Forgive me: I'm very tired and so my mind is a little boggled on how to ask this. I might even come across as shouty, but I'm not intending to sound that way. I'm merely trying to emphasize some words so I can be more understood.

Most post op asian trans women (and even some nonasian trans women like Kimber James) have vaginas that have a hole, yes, but on the outside of the hole (going up toward the bellybutton) is skin that is morphed to look like a cisgender woman's vagina. My wonder is WHY that is because the hole of cisgender women's vaginas (and even trans woman Danielle Foxxx) is on the INSIDE of the "part that looks like the outer lips of a vagina" while the asian trans women I mentioned (along with Kimber James) have the hole BELOW the "part that looks like the outer lips of a vagina."

The best way I can relate it is: Imagine that the hole of a cisgender woman's vagina is between her poop hole and bottom vagina lips--that's how the asian trans women I mentioned (again, along with Kimber James) have THEIR vaginas. Another way to describe it, is like this: Going down from the belly botton, you reach the top part of the vagina lips. Go further and you're in the middle of the vagina lips, but there is no hole. The skin is simply shaped to look like lips. Go further and you reach the dilation hole. Then go past the dilation hole and you reach the space between the dilation hole and the poop hole. Go further and you reach the poop hole.

Again, the problem I'm seeing there, is that the dilation hole is not between the vagina lips; it's under it.

And I think I just realized my actual question: What doctor is responsible for designing THOSE sorts of vaginas? And who are the doctors that design vaginas like Danielle Foxxx's (where the dilation hole is actually INSIDE the vagina lips)?

Note: I realize that Danielle Foxxx probably has the vagina type like Kimber and the asian women I mentioned. Maybe I just haven't seen all of her pics.

Danielle had SRS with Dr Suporn and his technique is all about making it look natural, especially the labia. Most Asian porn stars don't go to Suporn as he's very expensive compared to local surgeons. Look up Suporn's technique (and Chett which is related to it) and compare it to penile inversion.

Some of the really cheap Thai surgeons appear to be butchers.

Thank you AnonyMS. I'm kind of blanking on what to say because of my tiredness, but I guess I'll see in a little bit or after resting.

I think it is a difference between penile and non penile inversion techniques. I think it has allot to do with the material that is available to work with as well as if graphs are used.

It would appear like the issues with the florechette that this is a common downside/limitation of the penile inversion.

I may be completely wrong as well and am more than open to more information on the subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am a bit confused, Chett did mine and my vagina hole is where I'd expect it to be if I were CIS

I have seen a few other examples of Chetts work in person and they too looked perfectly normal to use Chetts favourite word  I also had occasion to a have a reasonably close look at an example of Dr Thiti's work (penile inversion) back in July and that was on an Asian girl and it looked like a very good approximation of a CIS vagina.

I'm not sure if judging results from any surgeon on the appearance of porn star vaginas is a good way to judge their skills unless that's the look you're after. As AnonyMs said Chett and Suporn aim for a particular result in terms of appearance and depth but both are out of the usual price range of the average Thai.

Maybe I missed the point of the post in which case I humbly apologise, I just wanted to point out that not all of us have the type of vagina mentioned.

Hugs

Sorcha 

Quote from: Even Stevens on October 10, 2016, 10:02:47 PM
Again, the problem I'm seeing there, is that the dilation hole is not between the vagina lips; it's under it.

I've seen lots of pictures like this. Not sure exactly whats causing it, but it looks like there's not enough labia material to reach all the way down.

Ive slept with a 1000 women and I have also seen Danielle Foxx porn as well as Ladypussy site. I know what a cis vagina looks like.

For the sake of dilation they do not place a skin flap over the hole after initial surgery. If you have planned this with your surgeon you can then extend the labia minora flap about a year after surgery. Thats what Danielle fox did.

For most of us one surgery is all we want to go thru with unless you want to be a porn star.

Quote from: AnonyMs on October 10, 2016, 10:18:00 PM
Danielle had SRS with Dr Suporn and his technique is all about making it look natural, especially the labia. Most Asian porn stars don't go to Suporn as he's very expensive compared to local surgeons. Look up Suporn's technique (and Chett which is related to it) and compare it to penile inversion.

