I was born female supposedly. I mean I am female in such a way no one will ever have to know otherwise basically. I could have kids and a husband and no one would ever know. I always knew I wasn't like them other women though. I have slight masculine features like a broad chest and shoulders and very narrow hips I've been actually compared to like transphobic I guess jokes because of it. I also have a deepish voice it's like 200 hzs maybe 195 when I wake and really don't care. I sould basically like a prepubescent boy. And I have a lot of body hair for a woman I even have small amounts of chest hair. But I look really feminine because I have soft facial features kind like short underdeveloped features and really tiny hands small build short height and huge boobs. So of course no one notices the masculine qualities but myself. But the thing is I did a DNA test recently that showed I have Y chromosomal material. And not even like a little but quite a lot. Implying my chromosomes are actually xyx or xxy. I of course am going to a doctor to get it all figured out.


But what is really taking a hit from this news is my confidence. Confidence in actually being a woman. I never identified as a woman. When I was a kid I had male cousins and male friends and even a brother. And I always thought somehow I'd grow up like them. I never felt like I was different. I went through puberty way early so I couldn't really understand what was going on but by 12 I knew I was somehow on the wrong road. Like I knew somehow I was supposed to be experiencing development as a boy not a girl. And I tried to ignore it because I would say things people like family would think I was even more crazy. I tried to hide it and ignore it and embrace being a woman. But when I was 18 I got female roommates and I realized these girls were very different from me. And I felt like my interest in men was a same sex attraction I felt like I aligned better with guys and I got to know some gay men and I identified closely with the ones that were more moderately masculine. I still never understood how I could feel like any gender I just related better with men than women. An have always felt somehow I was really a guy. And now knowing I am and was in some sense male. It makes feel odd about actually trying to identify as a woman. For years I said I was transgender but I never had a desire to change my body I've always like being me. But I've always known I wasn't a woman still or at least not like the people that do identify as women. I just don't really know what I am now... Am I gay or not? I mean in my head I am. My genetics show a link and why my head's all messed up on the perception with men. But at the same time I have female body. That on most levels is just a female. Advice?

If you have Y chromosomes, genetically, you're male. You could be a chimaera, which is a combination and rare, but I have to ask,  why were you raised female? I wonder if your parents are or were withholding information.


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Quote from: Gertrude on October 21, 2016, 09:57:05 PM
If you have Y chromosomes, genetically, you're male. You could be a chimaera, which is a combination and rare, but I have to ask,  why were you raised female? I wonder if your parents are or were withholding information.


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I don't know what chimaera is?

But they raised me female because I look female. I have female genitals and I even menstruate. So I mean I can procreate like females do even. There's nothing that implies I'm actually male besides the chromosome thing in my dna test. Besides me and my head which I always felt not female. More like a gay man than anything etc...

Welcome to Susan's Place. If you are XXY, then than would be Klinefelter_syndrome which would make you transgender and might put you into the intersex family. Your doctor should have more specific information as the feminine development is confusing.

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Quote from: Dena on October 21, 2016, 10:21:47 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place. If you are XXY, then than would be Klinefelter_syndrome which would make you transgender and might put you into the intersex family. Your doctor should have more specific information as the feminine development is confusing.

I read the wiki about KS and it very clearly says that XXY means a person is male and has extra X chromosomes.
The OP says she has extra chromosomes that are Y.
She is guessing at the actual chromosome makeup XYX, XXY? SHe doesn't actually know and needs to investigate further with a more conclusive test.
Also not mentioned is why the DNA testing was done?
Can a DNA test give the info needed to determine what her condition is?
Nothing about the chromosomes says she is transgender, I don't see where you get that idea.
The feminine development is confusing? She's a girl!
She is neither intersex as well...where is the ambiguous genitalia?

Quote from: dmj23 on October 21, 2016, 10:00:12 PM

I don't know what chimaera is?

But they raised me female because I look female. I have female genitals and I even menstruate. So I mean I can procreate like females do even. There's nothing that implies I'm actually male besides the chromosome thing in my dna test. Besides me and my head which I always felt not female. More like a gay man than anything etc...

