Quote from: PrincessCrystal on October 25, 2016, 11:56:12 PM
Yes, you should DEFINITELY tell him before you get married.  If he's not understanding, he's not the one.

Well that was the way I felt, when I was dating my fiancé things were going so well I hadn't the need to tell him, then marriage kept getting mentioned, I constantly worried and anxious about telling him, I just felt it was better coming from me than maybe later finding out from some other source, when he proposed marriage I built up the courage and told him over a dinner date, hardest thing I've had to do, his first reaction was shock and surprise, but he was understanding and supportive, we did eventually get married and is now my husband for the past 6 years.
It's your decision Meria, but I'm glad I told him, I never have to worry about it again and he never mentions it, infact these days being a typical husband he is probably more conscious of my cooking and housekeeping skills, my history is not an issue anymore, we're just a ordinary husband and wife, getting on with normal boring life.

Quote from: JMJW on October 26, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
But isn't a transwoman by default having a say in a partner's personal truth if she doesn't tell?

My identity as a woman has nothing to do with the truth of anyone else's personal identity. Well, except perhaps if I'd had biological kids. But I didn't.

If anything, I'd think that coming out as "trans" in this context would be trying to have a say in someone else's personal truth, because that could be construed as queering someone else's sexuality, assuming that "trans" is a queer socially constructed identity, which I think it is.

 While there are no hard numbers on this, anecdotally, the vast majority of cis men don't consider transwomen for long term relationships. So if his personal truth is he doesn't want to consider trans, which is potentially true, if not likely, engaging in a long term romance/sexual relationship without telling him, would be dictating his personal truth.

Quote from: JMJW on October 26, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
While there are no hard numbers on this, anecdotally, the vast majority of cis men don't consider transwomen for long term relationships. So if his personal truth is he doesn't want to consider trans, which is potentially true, if not likely, engaging in a long term romance/sexual relationship without telling him, would be dictating his personal truth.

You're assuming that Meria's personal truth is that she's still trans, or ever really was.  None of us can make that call for her.

And again, who you think you want to date, categorically, isn't what I'd call a personal truth; from what Meria's said, he doesn't sound like a bigot.  And if I grant this hypothetical as a legitimate identity, if bigotry is his personal truth then he is the one who's lying for pretending he's not a bigot. And whether Meria dredges up the past or not probably wouldn't change that.

Quote from: Steph Eigen on October 25, 2016, 12:05:54 PM
There must be hundreds of threads on this site discussion if and when  to disclose gender transition when meeting or dating a potential intimate partner.  This is NOT the same question.   Marriage is a solemn commitment based on complete trust.

Millions of threads on a support site would not make up truth. And marriage is in my mind whatever the betrothed individuals make of it, not what anyone else thinks.

In fact not so long ago the only way people were allowed to transition  explicitly required severing all ties, moving and living forever as female, erasing all traces of one's past. While  Medical history is by law private and probably better protected in Sweden than most places.

Meria, I think you simply need to do what you must. You are female and there are plenty of post op women who choose to keep their past in the past and do so successfully.

As to how to protect your privacy, I can't especially help but I would say get in contact with the US state department and the nearest Swedish embassy and ask them if anything in the immigration / naturalization process would out you.

Best luck and best wishes

You know, the idea that it was just a medical complication when you were younger is kind of making sense to me as a reason...  I don't know how long you're going to be able to keep the secret from him of what those medical issues were, but you really should tell him things like that you are infertile, because that kind of IS his business...

Quote from: PrincessCrystal on October 27, 2016, 08:00:28 AM
You know, the idea that it was just a medical complication when you were younger is kind of making sense to me as a reason...  I don't know how long you're going to be able to keep the secret from him of what those medical issues were, but you really should tell him things like that you are infertile, because that kind of IS his business...

Exactly.  She's always been female, she just had some medical complications that came to a head during puberty. 

And it doesn't have to be terribly explicit -- "My doctors told me I'm infertile, and there's nothing that can be done about it. It's something I really don't like to talk about."  And then go on to say whether she'd still like kids and would be happy to adopt, or if she'd prefer to remain childless, or if she just hasn't decided yet (after all, she's still quite young).

And if the issue is pressed, you can say, "My ovaries failed to develop, and why are you being so horrible about this?  What part of 'I don't like to talk about this' did you fail to understand?"