This is my first quote copying attempt, so I hope I'm doing it right. Of the primary two people--the 1st being a slightly hairy lightskinned woman and the 2nd being a very hairy darkskinned woman--posted on Dr. Suporn's website as examples of his SRS results, the darkskinned woman has the same results as that of the thai trans women I have been mentioning: where the dilation hole is under the vagina lips and not between--or, at least, it SEEMS like it's not in between the vagina lips. What my eyes are seeing is a black "U" line right under the bottom lips of her vagina (very noticeable in her second picture), and this is what is having me believe that the dilation hole of this woman (and that of the thai trans women I have been mentioning) is under the bottom lips of her vagina and not within it. In other words, that "U" line is coming across to me like it itself is the dilation hole. I don't actually know whether it is though.

I say this because you said that Dr. Suporn strives to make it as realistic as possible, but yet the darkskinned woman has the same results as the thai women I have been mentioning. So I guess what I'm wanting to know is "What caused the darkskinned woman's vagina to look like that and not like Danielle Foxxx's?" Did the darkskinned woman only have one surgery? Or did she have another type of operation entirely?

I'd appreciate anyone giving their theories on this. And I apologize if I end up not being able to respond to everyone.

Also, the website has me logged in for like a bajillion minutes against my will, but I do exit out of Susan's place. I have no idea what happened with the minutes. And lastly, I get "brain fog" often, so if you see that I am here reading answers and don't respond, it's not that I'm ignoring. It's the brain fog that makes me unable to reply quickly.

Thank you everyone.

Quote from: SorchaC on October 11, 2016, 12:40:55 AM
I am a bit confused, Chett did mine and my vagina hole is where I'd expect it to be if I were CIS

I have seen a few other examples of Chetts work in person and they too looked perfectly normal to use Chetts favourite word  I also had occasion to a have a reasonably close look at an example of Dr Thiti's work (penile inversion) back in July and that was on an Asian girl and it looked like a very good approximation of a CIS vagina.

I'm not sure if judging results from any surgeon on the appearance of porn star vaginas is a good way to judge their skills unless that's the look you're after. As AnonyMs said Chett and Suporn aim for a particular result in terms of appearance and depth but both are out of the usual price range of the average Thai.

Maybe I missed the point of the post in which case I humbly apologise, I just wanted to point out that not all of us have the type of vagina mentioned.

Hugs

Sorcha 

Thank you SorchaC.  If I have any other thoughts I'll get back to you.

Thank you Brooke and WarlockMaster. Again, my brain fog is making me unable to think correctly, so this I why I'm saying "thank you" at a later time after I thanked Sorcha.

I don't like some of the results on Suporn's site. They are very old and I don't think they are representative of his work these days. You can find much better ones if you search. You'd think he'd put his best results on the website, but its not been updated in years.

Short answer to the question asked in the topic title:

Perhaps we should al broaden our definitions of what a vagina is "supposed" to look like!

Quote from: elineq on October 12, 2016, 01:27:19 PM
Short answer to the question asked in the topic title:

Perhaps we should al broaden our definitions of what a vagina is "supposed" to look like!

You seem to have taken my question the wrong way. Please know that there was no malicious intent in my asking of it.

Quote from: AnonyMs on October 11, 2016, 06:23:50 PM
I don't like some of the results on Suporn's site. They are very old and I don't think they are representative of his work these days. You can find much better ones if you search. You'd think he'd put his best results on the website, but its not been updated in years.

Do you know of any sites by memory that show his recent results? I can search for them myself, but if you know of any by memory then I don't have to put that much effort into looking. And yeah, I know. I'm not sure why surgeons tend to do this. 

I'm going to try rephrasing my question so it is not as offensive.

Unfortunately, I'm not being allowed to modify my question. But assuming that someone has clicked into it, here is the way I was thinking of rephrasing it: There seems to be 2 different types of vaginal results post SRS; which doctors do the first and which doctors do the second?

Thank you again everyone. Please chime in with whatever you'd like. 

Quote from: Even Stevens on October 12, 2016, 07:18:30 PM
You seem to have taken my question the wrong way. Please know that there was no malicious intent in my asking of it.

Same here, I didn't mean anything bad. It's just that so many people seem to have an idea of what vaginas are supposed to look like... Based on porn, or whatever outdated and misogynist view of feminine beauty. That's why I urge people to have a look at the great wall of vagina (google it if you don't know what it is), they come in all shapes and sizes. There is no "abnormal", even for neovaginas.