Some people have a mixture of XX and XY. It's rare, but happens. Look up chimera or chimerism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)


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Quote from: dmj23 on October 21, 2016, 09:49:09 PM
I was born female supposedly. I mean I am female in such a way no one will ever have to know otherwise basically. I could have kids and a husband and no one would ever know. I always knew I wasn't like them other women though. I have slight masculine features like a broad chest and shoulders and very narrow hips I've been actually compared to like transphobic I guess jokes because of it. I also have a deepish voice it's like 200 hzs maybe 195 when I wake and really don't care. I sould basically like a prepubescent boy. And I have a lot of body hair for a woman I even have small amounts of chest hair. But I look really feminine because I have soft facial features kind like short underdeveloped features and really tiny hands small build short height and huge boobs. So of course no one notices the masculine qualities but myself. But the thing is I did a DNA test recently that showed I have Y chromosomal material. And not even like a little but quite a lot. Implying my chromosomes are actually xyx or xxy. I of course am going to a doctor to get it all figured out.


But what is really taking a hit from this news is my confidence. Confidence in actually being a woman. I never identified as a woman. When I was a kid I had male cousins and male friends and even a brother. And I always thought somehow I'd grow up like them. I never felt like I was different. I went through puberty way early so I couldn't really understand what was going on but by 12 I knew I was somehow on the wrong road. Like I knew somehow I was supposed to be experiencing development as a boy not a girl. And I tried to ignore it because I would say things people like family would think I was even more crazy. I tried to hide it and ignore it and embrace being a woman. But when I was 18 I got female roommates and I realized these girls were very different from me. And I felt like my interest in men was a same sex attraction I felt like I aligned better with guys and I got to know some gay men and I identified closely with the ones that were more moderately masculine. I still never understood how I could feel like any gender I just related better with men than women. An have always felt somehow I was really a guy. And now knowing I am and was in some sense male. It makes feel odd about actually trying to identify as a woman. For years I said I was transgender but I never had a desire to change my body I've always like being me. But I've always known I wasn't a woman still or at least not like the people that do identify as women. I just don't really know what I am now... Am I gay or not? I mean in my head I am. My genetics show a link and why my head's all messed up on the perception with men. But at the same time I have female body. That on most levels is just a female. Advice?

You are female and have some extra Y chromosomes which accounts for the masculine features. The most essential  parts of you are female. You have female genitalia and you have ovaries that have eggs in them, hence the menstruation. If you only have female genitalia that is obviously so and have no hint of male genitalia then there is no ambiguity. So you are not intersex in the strict sense of what that is.
You have identification issues because of your appearance being affected by the masculine features which you say only you can see so that is a self perception. You also report feeling more comfortable and more yourself with men than with women.
You are not a gay man if you identify as female and like men, you are a heterosexual woman.
If you identify as male then you are trans male and I guess technically you are a gay trans male
You say that you feel you are trans but never wanted to change your body because you like your body well enough.
You don't have to want to change your body to be transgender.
Many of us do want to change our bodies but that has to do with how we want to identify as the transgender and our sense of what our body should look like to match that identification.
I think you are a trans male and setting aside the Y chromosome which just helps confuse the issue of what you feel you are because it mixes the physical with the mental.
Physically for the most part you are female, but mentally you feel male and identify more strongly with men.
You talk about the makeup of your body and what it can do, menstruate, bear children, big boobs, soft facial features. This is your physical identity.
When you speak of what you feel and what makes you more comfortable and how you identify, that is your state of being. It is this that you are wondering about and as I said before it points to being trans male.
I hope this made sense to you and is helpful.

So basically I would call it that your sex is "intersex", and you are still trying to get clarification on that point but that is the umbrella term for "medically ambiguous sex" (and if people here can start a debate, it's ambiguous...  and your gender is... Whatever you feel like it should be really, that's your call. Could be a boy, could be a girl, could refuse both and identify as nonbinary, an enby. Hope that vagueness mixed with terms helps somehow.

Yeah agree with everyone else about the intersex bit. As for your gender identity you sound possibly non binary to me. This may help as a basic guide http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page. You may also want to consider demiboy and demigirl. Your chromosomes have nothing to do with your sexuality. A non intersex persons chromosomes doesn't cause them to become straight. You may feel attracted to masculine men bcos that's how you see yourself; which is normal bcos people typically are attracted to people who look like themselves. And there are two types of attraction, romantic and sexual, if you feel at least one of these you can identify as gay.