Given what Meria has told us, I think she can have a very reasonable expectation that no one should ever -- ever -- find out the details of her medical history. 

Quote from: Meria on October 25, 2016, 12:41:54 PM
Thank you all for your replies, it is not that I don't trust him. He has showed himself to be very open about people, and he's the kindest person I've ever met.

I'm the one who's not ready. I just don't feel ready to be open about it with anyone. Even with a soulmate, I still feel like everyone has the right to keep him o her privacy, I never asked anyone for their personal secrets. If I'm supposed to be true to myself, well, this is being true to myself to me, because I don't feel it any other way, if that makes sense to you.

I think the point that many are trying to make isn't so much about now, but the future. How likely do you think your relationship is likely to last? I ask this because I knew when my ex-partner and I got engaged -- and we discussed this -- that we have a fundamental incompatibility that was likely to cause issues in the future. Mainly, they hate change, of any kind, and I am a person for who growth, rebirth, and meaningful change is intrinsic. I told them at the time, I suspected we'd have about ten years, and then we'd go our ways. It was technically 9.5. Close enough.

If you have these feelings about your relationship, then maybe it makes sense not to say anything. If you think -- and I do mean think, not hope, not want, but actually looking at the two of you, how you communicate, what values are important to you, all that sort of thing -- that this is something that may be a very long term or lifetime relationship... then I have a story I have been given permission to share when I feel it could be of help.

TW: Rape. (I do not know the TW policy here, but safe rather than sorry.)

My mother was drugged and date-raped by the friend who was also her lawyer in the divorce between her and her ex. She and my father were dating at the time. She was afraid of how he would react, and more, she was afraid of telling for herself. As far as she was concerned, it was another horrible thing in a very long list of traumas that were far, far worse. I won't go into more detail, but I will say that what my maternal grandmother did to her children would be without question categorized as war crimes if done in a war zone.

So, Mom decided to keep it secret. And she did. For 17yrs.

And then... she just couldn't keep it secret anymore. It was eating her up too much, because she and my father had been together nearly two decades. She loved him. She had two children she was raising with him. Surely he couldn't react that badly?

Oh, why, yes he did. To say that my father is a victim-blaming rape apologist would be too kind. When Mom and I have talked about it, she has said the biggest regret in her life is telling him. Yes, I know it's messed up that the regret isn't marrying him, but ... well, that's another story.

Now, your beloved, from everything you say, is not a complete d-bag like my father. So I would hope he would not react in an abusive fashion. But, you don't have to be abusive to have a negative reaction. Part of my father's reaction was because it was seventeen years before she said anything. I don't think he'd have reacted well in the first place, but it didn't help, because it added feelings of betrayal and distrust into the mix.

So I think my question to you at this point would be: Where do you see yourself in ten, twenty years? If you still see yourself with this person, do you think -- and please, think hard about this -- that you would want to tell him in the future? If so, are you prepared for that he may not have an issue with your history at all, but that not telling for a long time would cause issues in your relationship?

I think that's really something you need to ask yourself if you're okay with. If so, it is absolutely your call. We can't tell you what to do, only offer advice, suggestions, experiences. Again, I wish you all the very best and *hugs* because this can't be any easy decision for anyone.

Quote from: PrincessCrystal on October 27, 2016, 08:00:28 AM
you really should tell him things like that you are infertile, because that kind of IS his business...

I differ on this also. Children may be a common social expectation, however the bearing of children is entirely the woman's choice. The male partner at this point in time in most of the west has rights once he's acknowledged by the law as a parent and up until that time it's entirely her business.

We may be splitting hairs over the OP's thread here but it really is her choice.

I've held secrets in relationship both by intent and by not having perfect self knowledge (can't be forthcoming about things you don't actually know). I've also lived with partners who had stronger senses of privacy than I do. Privacy within relationship is not a deal breaker and could be considered a sign of good boundaries.

Quote from: SadieBlake on October 27, 2016, 04:41:42 PM
I differ on this also. Children may be a common social expectation, however the bearing of children is entirely the woman's choice. The male partner at this point in time in most of the west has rights once he's acknowledged by the law as a parent and up until that time it's entirely her business.

