with my wife and kids. My daughter that is engaged, told me almost a year ago that she would disown me if I were to pursue transitioning. My wife (who has known about my struggles since 2013) will not tolerate my transitioning. She has many friends and religious folk that will encourage separation and divorce. We love each other very much, and have been married for over 25 years. It will be very difficult for both of us, but I feel the timing to be much better than when I posted a few months ago about staying in the closet because it was in the best interest for my wife and kids. Mentally, I was not ready to accept the full reality of who I am and all of the ramifications of that fact.

I've come to find that the elephant in the room is that we are not really allowed (by each other, mostly) to pass any judgement on any trans person for their selfish or self involved proclivities. Can't actually even refer to it for the most part. Oh...we can skirt the issue in the abstract, but pointed insinuation, even in the constructive and you will find yourself being admonished. So on one level, I find threads like these rather pointless. Either you veil everything in sympathethic and empathetic hyperbole, or you risk being (well....pick one of the following).....vilified, castigated reprimanded, rebuked, admonished, chastised, chided, censured, upbraided, reproved, reproached, scolded and then banned and bounced out the cyber door.  .  So I've learned to let all this stuff be. I think it's a shame that message boards are censored this way. On the other hand, trolls destroy meaningful conversation for us all. So at no risk of anything, I'll reserve my opinion and be my own

I see nothing selfish in taking medication prescribed by a doctor.

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 10, 2016, 03:04:59 PM
I see nothing selfish in taking medication prescribed by a doctor.

Simple truth

hmmmmmm....I thought the selfishness alluded to in this thread was regarding lying to a spouse, not  prescribed medication. Particularly of note when that lie could easily culminate in the end of that relationship. Those particular medications change paradigms and perspectives as well as certain aspects of physical performance. They certainly did with me.  All very important things in the type of relationship being referred to here.

The OP didn't say anything about anybody lying to anyone.

Well that's the problem  with entering an oppressive control based institution like marriage.

People change. Inevitably. That's why over half of all marriages divorce and the other half are pretty much miserable, frustrated or bored.

Quote from: Deborah on October 10, 2016, 05:52:25 PM
The OP didn't say anything about anybody lying to anyone.

Hi Deborah,
    I kept my transsexuality a secret from my wife for over 30 years. I considered myself lying to her by omission. Much like the OP's subject regarding the person she was interacting with. So semantically speaking, that's what I meant.

I kept mine secret too.  Mainly because I believed the foolishness that God would fix it if I believed hard enough.  Regardless, I'm not sure that qualifies as a lie, particularly if one believes they can beat it. 

Anyway, I have come to view all of this differently.  We are not guilty of any transgression simply for being born in a society that deliberately goes out of their way to demonize us at every step and poison others' minds against us and our own minds against ourselves.

Getting medical treatment for a recognized condition is not a sin.  Abandoning one's spouse for seeking medical treatment is a sin against the marriage vows themselves.  The fact that we internalize this guilt and think we are doing something wrong is the real problem.

I've spent most of my life putting others before myself to the point where I managed to significantly damage myself.  As selfish as it may sound to some, I need to consider my own needs in this as well as the needs of my family and friends.

Perhaps I could have stopped lying about what I really am if I had known what I really am back when I was a child.  Instead, I was 'corrected' with a yardstick to the wrist when I expressed a desire to be something other than a boy.  I was counseled by a priest on my 'perversion', and I had a professional witch doctor recommend electroconvulsive therapy and aversion therapy, methods we now know would just condition me to insist on the Big Lie about what I really am.  (Mom saved me from that last.  I just got T injections and religious guidance...)

I know without question that a huge factor in my current functioning is hope; hope for a better life for myself; hope that I can finally be at peace with myself; hope that I can live as myself.  These things make others uncomfortable with me.  Many folks close to me cannot stand the thought of my changing in any way; they are comfortable with the artificial persona I have hidden behind for decades.  They like the Bg Lie.  For my own well-being and sanity, I must dismantle that artifice and live as myself.

So, I can meet the expectations of others, maintain that artificial persona and continue the Big Lie, and condemn myself to live with suicidal depression, or as a drugged-out zombie if I could find a suitably unethical psych doc.  Or, I can do what a doctor and gender specialist have recommended, dismantling that persona and living as my authentic self, while disappointing others around me who 'love' that persona and don't want to see me.

Should I engage in such self-sacrifice, continue the Big Lie to please people who I already know love an artifice and cannot accept who I really am?  Should I be my authentic self, and while knowing the immense cost in terms of losing everyone, live my life, and move forward to meet new people, form new friendships, and perhaps build a new family, all accepting me for what I actually am, here at the end of my life?