Btw, check out the 'non binary network' on youtube and tumblr if you feel you could be nb. I find Tumblr to be the resource on nb identities.

Quote from: Elis on October 22, 2016, 04:38:45 AM
Yeah agree with everyone else about the intersex bit. As for your gender identity you sound possibly non binary to me. This may help as a basic guide http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page. You may also want to consider demiboy and demigirl. Your chromosomes have nothing to do with your sexuality. A non intersex persons chromosomes doesn't cause them to become straight. You may feel attracted to masculine men bcos that's how you see yourself; which is normal bcos people typically are attracted to people who look like themselves. And there are two types of attraction, romantic and sexual, if you feel at least one of these you can identify as gay.

Btw, check out the 'non binary network' on youtube and tumblr if you feel you could be nb. I find Tumblr to be the resource on nb identities.

This is from the Intersex Society of North America

"Intersex" is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.

Intersex is for the most part about physical expression. Chromosomal variance can be the reason for it but ultimately its about body parts.
The OP has not said that any of their body parts are male. They think they are male looking and state that they are the one who thinks that while others don't see it.
They stated that they like 'moderately masculine' gay men not uber masculine men and they did not say that they look like a masculine guy. They described themselves as having a soft feminine face which to me sounds like, looks female with some perhaps slightly masculine features elsewhere on the body.
Anyway they are mostly wondering about how they feel inside and who they are comfortable with and who they identify with which in each case is gay men.
They are confused about their physical looks not feeling congruent with their sense of self.
Ergo they are likely trans male because of the strong identification with men and disinterest in living as and identifying as female.

I've been reading a bit about this and I came across a case where a woman had xxy chromosomes and so did her daughter but an inactive Y chromosome so she didn't find out until she was very old. I'm 23 and I didn't know any of this until a week ago. When I looked at my dna results.

Quote from: Dena on October 21, 2016, 10:21:47 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place. If you are XXY, then than would be Klinefelter_syndrome which would make you transgender and might put you into the intersex family. Your doctor should have more specific information as the feminine development is confusing.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
  
• Reputation rules
  
• News posting & quoting guidelines
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy
  

I did a dna test regarding my ethnicity. Because my family's the descendent of slaves. So I didn't know my heritage and 3 of my relatives did family trees and got nothing further than my mom's great grandma. Not even into the 1800's basically. So I did a DNA test. I got results and then uploaded the information everywhere basically and 2 of the places came back with male. I uploaded on gedmatch and it said xyx. I uploaded on Prometheus it said male. And then I looked at my information and found I had data/material on my Y chromosome. And at first I thought it was a glitch but I spoke to the company and told me it was more than just that they retrieved 1/7 snps off the Y chromosome... Which is about 130 out of 885. And I did the test somewhere else with same results even.

Quote from: Stephenie S on October 21, 2016, 11:11:59 PM
I read the wiki about KS and it very clearly says that XXY means a person is male and has extra X chromosomes.
The OP says she has extra chromosomes that are Y.
She is guessing at the actual chromosome makeup XYX, XXY? SHe doesn't actually know and needs to investigate further with a more conclusive test.
Also not mentioned is why the DNA testing was done?
Can a DNA test give the info needed to determine what her condition is?
Nothing about the chromosomes says she is transgender, I don't see where you get that idea.
The feminine development is confusing? She's a girl!
She is neither intersex as well...where is the ambiguous genitalia?

Quote from: Gertrude on October 21, 2016, 11:29:12 PM
Some people have a mixture of XX and XY. It's rare, but happens. Look up chimera or chimerism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)


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I looked at the story about the athlete. And I'm a bit different I am not infertile and I don't think I have testis when I was younger I had an ultrasound because I was sexually active very young and the doctor said I had ovaries and a uterus like any other woman. I think it's a tiny glitch that I probably wouldn't have come across normally my whole life but I won't completely know until I go to my doctor and get some tests done.


But thanks for the link

well on a chromosomal level I am intersex. I think that's what I've always seen in myself. But I don't really get how. Or how I knew all along really something wasn't the same with myself. You're right though I was looking at a video having to do with everyday average intersex people. They talk about like surgery and stuff to alter their appearance I mean like forced surgery. And I never had anything like this like I said no one ever has to know for me.