We may be splitting hairs over the OP's thread here but it really is her choice.

I've held secrets in relationship both by intent and by not having perfect self knowledge (can't be forthcoming about things you don't actually know). I've also lived with partners who had stronger senses of privacy than I do. Privacy within relationship is not a deal breaker and could be considered a sign of good boundaries.

I like all this -- and so I'm changing my mind as far as this goes.

Okay, it's his responsibility to say he wants kids, first and foremost.  We're not mind-readers, we can't know what someone else wants. And she can say she doesn't want to bear children. Or, more unequivocably, that she won't bear children. 

I'd be surprised, though, if this isn't a conversation that comes up before marriage. I mean, it's something people talk about, in general, as part of planning a life together. 

Where does that kind of thinking end?

If he asks about kids the way most people do, "Do you want kids?" And she responds "Yes", and then years down the road, do you turn around and say "You just asked if I wanted kids. You didn't ask if I was biologically capable of producing my own". I'm not a mind reader!

So some medical emergency happens to the OP, the doctor asks the husband if she's on any medication, he says no, the doctor operates, and that's it. You're dead. Blood clot.

Just one scenario.

But I'll say this. Just because a man is kind in general, doesn't mean he should be assumed to be kind on this particular issue. People aren't always consistent in character.

Quote from: JMJW on October 28, 2016, 06:58:25 AM
Where does that kind of thinking end?

If he asks about kids the way most people do, "Do you want kids?" And she responds "Yes", and then years down the road, do you turn around and say "You just asked if I wanted kids. You didn't ask if I was biologically capable of producing my own". I'm not a mind reader!

You're kind of bending the scenario.  If he asks "Do you want kids?" now, before marriage, I think it's same to assume he's thinking of making his own, with her.  She can honestly say, "No" or "I don't know" without getting into any medical issues.  If she does want kids, that might be the time to say she's infertile.

What we can't be "mind readers" about is anticipating questions that have yet to be asked.

QuoteSo some medical emergency happens to the OP, the doctor asks the husband if she's on any medication, he says no, the doctor operates, and that's it. You're dead. Blood clot.

If her serum levels of estradiol are normal, this is no more likely than for any other woman.  I'd call this scenario a case of fear-mongering.

What I find so very surprising, though, not just in this thread or on this board, but throughout so much of the community, is the fear of simply being female (or male).  As if this truth isn't true, or isn't deserved, or isn't attainable.  What is it about finally letting go that's so terrifying?

Quote
What we can't be "mind readers" about is anticipating questions that have yet to be asked.

I think the mind reading point only works if it's a difficult or unusual question to anticipate.
I don't see how the question of kids could count as difficult or unusual.

I agree that he would be remiss in not asking, but the response of "I don't know" is dishonest. If the question is being understood as making his own kids with her, then of course she does know.

QuoteIf her serum levels of estradiol are normal, this is no more likely than for any other woman.  I'd call this scenario a case of fear-mongering.

Not sure why you think I'd want to fear monger, but no, it is more likely. 
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=73662.0
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14670164

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775642/

Such research is done on older women, comparing women with low-serum estrogens (they aren't making any more themselves) to women who are getting hormone therapy.  Furthermore, there's a strong correlation with thromembolic events in older women who are overweight or obese. 

There aren't studies on young women, because very few young women need HT in the first place, and the comparison to other young women with normal serum levels would predictably have negligible results.  Of course having more estrogen in your system leads to more clotting events -- E levels skyrocket in pregnancy precisely for this reason, to prevent bleeding to death in childbirth. 

And all this said, the overall risk is still minimal -- the vast majority of older heavy women taking HT aren't going to throw a clot. 

Meria is young.  What's important is to stay fit.

Quote from: JMJW on October 28, 2016, 06:58:25 AMBut I'll say this. Just because a man is kind in general, doesn't mean he should be assumed to be kind on this particular issue. People aren't always consistent in character.

Yet another reason not to disclose -- disclosure guarantees 100% the opening of your narrative, and if he's not kind then the consequences are not good.

Nondisclosure necessarily reduces that percentage -- and in Meria's case, I'd say the odds are greatly in her favor that her narrative stays closed forever. 

Again, I'm really surprised that there's such pushback against someone's legitimate choice!