There are those who would promise me that all I have to do is continue my self-sacrifice until death, that is, continue my Big Lie, and some bearded old dude in the sky will refrain from throwing me into a flaming pit as my big reward.  Yeah.  Prove it.

I've made my choice. 

Quote from: jentay1367 on October 10, 2016, 05:29:25 PM
hmmmmmm....I thought the selfishness alluded to in this thread was regarding lying to a spouse, not  prescribed medication. Particularly of note when that lie could easily culminate in the end of that relationship. Those particular medications change paradigms and perspectives as well as certain aspects of physical performance. They certainly did with me.  All very important things in the type of relationship being referred to here.

The initial post had to do with someone being on HRT and if the spouse found out, she would get angry. The posting person rhetorically asked why trans people lie?

Maybe the spouse got the hormones on-line or in the graymarket, but usually ones gets them through an Rx, hence from a healthcare practitioner. The only person she was lying to was herself because she denied herself HRT. Isn't this the old "you have to tell the guy" argument all over again: better you find out before than later that he doesn't like transitioners. In this case the person finds out the wife doesn't like the trans person and demands they stop medical treatment.

I won't go into "why didn't you tell the people you dated" before you were married. Some do. But we are here now. Blech! Easier said than done, but to a person who says, "if you get treatment, I'll leave!" the "correct" (life affirming) answer is "don't let the door hit you in the a**."

Yes. Our life is not so much long and eternal to continue the Big Lie.

barbie~~

Quote from: Deborah on October 10, 2016, 06:24:20 PM
I kept mine secret too.  Mainly because I believed the foolishness that God would fix it if I believed hard enough.  Regardless, I'm not sure that qualifies as a lie, particularly if one believes they can beat it. 

Anyway, I have come to view all of this differently.  We are not guilty of any transgression simply for being born in a society that deliberately goes out of their way to demonize us at every step and poison others' minds against us and our own minds against ourselves.

Getting medical treatment for a recognized condition is not a sin.  Abandoning one's spouse for seeking medical treatment is a sin against the marriage vows themselves.  The fact that we internalize this guilt and think we are doing something wrong is the real problem.

One thing some people do is disclose prior to marriage. "I believe I am trans and plan to transition."



A case where an MTF trans person married another (cis) woman. This is one time where I think disclosure is helpful. You might find the love of your life straightaway.

All my life, since I was a kid, I have been fighting GD, thinking it was bad and that I was a sicko. I did my best to hide it from people and I never told anyone.
After I had been married for about 5 or 6 years, after much soul searching and discussions on forums like this one, I decided that I needed to come clean with my wife. When I told her, she seemed receptive and asked to see me dressed. When she saw me she freaked out and spent the next few hours screaming and yelling and generally reinforcing my negative feelings about myself. My self esteem was already pretty low and I went back into the closet. I continued to live the lie for another 20 years after that. My wife became emotionally abusive and I started having suicidal thoughts.
I had to go behind my wife's back to get into therapy, another lie. My therapist helped me to see that enough was enough. I am doing everything I can to get out of this abusive situation. I live alone now and am able to dress full-time. Once my divorce is final and I know more about where I stand financially I will seek help in fully transitioning.
The only time I've ever been as happy as I am now was when I was a preteen and used to go to the mall in girl clothes when my parents weren't around.

I'm guilty of lies like all people are in every single relationship, but i never once lied to my spouse about my GD, as soon as i knew what it was and what i suspected, i let her know. She knew i was feminine as a friend long before we dated. I got married with stockings, a garter belt and panties under my tux.

Still, not everyone comes to the realization the same. As a matter of fact, we all sort of do it differently and some of us lie to ourselves first, so how can we be honest with anyone, if we are lying to ourselves?

I'm sorry but i bristle at spouses accusing people with GD of deception. Certainly it exists i'm sure, but it also is a false accusation in my instances. My spouse never accused me of it, her only disappointment was that more information did not exist on it 20 yrs ago, I agree with her.

I guess I deceived my wife. I was in denial for many years and only recently realized if I didn't confront this thing it would be the end of me. Someone said in a thread I was reading that the first transphobe you need to confront is yourself. Lightbulbs came on and it was epiphany time for me.  That has been a watershed for me because I realized finally that until I accepted myself,  I was doomed to a live an existence of  hating myself. So I've come out and my wife is doing her very best to understand me. Some days suck. But I always want to find a way for us to work this out together. Without her, my journey simply wouldn't be as wonderful as it's been. So I make concessions. And I always gut check myself to make sure I am being honest with her..and me. Otherwise,  what's the point? Being your authentic self rocks. When you can do it with someone you love....it super rocks! I am a very lucky girl! !

Hi Nicole,

First off, I agree with you yet at the same time realize that there are some who are in such fear that this keeps them in the closet rather than risk losing what they have. No matter they should if humanly possible make every effort to make a disclosure to their partner.