I've always felt like I was a gay man but happen to somehow have a female body. That's what I mean is mentally I've always thought I was gay. And that's been the case since I was very very young. And I don't find masculine men attractive I just see myself kind of the same as them on the mental level I am actually more attracted to men that are less or more masculine usually.

And I don't have identification issues with my looks I'm ok with them I just don't really think my spirit is actually female. I think like underneath it all I'm actually a guy. Not a macho masculine guy but all the same a guy mediocrely masculine basically.


I think it probably should bother me that I am in part mismatched socially. But I don't really understand gender to begin with. Which is why I never could quite transition because I felt like I didn't get how feeling female or male was or what it meant. I always felt like me and I assumed that meant female because I thought my body was female. Now that doesn't even help with an identity for me.

Quote from: Stephenie S on October 21, 2016, 11:38:32 PM
You are female and have some extra Y chromosomes which accounts for the masculine features. The most essential  parts of you are female. You have female genitalia and you have ovaries that have eggs in them, hence the menstruation. If you only have female genitalia that is obviously so and have no hint of male genitalia then there is no ambiguity. So you are not intersex in the strict sense of what that is.
You have identification issues because of your appearance being affected by the masculine features which you say only you can see so that is a self perception. You also report feeling more comfortable and more yourself with men than with women.
You are not a gay man if you identify as female and like men, you are a heterosexual woman.
If you identify as male then you are trans male and I guess technically you are a gay trans male
You say that you feel you are trans but never wanted to change your body because you like your body well enough.
You don't have to want to change your body to be transgender.
Many of us do want to change our bodies but that has to do with how we want to identify as the transgender and our sense of what our body should look like to match that identification.
I think you are a trans male and setting aside the Y chromosome which just helps confuse the issue of what you feel you are because it mixes the physical with the mental.
Physically for the most part you are female, but mentally you feel male and identify more strongly with men.
You talk about the makeup of your body and what it can do, menstruate, bear children, big boobs, soft facial features. This is your physical identity.
When you speak of what you feel and what makes you more comfortable and how you identify, that is your state of being. It is this that you are wondering about and as I said before it points to being trans male.
I hope this made sense to you and is helpful.

Well your research is inconclusive and your confusion about what gender to identify with and what sexuality is the main problem that is causing you suffering.
You seem to want an answer as to who you are based on the interpretation of your chromosomes.
I think you need a definitive answer based on a proper analysis of your test results.
You will make yourself more confused trying to figure out that part via anything you find on the internet.
You have already tried that and received conflicting conclusions.
Don't follow the advice of people telling you to check out being nonbinary, chimera or anything else unless you want to be lead down potentially blind alleys.
Work with people whose business is to study and understand this stuff.
Talk to a gender issues experienced therapist if you can to get help with your feelings.
Excuse me for having previously suggested what you are...I don't in fact know and I am sorry if I added to your confusion.

The thing is I really needed my sex to be solid for my gender identity to be more solid. Because when I was a kid I had thoughts like that I should be developing in the direction to become male not female. And the thing is it wasn't just thought but more a physical desire. Outside of that I don't really understand gender I understand sex but not gender that's my identity as a man would be weird because I don't know what a man is. And I don't know what a woman is. What it feels like to be ether. I just feel like myself. That's really all it is.

Quote from: Elis on October 22, 2016, 04:38:45 AM
Yeah agree with everyone else about the intersex bit. As for your gender identity you sound possibly non binary to me. This may help as a basic guide http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page. You may also want to consider demiboy and demigirl. Your chromosomes have nothing to do with your sexuality. A non intersex persons chromosomes doesn't cause them to become straight. You may feel attracted to masculine men bcos that's how you see yourself; which is normal bcos people typically are attracted to people who look like themselves. And there are two types of attraction, romantic and sexual, if you feel at least one of these you can identify as gay.

Btw, check out the 'non binary network' on youtube and tumblr if you feel you could be nb. I find Tumblr to be the resource on nb identities.

I don't get a lot of people who say I look masculine. They usually just say I look feminine more due to my size. Some people will mention that I am built pretty masculine for a female. I've even had a few transphobic jokes concerning that. More than that though I have had some times where I dressed more androgynous no make up cuz I just got up and I always keep my hair short and I've been reffered to as sir before. Like twice in my life I've also been referred to as sir on the phone two or three times. Outside of that I shave so no one really can see any difference. So I have some masculine physical features they're just very sparse. My height is even sort of masculine for my mother's family as the women tend to be below 5ft. And I'm well above 5ft. I'm about the same height as my mother's father. It's just I see things in myself first before anyone else would of course.