The study I linked to mentioned oral contraceptives. So pre menopausal women.

The bottom line is it depends if it's orally administered. if it is by pills, the risk is 2-4x as high because of the liver's first pass effect.

If she's pinning or taking patches that risk is alot better, but they can leave marks on the body. Which he could potentially find. 

     

QuoteI'd say the odds are greatly in her favor that her narrative stays closed forever.

I've seen other conversations on this issue, and the guy always gets underestimated.   

The idea that was mentioned earlier, that he'll ask about kids, she'll say she can't have any, and that she doesn't want to talk about it, and that he will let that go. I think he will probably want to know what's going on and ask that she get examined to see if anything can be done. If she refuses to take him along - her husband-  or otherwise shuts him out in some way, do you think he won't figure something's up? 

If he mentions it to his guy friends, the odds are really so against one of them saying maybe she's trans? In Sweden?!

One thing I greatly underestimated in my serious relationships was the sexual aspect for the other person. I didn't feel it in the same way, and I assumed they didn't think it was highly important, i.e. that they would care more about the person than the gender or the sex.

Turns out not to have been the case, gender was very important to the two cis males I have been in long-term serious relationships with. Not more important than the person but AS important.

Just as other people probably shouldn't presume about us, we should not presume about them and what they want. Some men really do want kids, and to be able to have them with the person they're going to spend their life with. If that hadn't been discussed by the OP as yet, I'd hope she would do so with her partner before going any further. I didn't realize just how much sex and kids can be important to some people, the same could happen to anyone here if they do not disclose the fact they can't have kids, etc.

A person has full power over how they choose to express themselves and their "truth", but I'm fairly sure most cis men would not appreciate this idea that not having told them one was trans meant one wasn't 'queering' their reality. They're only going to care that you either did or did not tell them, and what that says about the level of trust involved.

Maybe it's just me but I would prefer an acceptance of my situation rather than needing to keep it a buried secret; just from a peace of mind standpoint. Otherwise the idea of it possibly being discovered would constantly hang over my head.

Hello everyone. I've been reading your responses since day one, and I've pondered a lot about it. The reason I was silent up until right now it's because I've gave a lot of thought to each one of your responses. It was interesting for me to read the different opinions as it helped me to make my mind.
Thank you so much for your feedback, and for your heartfelt advices, I understand them perfectly fine, even if I still feel like I'm not supposed to say anything.

Sophia Sage got it right, there's no one in my background that could show up and speak about that... And even more impossible if I go to another country. Sounds like heaven to me.

As for the kids, this is a conversation that we had already long ago when we were getting to know each other better. Neither of us want children, I've made myself clear that it's not in my plans, and explained that to him early on. He said that he also doesn't want children, and that he doesn't need them to be happy as long as we can be together. Later on, I confessed to him that I was so closed to the idea not because I didn't feel it, but rather because I'm unable to carry children. I told him I was born with medical issues and that I'm infertile, that I need to do a treatment and he didn't want to dig much in the topic. 

Quote from: Meria on October 28, 2016, 10:15:49 PMSounds like heaven to me.

Have a truly beautiful life, Meria, and always stay true to yourself!  Enjoy heaven.  This can be like death and rebirth, and from rebirth we can taste heaven on earth.  And then you may realize, what you've looked forward to has already come.

Something fun: Learn Swedish. Learn it really well, and get the accent down impeccably. Trust me on this.

Yours, Sophie

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 29, 2016, 12:26:08 AM
Something fun: Learn Swedish. Learn it really well, and get the accent down impeccably. Trust me on this.

You got me all curious now, Sophie! Why is that? 

In this day and age of oppressive government,  Big Data, cheap storage, and Iron Mountain, there is no such thing as "Deep Stealth". You have a vast legal, as in part of "The Public Record", bread crumb trail back to your birth. Also in this day and age about every employer wants a criminal background check which many background checks include names or aliases used in the past.

My wife was essentially deep stealth having transitioned back in the late 1970's. For a good 30 years the name from the past was never seen. Amazingly somehow it has occasionally popped up! Not a big thing to me since we go back really really far. Naturally, freaky to us both how it has.

One, "If we had the money" dream is hiring some detective agency to dig and dig deep. A simpler, probably cheaper is some on-line background checker.