It sounds like you're describing the lack of a fourchette, which is the part where the labia (vaginal lips) enclose the vagina and meet underneath it. Some surgeries succeed in creating one and some don't; the main reason seems to be that the stress of dilation can put a lot of pressure on that area and destroy the delicate work required to maintain the fourchette. So surgeons don't always try to create one - that may be down to how much tissue they have to work with and how elastic that skin is - and sometimes it doesn't "take" when they do. Basically, for surgeons who are willing to try, it seems like the main issue is the personal variation in the bodies they have to work on. This is also, as others have said, a fairly easy revision later on, when dilation frequency had dropped dramatically and the rest of the area has healed up.

I had a one-stage penile inversion surgery with a minimal fourchette (my outer lips do cover the vagina, but the point where they meet underneath it is not well defined), and I actually did pop a couple of stitches in that area from dilation and walking. It did heal eventually, and without a noticeable scar, but it was painful and awkward for a few weeks.

The short answer, then... It's dependent on the surgeon's willingness, the patient's body, and the luck/speed of healing. It doesn't seem to be directly related to the method of GRS (penile inversion or not). And some porn stars probably paid for the follow-up revision work required to get it "perfect."

Just a point to clarify the terminology, too, because that makes discussing these things easier - the "dilation hole" is the vagina, while the rest of the structures (inner and outer lips, clitoral hood, etc.) are collectively called the "vulva."

Quote from: elineq on October 13, 2016, 05:07:01 AM
Same here, I didn't mean anything bad. It's just that so many people seem to have an idea of what vaginas are supposed to look like... Based on porn, or whatever outdated and misogynist view of feminine beauty. That's why I urge people to have a look at the great wall of vagina (google it if you don't know what it is), they come in all shapes and sizes. There is no "abnormal", even for neovaginas.

I saw the wall you suggested for me to look at: I didn't need to see it, though, because all the vaginas depicted in it and all the cis vaginas (and Danielle Foxxx's vagina) I have seen still do not look like the vagina of the thai trans women I have been mentioning. The black "U" line and the lack of lower vagina lips I had mentioned in one of my earlier responses are not traits I have seen in any cis woman's vagina (Danielle, once again, also being an example of someone who does not have those things). (I should mention here that my being interested in a certain type of vagina does not mean I'm trying to force everyone into liking the type I do. [I don't even think vaginas like Danielle's or cis women's are more worthy of being declared "a vagina" than those of thai women I have been mentioning. Right away, that destroys the "You think vaginas should look like this" argument.])

I reworded my question in one of my recent responses so that it does not refer to the "thai" vagina types as "strange." I urge you to keep in mind that I asked the question at a time when I was tired. (Yes, I still said the word "strange"--I know that--but, again, I reworded it to make more clear exactly what I'm wanting to know and to make it not look like I'm here to brainwash people into thinking certain vaginas are pretty and other vaginas are ugly.)

I don't know what else to say. I guess just as long as *I* know that I'm not here to brainwash or bully people, it doesn't matter to me how I'm coming across. This is the last time I'm going to try to explain myself to you.

Note: This response of mine is a little bit snippy because you keep trying to change a view you think I have ... that I do not even have, which is the "All vaginas should look a certain way" one.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on October 13, 2016, 10:26:41 AMI had a one-stage penile inversion surgery with a minimal fourchette (my outer lips do cover the vagina, but the point where they meet underneath it is not well defined), and I actually did pop a couple of stitches in that area from dilation and walking. It did heal eventually, and without a noticeable scar, but it was painful and awkward for a few weeks.

The short answer, then... It's dependent on the surgeon's willingness, the patient's body, and the luck/speed of healing. It doesn't seem to be directly related to the method of GRS (penile inversion or not). And some porn stars probably paid for the follow-up revision work required to get it "perfect."

I think I have many questions, but I'll just start with the first ones that I already know I want to ask you.

First, did you ever "perfect" the fourchette? If not, why? Judging from some of the responses I'm getting, it seems like I'm a minority in that I like vaginas to have lips that basically make the vaginas look like Danielle's. Is it correct for me to think that and that most trans women would simply be fine with the "thai" vagina type (which I suppose is the type that "lacks a fourchette" like you say)?

Thank you for your long response, and please continue trying to lengthen your responses. The more information I can get, the better.