I've noticed a fair amount of people in this position think only of "me" and not what they are doing now and in the long run to their partner and family.

There are many factors that can sway how the outcome will go if done properly but first that person needs to think about who they may possibly hurt.

In recent months I've met two married transgender people, one in their early thirties, disclosed their transgender side on their first date. They are now married with one child and is allowed to go out dressed with a transgender group. The other, just under 80, came out to the family, had a difficult time because this person was trans all their life and married for thirty years but after working with their spouse they are still married.

I applaud how the younger one realized up front if the relationship would even start full disclosure was needed. I think this is not the norm and only with education, putting others first will be a start to changing a transgender's attitude towards disclosing who they are rather than hiding and hoping nobody learns of their other side. Little do many realize it's like "trying to hold a beach ball underwater, eventually the beach ball wins and rises to the surface", that is how I see a true misgender person in a relationship without telling their partner.

 

It seems like I opened up an old wound on this forum with my post, and that was not my intent. My intent was to simply provide an update to my last post. I want to thank Deborah, Michelle, Tina, and others for your understanding. It is difficult to fight religious, spousal, and family pressures....and the guilt of feeling that I am selfish. There is hardly a selfish bone in my body. I could provide a lengthy resume of such facts. But I am now tired and drained, and in need, and my wife prohibits me from getting any help except from maybe a pastor or Christian Therapist. "Fight it! Bury it!" I've tried, and I am tired, so please let me transition in peace.

Quote from: RobynD on October 11, 2016, 12:03:50 AM
I'm guilty of lies like all people are in every single relationship, but i never once lied to my spouse about my GD, as soon as i knew what it was and what i suspected, i let her know. She knew i was feminine as a friend long before we dated. I got married with stockings, a garter belt and panties under my tux.

Still, not everyone comes to the realization the same. As a matter of fact, we all sort of do it differently and some of us lie to ourselves first, so how can we be honest with anyone, if we are lying to ourselves?

I'm sorry but i bristle at spouses accusing people with GD of deception. Certainly it exists i'm sure, but it also is a false accusation in my instances. My spouse never accused me of it, her only disappointment was that more information did not exist on it 20 yrs ago, I agree with her.

RobynD: I can identify with the tux story. If it is socially unacceptable to also wear a gown, I can at least do the next best thing when marrying another woman--especially since I have disclosed and been honest.

I, too, was raised lesbian including being socially rewarded for dating other girls, which I was not into the same way guys were. I did mess around and over time I suspected what I felt when I was with another girl was very different from what non-GID guys felt. There seemed to be a strong element of possession--a hunger onto devouring. I felt nothing like that. Is that why trans-cis women-to-woman marriages vibe so differently and why trans-women think that telling a guy about a checkered past is like telling a girl the same thing? In my limited experience guy-girl secrets are not like girl-girl secrets. The vibe's all different. The deepest intimacies are different. The guy's needs are different.

That, however, does not make woman-to-woman marriages any less valid. On the contrary. It merely reveals them for what they are. The question is, is the cis woman lesbian and there may be shame issues she has in owning up to her lesbian attractions when she's been able to sublimate them in a seemingly "straight" marriage. The spouse comes out and the chickens come home to roost.

One think I hope that the new openness around trans will allow is for more young "lesbian" MTF transitioners to do is to be honest with the girls they date. I did many things that misfired while I was transitioning, young, but I believe it was the one thing I got right. i always told the other girl when it started to get serious.

Quote from: TessaLee on October 11, 2016, 07:40:20 AM
It seems like I opened up an old wound on this forum with my post, and that was not my intent. My intent was to simply provide an update to my last post. I want to thank Deborah, Michelle, Tina, and others for your understanding. It is difficult to fight religious, spousal, and family pressures....and the guilt of feeling that I am selfish. There is hardly a selfish bone in my body. I could provide a lengthy resume of such facts. But I am now tired and drained, and in need, and my wife prohibits me from getting any help except from maybe a pastor or Christian Therapist. "Fight it! Bury it!" I've tried, and I am tired, so please let me transition in peace.

No wound opened for me. Speaking for myself, I was responding to Nicole's original post at the top of page one. A guilty verdict should include a specification of what the "crime" is and the accuser (the "victim") should not also take on the role of prosecutor, judge, and jury, which I sense happens in the cases where ultimatums are given. Personally, I'm not good with ultimatums and they make me dig my (high) heels in.

And let's take a look at the word selfish. The accusation, if you get down to the bone is that "you are being yourself." And somehow that's a "crime?" Who else can you be? To say it again, the accusation, "you are selfish" is actually "you are trying to be yourself."

So sue me! It's who I am. Who else can I be?