I don't like moderately masculine guys anymore than any other guy tbh. But I was just saying that's where I felt I was on terms of masculinity.

Quote from: Stephenie S on October 22, 2016, 02:23:45 PM
This is from the Intersex Society of North America

"Intersex" is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.

Intersex is for the most part about physical expression. Chromosomal variance can be the reason for it but ultimately its about body parts.
The OP has not said that any of their body parts are male. They think they are male looking and state that they are the one who thinks that while others don't see it.
They stated that they like 'moderately masculine' gay men not uber masculine men and they did not say that they look like a masculine guy. They described themselves as having a soft feminine face which to me sounds like, looks female with some perhaps slightly masculine features elsewhere on the body.
Anyway they are mostly wondering about how they feel inside and who they are comfortable with and who they identify with which in each case is gay men.
They are confused about their physical looks not feeling congruent with their sense of self.
Ergo they are likely trans male because of the strong identification with men and disinterest in living as and identifying as female.

Yeah I agree with much of the rest of what you're saying thanks.

Yeah I need a doctor. I mean I know I have the Y chromosomal material but there needs to actually be a diagnosis nd all that to know what exactly happened you know. And also to know if it's like deadly or anything which is of course more concerning than anything tbh. That's why I'm going to my doctor after this study most likely next Tuesday after this one. I have a therapist. But our first visit last two weeks ago I told her my identity was not an issue for me. Bcause it hasn't been and I was hoping it wouldn't be. I guess I'm going to have to tell her the news. I'm ok with my sexuality actually. I've never had any problems with it. I've had relationship problems problems with sex wth guys etc... But not exactly with my sexuality just more with the guy I'm with. But it hasn't been a problem with my bf currently though.

I am not self-diagnosing but it is interesting to read about intersex issues. I just found out intersex awareness day is here in four days.

Quote from: Stephenie S on October 22, 2016, 03:49:30 PM
Well your research is inconclusive and your confusion about what gender to identify with and what sexuality is the main problem that is causing you suffering.
You seem to want an answer as to who you are based on the interpretation of your chromosomes.
I think you need a definitive answer based on a proper analysis of your test results.
You will make yourself more confused trying to figure out that part via anything you find on the internet.
You have already tried that and received conflicting conclusions.
Don't follow the advice of people telling you to check out being nonbinary, chimera or anything else unless you want to be lead down potentially blind alleys.
Work with people whose business is to study and understand this stuff.
Talk to a gender issues experienced therapist if you can to get help with your feelings.
Excuse me for having previously suggested what you are...I don't in fact know and I am sorry if I added to your confusion.

The standard lines.
Sexual preference is who you want to go to bed with.
Gender identity is who you want to go to bed as.

With us it can be a bit more complicated than that. We tend to experience dysphoria which is a discomfort with our body or our social role. In my case, I was mainly uncomfortable with my social role but having a body that matched the feminine role helps me blend it. I am comfortable with a somewhat boyish figure but I wouldn't be comfortable with a strong masculine body.

Transitioning isn't the primary goal of this site though many do. The objective of this site is to discover the role that yo are comfortable in and help you move into it. Some people are comfortable changing presentation and some are comfortable part time. Others like gender fluid or bi gender switch back and forth. The question you need to ask yourself about gender identity is 5 years from now, what do you see your life looking like. You don't need to give us an answer to that and you should take as much time as you want.

everyones an individual , theres certainly a lot of diversity in how someone identifies themselves and how they relate to others and it can get complicated when your trying to look at this all as one when its really a mix of (my biology) (me being a woman or a man) (who I feel attracted to sexually) it seems in your case! but really unless its a problem for you, why make it an issue in the first place? I mean If your born female (regardless of the extra Y ) and its not affecting your function as a female then that in itself is not an issue, if your uncomfortable being born and living as a female then that can be an issue for you that you should pursue in that case. Sexual identity straight, gay? well as it has been clearly defined in previous posts, that would depend on how you see yourself as far as gender identity and being bi shouldn't matter either way! I am using binaries but its also fine not use definitions at all if you feel they constrict who you are! hope you find the answers your looking for!  


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